The Blues

[Chesterton]

I'll be honest Tinker...I never really understood what qualifies a song as "blues".

lol, this sounds like the premise for a good blues song!

"Sit down here, son, and lemme tells ya 'bout da blues."

 

[Ana the Ist]

lol, this sounds like the premise for a good blues song!

"Sit down here, son, and lemme tells ya 'bout da blues."

Is it entirely thematic? Must there be mention of a train? What is the divide between blues and folk...and rock?

 

[Chesterton]

Is it entirely thematic? Must there be mention of a train? What is the divide between blues and folk...and rock?

You must be blind, or have the last name "King".

Well seriously, I guess it's just the "flavors" in the sounds, like you know cinnamon when you taste it, you know C&W when you hear it, you know heavy metal when you hear it, etc. If you want to analyze it there is the basic I, IV, V chord progression which is shared in lots of American popular music, so on that level it's all very much the same. But the end result is pretty different depending on the way the instruments sound, the way the singer sings, and like you say, the subject matter of the lyrics. But yeah things get blurred, and you know there are serious rock and roll aficionados who to this day argue over what the first rock and roll song was; one will say it's one song and another guy says "no, that's a blues song" or a rhythm and blues song. Big Mama did "Hound Dog" and it was a blues, Elvis did it as rock and roll. But generally I guess it's like obscenity, you just know it when you see it, lol.

Then there are little things which might be just accepted by tradition, I don't know. But there seems to be some guitar players in this thread, and some of us can hear small guitar "licks", maybe even just two or three notes together, and go "ah that's a blues lick" or "that's a country lick". Which is really interesting I think. Is it just accepted as tradition that blues players always play the lick and that makes it blues by association, OR is there something inherently bluesy in the lick itself? lol deep philosophical questions here.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You must be blind, or have the last name "King".

Well seriously, I guess it's just the "flavors" in the sounds, like you know cinnamon when you taste it, you know C&W when you hear it, you know heavy metal when you hear it, etc. If you want to analyze it there is the basic I, IV, V chord progression which is shared in lots of American popular music, so on that level it's all very much the same. But the end result is pretty different depending on the way the instruments sound, the way the singer sings, and like you say, the subject matter of the lyrics. But yeah things get blurred, and you know there are serious rock and roll aficionados who to this day argue over what the first rock and roll song was; one will say it's one song and another guy says "no, that's a blues song" or a rhythm and blues song. Big Mama did "Hound Dog" and it was a blues, Elvis did it as rock and roll. But generally I guess it's like obscenity, you just know it when you see it, lol.

Then there are little things which might be just accepted by tradition, I don't know. But there seems to be some guitar players in this thread, and some of us can hear small guitar "licks", maybe even just two or three notes together, and go "ah that's a blues lick" or "that's a country lick". Which is really interesting I think. Is it just accepted as tradition that blues players always play the lick and that makes it blues by association, OR is there something inherently bluesy in the lick itself? lol deep philosophical questions here.

You hear people talk about the blues as if all rock and all of its derivatives are just a rip off of "the blues"....and yet those same people probably couldn't nail down what the blues even are...

I understand what you mean about the chord progression...but only in certain keys only in certain time signatures. Otherwise, I doubt I'd know a blues "lick" from a rock, metal, folk, punk, or any other subgenre for that matter.

 

[jayem]

You must be blind, or have the last name "King".

Well seriously, I guess it's just the "flavors" in the sounds, like you know cinnamon when you taste it, you know C&W when you hear it, you know heavy metal when you hear it, etc. If you want to analyze it there is the basic I, IV, V chord progression which is shared in lots of American popular music, so on that level it's all very much the same. But the end result is pretty different depending on the way the instruments sound, the way the singer sings, and like you say, the subject matter of the lyrics. But yeah things get blurred, and you know there are serious rock and roll aficionados who to this day argue over what the first rock and roll song was; one will say it's one song and another guy says "no, that's a blues song" or a rhythm and blues song. Big Mama did "Hound Dog" and it was a blues, Elvis did it as rock and roll. But generally I guess it's like obscenity, you just know it when you see it, lol.

Then there are little things which might be just accepted by tradition, I don't know. But there seems to be some guitar players in this thread, and some of us can hear small guitar "licks", maybe even just two or three notes together, and go "ah that's a blues lick" or "that's a country lick". Which is really interesting I think. Is it just accepted as tradition that blues players always play the lick and that makes it blues by association, OR is there something inherently bluesy in the lick itself? lol deep philosophical questions here.

I know only a little about music theory. But I know the "classic" blues melody has a 12 bar structure--3 lines of 4 bars each in 4/4 time. Each bar in the 1st line is harmonized on the tonic chord (I). The first 2 bars of the second line are on the subdominant (IV). The next 2 bars return to the tonic. In the last line, the 1st bar is on the dominant chord (V), the 2nd bar on the subdominant, the 3rd bar on the tonic, and the last bar ends the melody back on the dominant.

This can vary, because improvisation during performance is pretty much standard. And also common are the "blue notes." Where the performer flattens the pitch of a note slightly. Which gives the music that "bluesy" quality.

 

[Chesterton]

You hear people talk about the blues as if all rock and all of its derivatives are just a rip off of "the blues"....and yet those same people probably couldn't nail down what the blues even are...

Well everything gets influenced by what came before, I don't think it's fair to say "rip off". Blues also had to have been influenced by other stuff going on in America.

Otherwise, I doubt I'd know a blues "lick" from a rock, metal, folk, punk, or any other subgenre for that matter.

I suspect you probably would know much of the time, even if you've never given it much thought.

 

[Chesterton]

Cool harmonica, cool song, albeit another one about beating your wife/girlfriend.

 

[Dave-W]

I understand what you mean about the chord progression...but only in certain keys only in certain time signatures.

The "St Louis Blues" was written in G minor.

 

[HereIStand]

 

[HereIStand]

Great early 60s guitar. Sadly, Ike is famous for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Chesterton]

Great early 60s guitar. Sadly, Ike is famous for all the wrong reasons.

Yeah see, IMO that sounds almost 100% RnR. Ike also did this earlier song which some credit as the first RnR song.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Some more old stuff (1930)

 

[Tinker Grey]

Blues Woman from the 30's (Be careful what you search for; these days she's remembered for raunchy tunes that never got released.)

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well everything gets influenced by what came before, I don't think it's fair to say "rip off". Blues also had to have been influenced by other stuff going on in America.

I suspect you probably would know much of the time, even if you've never given it much thought.

Alright...here's a song that I wouldn't be able to classify clearly. Beginning 2/3 clearly sounds like blues to me...last third more rock since the drums come in and electric guitar takes over...but since you seem to "know" tell me if it's mainly blues or not...

Dax Riggs Demon Tied to a Chair in My Brain:

 

[Dave-W]

Yeah see, IMO that sounds almost 100% RnR. Ike also did this earlier song which some credit as the first RnR song.

That song was written and recorded in 1951.

Two years earlier (1949) this song was recorded:

 

[HereIStand]

Phil Guy (brother of Buddy)

 

[Chesterton]

Alright...here's a song that I wouldn't be able to classify clearly. Beginning 2/3 clearly sounds like blues to me...last third more rock since the drums come in and electric guitar takes over...but since you seem to "know" tell me if it's mainly blues or not...

Dax Riggs Demon Tied to a Chair in My Brain:

Sounds like folk to me. If the guitar was all acoustic it'd be a folk song, possibly a country ballad. But I'd say folk because the vocal phrasing is very slightly reminiscent of "Blowin' In The Wind".

 

[Chesterton]

Some more old stuff (1930)

That tune sounds a bit like this one, which was recorded in the '60's, but is said to be a real old African American spiritual. Both pretty cool.

 

[Tinker Grey]

That tune sounds a bit like this one, which was recorded in the '60's, but is said to be a real old African American spiritual. Both pretty cool.

I like him quite a bit.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Here's another with the same title (depending on how you look it up) but very different tone: