The Bird in Hand Wager

[placebo2]

I've read some posts in the Christian Forums where the members are looking forward to death- anxious to get their eternal reward so to speak. I wonder why more Christians do not have that same attitude. My theory is a take-off on the argument that is presented many times to atheists. The "what if you're wrong" theory (aka Pascal's Wager). For those not familiar with the argument it goes like this:​

PASCAL's WAGER​

[size=+1]"It makes more sense to believe in God than to not believe. If you believe, and God exists, you will be rewarded in the afterlife. If you do not believe, and He exists, you will be punished for your disbelief. If He does not exist, you have lost nothing either way. ...[/size]It amounts to hedging your bets."

Quoted From: http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.html
You can follow the above link for a presentation of the flaws in Pascal's Wager.

The BIRD in HAND WAGER​

Let's call my theory the Bird in Hand Wager. When I hear Christians excitedly talk of the eternal bliss that awaits them in the afterlife I'm surprised that I do not see more eagerness to begin the journey. Instead, I see Christians clinging to every last moment here on earth. I think that most Christians, if they really believed in their version of the afterlife, would behave differently. I think that most Christians, if they truly believed in Christ's message, would not be so addicted to material things. That they could not live so "wealthy" while so much of the world lives in poverty. That they would not spend money on more than just basic food, dress and shelter. That they would share their good fortune with those less fortunate. That they would not commit so many of the everyday sins that they could so easily avoid. That they would not just recite, but practice the Ten Commandments every day of their life. That they would love fellow man and let God be the one to judge who is to be punished. In short, why don't Christians pattern their lives after Jesus?

However, I think most Christians are "hedging their bets." Just in case this afterlife concept doesn't materialize Christians are trying to get every last bit of earthly pleasure that they can trick their conscience into allowing. In short, most Christians want to experience happiness and enjoy life, and like everyone else, get more than their fair share. And just in case heaven exists, they've got some loopholes that let them gorge themselves while on earth, accept Jesus as savior, and continue their journey after the last breath.

 

[merryheart]

I've read some posts in the Christian Forums where the members are looking forward to death- anxious to get their eternal reward so to speak. I wonder why more Christians do not have that same attitude. My theory is a take-off on the argument that is presented many times to atheists. The "what if you're wrong" theory (aka Pascal's Wager). For those not familiar with the argument it goes like this:​

PASCAL's WAGER​

[size=+1]"It makes more sense to believe in God than to not believe. If you believe, and God exists, you will be rewarded in the afterlife. If you do not believe, and He exists, you will be punished for your disbelief. If He does not exist, you have lost nothing either way. ...[/size]It amounts to hedging your bets."

Quoted From: http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.html
You can follow the above link for a presentation of the flaws in Pascal's Wager.

The BIRD in HAND WAGER​

Let's call my theory the Bird in Hand Wager. When I hear Christians excitedly talk of the eternal bliss that awaits them in the afterlife I'm surprised that I do not see more eagerness to begin the journey. Instead, I see Christians clinging to every last moment here on earth. I think that most Christians, if they really believed in their version of the afterlife, would behave differently. I think that most Christians, if they truly believed in Christ's message, would not be so addicted to material things. That they could not live so "wealthy" while so much of the world lives in poverty. That they would not spend money on more than just basic food, dress and shelter. That they would share their good fortune with those less fortunate. That they would not commit so many of the everyday sins that they could so easily avoid. That they would not just recite, but practice the Ten Commandments every day of their life. That they would love fellow man and let God be the one to judge who is to be punished. In short, why don't Christians pattern their lives after Jesus?

However, I think most Christians are "hedging their bets." Just in case this afterlife concept doesn't materialize Christians are trying to get every last bit of earthly pleasure that they can trick their conscience into allowing. In short, most Christians want to experience happiness and enjoy life, and like everyone else, get more than their fair share. And just in case heaven exists, they've got some loopholes that let them gorge themselves while on earth, accept Jesus as savior, and continue their journey after the last breath.

Yep, I think you hit the nail on the head. Pretty scary.

 

[CrownCaster]

I've read some posts in the Christian Forums where the members are looking forward to death- anxious to get their eternal reward so to speak. I wonder why more Christians do not have that same attitude. My theory is a take-off on the argument that is presented many times to atheists. The "what if you're wrong" theory (aka Pascal's Wager). For those not familiar with the argument it goes like this:​

PASCAL's WAGER​

[size=+1]"It makes more sense to believe in God than to not believe. If you believe, and God exists, you will be rewarded in the afterlife. If you do not believe, and He exists, you will be punished for your disbelief. If He does not exist, you have lost nothing either way. ...[/size]It amounts to hedging your bets."

Quoted From: http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.html
You can follow the above link for a presentation of the flaws in Pascal's Wager.

The BIRD in HAND WAGER​

Let's call my theory the Bird in Hand Wager. When I hear Christians excitedly talk of the eternal bliss that awaits them in the afterlife I'm surprised that I do not see more eagerness to begin the journey. Instead, I see Christians clinging to every last moment here on earth. I think that most Christians, if they really believed in their version of the afterlife, would behave differently. I think that most Christians, if they truly believed in Christ's message, would not be so addicted to material things. That they could not live so "wealthy" while so much of the world lives in poverty. That they would not spend money on more than just basic food, dress and shelter. That they would share their good fortune with those less fortunate. That they would not commit so many of the everyday sins that they could so easily avoid. That they would not just recite, but practice the Ten Commandments every day of their life. That they would love fellow man and let God be the one to judge who is to be punished. In short, why don't Christians pattern their lives after Jesus?

However, I think most Christians are "hedging their bets." Just in case this afterlife concept doesn't materialize Christians are trying to get every last bit of earthly pleasure that they can trick their conscience into allowing. In short, most Christians want to experience happiness and enjoy life, and like everyone else, get more than their fair share. And just in case heaven exists, they've got some loopholes that let them gorge themselves while on earth, accept Jesus as savior, and continue their journey after the last breath.

I would disagree with your "most" but I am sure it fits with some. Unfortunately, even if we are saved, we are still human and subject to temptation and desire. I for one love my life. I enjoy being around the people I love and watching my daughter grow. Sometimes I get wrapped up in material things but I try to not let this ever take center stage. Sometimes I am not successful. I do look forward to heaven and if God were to decide it was time, I would go and see him and be happy. However, I see life as a gift also and will live it fully.

 

[GreenDragon]

The reason I behave the way I do (i.e. living life) is because I want to enjoy the time I have here. I'm sure heaven is great and all that, but life here should be very different, and I want to enjoy it as best I can. I plan on "trying everything once".

 

[CrownCaster]

The reason I behave the way I do (i.e. living life) is because I want to enjoy the time I have here. I'm sure heaven is great and all that, but life here should be very different, and I want to enjoy it as best I can. I plan on "trying everything once".

Please don't try "everything" once. Some things just don't need to be given the time of day. Stay focused on Jesus and enjoy life to it's fullest though, knowing your reward awaits you.

 

[Madcoil]

The BIRD in HAND WAGER​

Let's call my theory the Bird in Hand Wager. When I hear Christians excitedly talk of the eternal bliss that awaits them in the afterlife I'm surprised that I do not see more eagerness to begin the journey. Instead, I see Christians clinging to every last moment here on earth. I think that most Christians, if they really believed in their version of the afterlife, would behave differently. I think that most Christians, if they truly believed in Christ's message, would not be so addicted to material things. That they could not live so "wealthy" while so much of the world lives in poverty. That they would not spend money on more than just basic food, dress and shelter. That they would share their good fortune with those less fortunate. That they would not commit so many of the everyday sins that they could so easily avoid. That they would not just recite, but practice the Ten Commandments every day of their life. That they would love fellow man and let God be the one to judge who is to be punished. In short, why don't Christians pattern their lives after Jesus?

However, I think most Christians are "hedging their bets." Just in case this afterlife concept doesn't materialize Christians are trying to get every last bit of earthly pleasure that they can trick their conscience into allowing. In short, most Christians want to experience happiness and enjoy life, and like everyone else, get more than their fair share. And just in case heaven exists, they've got some loopholes that let them gorge themselves while on earth, accept Jesus as savior, and continue their journey after the last breath.

On the other hand (ah-hah!), no matter how religious you are, you are not impervious to the incluences of society. And todays society is materialistic. Thus, it breed materialistic people, materialistic values and so on and so forth. Additionally, let us not forget that most base driving force of ours, greed. Being a christian won't make you perfect, far from it. Very far.

 

[Madcoil]

Please don't try "everything" once. Some things just don't need to be given the time of day. Stay focused on Jesus and enjoy life to it's fullest though, knowing your reward awaits you.

Whoa, whoa. Reward? Reward for what? For living life to it's fullest? I didn't know you got thrown a bone for enjoying a steak...

 

[Mish]

OK, to be honest, I think the reason most people don't look forward to death is that it is scary and unknown.

Plus this:

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, so that through my being with you again your joy in Christ Jesus will overflow on account of me.

 

[CrownCaster]

Whoa, whoa. Reward? Reward for what? For living life to it's fullest? I didn't know you got thrown a bone for enjoying a steak...

A life lived in the light of Jesus is a life lived fully. If we keep our eye on Him, we will do what is pleasing to Him and yes, there is a reward of eternal life waiting all those who are His.

 

[Subordinationist]

I look forward to death, and to Heaven. For me, death isn't some scary thing, or a failure, or "The End". It is the beginning. I hope to live to be at least 60 years young, with good health, and then be brutally murdered as a martyr in some anti-Christian country (who knows, by the time I'm old, it might be THIS country!), helping the poor, saving souls, and helping the church grow.

Jesus is just so much more important to me than endless sex and money and power and popularity, and "being happy" or "living a good life" or "watching my children grow up" or "feeling good about my life". Even if I had to give up knowledge and wisdom and logic, for Christ, I would do it. Eternal life with my best friend is more important than winning arguments or "being right".


"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."
1 Corinthians 2:2



.

 

[placebo2]

I look forward to death, and to Heaven. For me, death isn't some scary thing, or a failure, or "The End". It is the beginning. ...

... Jesus is just so much more important to me than endless sex and money and power and popularity, and "being happy" or "living a good life" or "watching my children grow up" or "feeling good about my life". ...

[Note: emphasis added]

Should I be happy or sad for children that die before they are old enough to reject Jesus and jeopardize their trip to heaven.

 

[Subordinationist]

[Note: emphasis added]

Should I be happy or sad for children that die before they are old enough to reject Jesus and jeopardize their trip to heaven.

You can be whatever you want to be.

"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."
Matthew 19:29



.

 

[placebo2]

Are you happy or sad for children that die before they are old enough to reject Jesus and jeopardize their trip to heaven?

 

[kedaman]

I'm surprised that I do not see more eagerness to begin the journey. Instead, I see Christians clinging to every last moment here on earth.

The glasses you wear only show the hypocrites and the only evidence you have that Christians really do these things consists exclusively of faith. Ask yourself, how can you really trust someone no matter how trustworthy they seem? The benefit in appearing trustworthy you know, is that you can backstab them when they least expect it. By faith, trust becomes irrelevant, because the strategy to maximize material wealth is known to fail 100% of the time.

 

[placebo2]

The glasses you wear only show the hypocrites and the only evidence you have that Christians really do these things consists exclusively of faith. Ask yourself, how can you really trust someone no matter how trustworthy they seem? The benefit in appearing trustworthy you know, is that you can backstab them when they least expect it. By faith, trust becomes irrelevant, because the strategy to maximize material wealth is known to fail 100% of the time.

I don't understand your point. Remember, I don't read too fast, so please write slower.

 

[The-Doctor]

I think Kiggeuard (Hopefully spelt right) had a good idea. He something along the lines of faith nor relying on logic or reason. Whilst I have no proof there is an afterlife I have faith in my God. A place in Heaven has to be earned I dont think you just do one good thing to earn it. You have to live the christian life, no matter how hard that seems. Whilst I am a christian I know that I fall short in God's eyes and will try to do His will.

Bottom line whether or not there is an after life, if someone does good in the world because of what they believe then thats better than doing evil.

I refer you to my signature as a final point.

 

[The-Doctor]

I think Kiggeuard (Hopefully spelt right) had a good idea. He something along the lines of faith nor relying on logic or reason. Whilst I have no proof there is an afterlife I have faith in my God. A place in Heaven has to be earned I dont think you just do one good thing to earn it. You have to live the christian life, no matter how hard that seems. Whilst I am a christian I know that I fall short in God's eyes and will try to do His will.

Bottom line whether or not there is an after life, if someone does good in the world because of what they believe then thats better than doing evil.

I refer you to my signature as a final point.

 

[kedaman]

I don't understand your point. Remember, I don't read too fast, so please write slower.

Ok, how do you observe eagerness?