The Biblical view of homosexuality

[pescador]

Paul was certainly not perfect. Further, most of Paul's writings needs to be read in their original intention. He was writing to specific people and churches, churches with specific problems that need to be understood in the context of the 1st century and Judaism. Not everything he wrote is applicable to all places and all times.

This is a great post!! Paul's specific instructions to ancient churches are relevant to the social mores of those particular communities. People try to apply them to the Western world as though we still live that way. We don't. We are supposed to be guided by the Spirit and not turn Paul's writings into New Covenant law. We are not under law but under grace.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I am the parent of a college age daughter who was raised in a LCMS Christian church. In the last several years she has drifted away from her faith primarily due to the churches stance on homosexuality. She sees how the evangelical church in general treats homosexuals and rejects them. Often they are rejected by their own family. I am agents this and love everyone as Jesus taught us to do. However the church teaches that although we are to Love all, we can not condone behavior the Bible clearly says is wrong.This is where I'm completely confused. When I read the verses in the bible mentioning homosexuality, it seems pretty clear that it's very much against it and it is wrong. I dont understand why but that is what it says. I know there is a belief among progressive christians that this is a misunderstanding and it means something else. I would love to believe that but all of the verses Old and new testament say it is a sin. I want to understand. I was hoping someone can explain to me the case for homosexuality not being a sin. I really do want to understand. I've read some posts on here regarding this but it seemed so complicated and confusing and hard to interpret. Can someone explain to me in lay simpler terms how those verses do not consider homosexuality an abomination? I truly would love to understand so I can better talk to my daughter. I dont want her to reject Christianity because of this. She loves her friends gay and straight and can not accept a faith that rejects them. Thank you so much. I look forward to your replies

The way the bible teaches, is that lust is missing the mark.

If somehow burning with passion upon someone with your eyes (Matthew 5:28) does not equate to intercourse with them, then perhaps everything is okay. Jesus did not speak specifically about homosexuality, but did speak about the heart of lust and how it affected our inner beings.

I recall that treating one type of lust preferentially compared to another type is showing favoritism which the bible does say is missing the mark. Since God does not show favoritism.

I've noticed in a lot of church contexts, homosexuality is treated like an infectious disease. The preferential treatment illustrated in this is missing the mark.

I would also say, lying to someone about something when they can independently verify it for themselves, could have an adverse and unpredictable effect that might effect your relationship because trust is really important.

Since the new covenant is not about law but about trust and service, the main reason missing the mark is worth noting is the harm it causes. The thing about lust related activities, is that they affect the invisible part of the person - so being able to say, "this is the harm that is being caused, it's obvious - so stop hurting yourself." is not so evident for these type of activities that miss the mark.

 

[SkyWriting]

I am the parent of a college age daughter who was raised in a LCMS Christian church. In the last several years she has drifted away from her faith primarily due to the churches stance on homosexuality. She sees how the evangelical church in general treats homosexuals and rejects them. Often they are rejected by their own family. I am agents this and love everyone as Jesus taught us to do. However the church teaches that although we are to Love all, we can not condone behavior the Bible clearly says is wrong.

Actually it says you may not judge the behavior of other people. But people love to do that.
The church taking a stand against sexual preference is no different from the church taking a stand against cheating at cards or being angry in traffic or rolling through a stop sign.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Actually it says you may not judge the behavior of other people. But people love to do that.
The church taking a stand against sexual preference is no different from the church taking a stand against cheating at cards or being angry in traffic or rolling through a stop sign.

The church should have nothing to say to the world. It should be making it clear what disqualifies a Christian from entering God's kingdom. Homosexuality is one of those sinful lifestyles.
While sin is sin, the consequences of some are worse than others. Getting drunk, driving and causing an accident is worse than a fine for not stopping at a stop sign.

 

[SkyWriting]

The church should have nothing to say to the world. It should be making it clear what disqualifies a Christian from entering God's kingdom. Homosexuality is one of those sinful lifestyles. While sin is sin, the consequences of some are worse than others. Getting drunk, driving and causing an accident is worse than a fine for not stopping at a stop sign.

Having a lifestyle of inhospitality or haughtiness is worse than Sodom, says the scriptures. I personally have a adopted an "Even Keel" opinion on the various levels of sin and consider even the smallest sins to be worthy of death.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

 

[SkyWriting]

The church should have nothing to say to the world. It should be making it clear what disqualifies a Christian from entering God's kingdom.

Being haughty and higher than humble, the main ones. Trying to be judgmental adults instead of being as little children.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Having a lifestyle of inhospitality or haughtiness is worse than Sodom, says the scriptures. I personally have a adopted an "Even Keel" opinion on the various levels of sin and consider even the smallest sins to be worthy of death.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

I agree. However, in this life there are different consequences. I lost a friend to AIDS. That's somewhat more of a problem than getting a speeding ticket. He lost his licence for careless driving once. I was glad, he was perhaps the worst driver I've ever known. But AIDS.......... Yes, he was homosexual. I did not know when I knew him. He emigrated to the US, went to Bible College, married, two kids - all seemed pretty good. For some reason he backslid and went back to his old way of life. God forgave him, but he reaped what he sowed.

 

[SkyWriting]

I agree. However, in this life there are different consequences. I lost a friend to AIDS. That's somewhat more of a problem than getting a speeding ticket.

No, it's not. Driving is the #1 most dangerous activity you can do. Worse than humping. I've lost far more neighbors due to drugs and alcohol than their sexual preferences. Granted, I've never seen my gay neighbors having sex, but that goes for the rest of the neighbors as well.

It's none of our business. And we are only imagining what is not our business, anyway.
Let's focus on Pedophile priests.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Being haughty and higher than humble, the main ones. Trying to be judgmental adults instead of being as little children.

We are required to judge believers, not in the sense of a court but in the sense of discerning. A doctor could be called judgemental for pointing out that you have a physical condition. No, he's trying to make you well. A coach may point to a defect in a player's technique. It's not judgemental, he's trying to help the player improve.

The gospel is of the Kingdom. There are attitudes and lifestyles that disqualify a Christian from the Kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 states what they are. It is not to do with heaven or hell. That is settled the moment a person is born again. Where a person appears in God's kingdom is determined at the end of their time on earth. Those who choose to cling to sin and self, will miss out on God's rewards. Those who choose to forsake their self will in favour of God's will are rewarded.

 

[Aussie Pete]

No, it's not. Driving is the #1 most dangerous activity you can do. Worse than humping. I've lost far more neighbors due to drugs and alcohol than their sexual preferences. Granted, I've never seen my gay neighbors having sex, but that goes for the rest of the neighbors as well.

It's none of our business. And we are only imagining what is not our business, anyway.
Let's focus on Pedophile priests.

As I've said, the world is none of our business. Sinners are sinners, as you've said. I object to gay marriage for the same reason I would object to a law that said my cat is a dog. It just isn't! The question for Christians is whether or not the Kingdom of God is their priority. From what I hear and read, not so many are asking that question.

 

[SkyWriting]

As I've said, the world is none of our business.

Then you misspoke.

John 3:16
“For God so loved
the world,
that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.



Philippians 2:4
Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

Proverbs 22:9
Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.

1 John 3:17
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?



Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Romans 15:2
Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.

Proverbs 3:29
Do not plan evil against your neighbor, who dwells trustingly beside you.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Luke 10:27
And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Matthew 19:19
Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Leviticus 19:18
You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Leviticus 19:16-18
You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life of your neighbor: I am the Lord. “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Galatians 6:10
So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

This is a great post!! Paul's specific instructions to ancient churches are relevant to the social mores of those particular communities. People try to apply them to the Western world as though we still live that way. We don't. We are supposed to be guided by the Spirit and not turn Paul's writings into New Covenant law. We are not under law but under grace.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

[SkyWriting]

As I've said, the world is none of our business. Sinners are sinners, as you've said.

Proverbs 14:21
Whoever despises his neighbor is a sinner, but blessed is he who is generous to the poor.

 

[SkyWriting]

The question for Christians is whether or not the Kingdom of God is their priority.

Because we love God, therefore we love our neighbors.

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

 

[hedrick]

2 Timothy 3:16-17

I suspect the majority view in this forum would be that 2 Tim is not actually by Paul, and thus is suspect. But even if it is, being "useful" is far from being error-free.

 

[SkyWriting]

... for the same reason I would object to a law that said my cat is a dog. It just isn't!

Too bad for you then.


Romans 13:1
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

 

[SkyWriting]

I suspect the majority view in this forum would be that 2 Tim is not actually by Paul, and thus is suspect. But even if it is, being "useful" is far from being error-free.

Spiritually the entire Bible is perfect and error free. Lots of physical details are as fuzzy as any humans memory or ability to communicate flawlessly.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

I suspect the majority view in this forum would be that 2 Tim is not actually by Paul, and thus is suspect. But even if it is, being "useful" is far from being error-free.

Everyone is free to their opinion, but there is only one reality.

 

[hedrick]

Everyone is free to their opinion, but there is only one reality.

Yup,

 

[SkyWriting]

Everyone is free to their opinion, but there is only one reality.

When it comes to History, there are as many versions of reality as there are witnesses to it. Thank the Lord if any two versions are similar. Even so, the author of an event might remember that they wrote something, then suddenly recall that half of what they wrote, they heard from somebody else. Or, somebody could write down events, and second person edit the results.