The Biblical Creation myth and science

[theseed]

There should be no issue about the sunlight, since it says that God provided light before then.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Absolute zero??? That is not possible to achieve. Absolute zero means nothings moves, everything is frozen...

Right on, Jack! Nothing moves. Perhaps not an absolute zero, but so close that the difference hardly matters, because life cannot survive (or form in the first place) under such conditions. Take a look at the planet Neptune, will ya? Frozen gases, right to the core. Even WITH the sun being there, it gets pretty cold once you cross a certain threshold. Life is just possible withing a comparatively small girdle that circles the sun. A little nearer, and you get conditions like on Venus - a little too far, say beyond Mars, and everything's frozen.

Life does not depend on light. Creatures at the bottom of the ocean never even see any light, but they still live...

They wouldn't live if there was no sun to keep the water warm enough to remain liquid. And that's what the sun does. And furthermore - as already mentioned - there wouldn't be the planet Earth in the first place if there wasn't the gravitational center of the Sun.

And light doesn't necessarily mean heat...

Nope, but the sun means light and heat and gravitation. And it is quintessential in order to produce life.

 

[Jack_Racz]

Take a look at the planet Neptune, will ya? Frozen gases, right to the core. Even WITH the sun being there, it gets pretty cold once you cross a certain threshold.

Neptune isn't near absolute zero... it has an atmosphere, and we don't know what the surface looks like. http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/planets/neptune/atmosphere.shtml

Life is just possible withing a comparatively small girdle that circles the sun.

Agreed, not part of the discussion.

They wouldn't live if there was no sun to keep the water warm enough to remain liquid. And that's what the sun does.

Deep waters are heated by vents from the center of the earth, not from the sun. That's if they are heated at all... Off topic question, what happen to all sea life during the ice age? Did they die when large parts of the sea's froze?

And furthermore - as already mentioned - there wouldn't be the planet Earth in the first place if there wasn't the gravitational center of the Sun.

What does the sun's particular gravity have to do with the creation of the earth? Don't take this as an attack, but I have a specific gravity, does that mean I helped create somethings after I was born? Of course not... If the sun's gravity had anything to do with the creation of the planet the planet would have been pulled closer to the sun, as would every other planet. The sun ahd no part in the creation of the planet earth with the exception of our orbital path.

I still don't see how gravity has anything to do with life.

 

[theseed]

I still don't see how gravity has anything to do with life.

It does in regards to the moon, the tidal waves it makes, allows life to exist. If the moon was to far or too close or to big or too small, this planet would not be suitable for life. But with the help of the moon's gravity pulling on the earth, it does.

 

[Chadwickboy]

I would just like to also point out that people also once thought that the Sun revolved around the Earth. But then, some other planets were discovered, among other things(sorry, my history escapes me at the moment lol). In any case, we know that to be not true. The Earth actually revolves around the Sun. It caused some problems in the beginning, but Christianity adjusted, even though we still have the same Bible. Who's to say it won't be that way with this? And what about the recent findings that there is - or was - water on Mars, which could have once made life? But maybe that's another discussion altogether, it just came to mind lol.

 

[mrburns]

Oh MAN. Excuse me if I offend you here, but: How thick can you get? Without the sun, temperature would drop to absolute Zero in no time. It's not just the light. Life on this planet depends on the sun. No sun, no life. As easy as that.


Okay: I checked myself. You really ARE ignorant.

Ignorant? Do you understand the concept of absolute zero? I ask on the basis of the definition given by Merriam-Webster Online: "noun: a theoretical temperature characterized by complete absence of heat and equivalent to exactly -273.15°C or -459.67°F" (emphasis added). That means it has never been absolute zero anywhere. Very cold does not immediately mean no life.

Deep waters are heated by vents from the center of the earth, not from the sun. That's if they are heated at all...

If Jack hadn't said it, I would have. Google "thermal vents" and go to the first link on the list.(I can't provide the actual link, I lack the necessary amount of posts to do so, sorry)

They wouldn't live if there was no sun to keep the water warm enough to remain liquid. And that's what the sun does. ...

was your response to

And light doesn't necessarily mean heat...

You keep saying light, or the sun, when what you really mean is heat(from the sun), because there is ample evidence of animals and plants that live in total darkness, i.e. they do not recieve any radiation in the visible part of the spectrum.

Excuse me if I offend you here, but: How thick can you get?

In a crowded room, shoving and pushing your way through people to the get to the front while saying "Excuse me" is at best, insincere and rude. This is no less true on the printed page.

 

[mrburns]

It does in regards to the moon, the tidal waves it makes, allows life to exist. If the moon was to far or too close or to big or too small, this planet would not be suitable for life. But with the help of the moon's gravity pulling on the earth, it does.

Also, the moon keeps our axis of rotation in the same place, 23 degrees or so off the vertical. Without it, the Earth could rotate in all 3 directions (e.g. pitch, roll, yaw) and it would be uninhabitable.

But what the sun's gravity has to with Earth only involves its orbit, not the formation of the Earth. The Earth would have formed, and formed as a sphere, regardless of the sun's gravity. When everything we can see in space is also the same shape it minimizes the uniqueness of just our sun having that kind of effect.

 

[Jack_Racz]

Oops, missed something...

Perhaps not an absolute zero, but so close that the difference hardly matters, because life cannot survive (or form in the first place) under such conditions.

Absolute zero is UNACHIEVABLE... It can not happen, something will always be moving, all the way down to the molecular state. The theory of absolute zero is that if it is achieved all matter will be destroyed. There will be no energy, no kenetic or potential energy... Everything ceases to be. Outerspace is cold, and without a star so close the planet would be cold, that's it. Just cold. We assume that life can exist only as we exist. Who's to say that's true?

 

[artybloke]

I would just like to also point out that people also once thought that the Sun revolved around the Earth. But then, some other planets were discovered, among other things(sorry, my history escapes me at the moment lol). In any case, we know that to be not true. The Earth actually revolves around the Sun. It caused some problems in the beginning, but Christianity adjusted, even though we still have the same Bible. Who's to say it won't be that way with this? And what about the recent findings that there is - or was - water on Mars, which could have once made life? But maybe that's another discussion altogether, it just came to mind lol.

Christianity has already adjusted. The vast majority of Christians world wide have no problems with evolution: it's simply the way God created. Just as we learnt to read the Bible figuratively when we realised the earth was not the centre of the solar system, so we have learnt to regard the parts of the Bible that talk about creation as figurative and theological rather than in any way scientific or literal. The only people who insist on a literal reading are a few diehards who want to send the church back to the Dark Ages.

 

[Chadwickboy]

Christianity has already adjusted. The vast majority of Christians world wide have no problems with evolution: it's simply the way God created. Just as we learnt to read the Bible figuratively when we realised the earth was not the centre of the solar system, so we have learnt to regard the parts of the Bible that talk about creation as figurative and theological rather than in any way scientific or literal. The only people who insist on a literal reading are a few diehards who want to send the church back to the Dark Ages.

Yeah, and unfortunately many of those diehards live in areas near me(at least at home; when I'm away at college I dunno lol)

 

[MinDach]

Ummmm... I'm sorry to destroy your illusions, MinDach. Really awfully sorry. But... the stars ARE suns, many of them much, much bigger than our own sun. Don't they even teach you the most basic principles in school these days? I really don't know if I should laugh or cry at this... I really don't. It really shocks me that you don't know that the stars are suns.

You are using a theory about what size the stars are, i am saying that our sun is the largest. You nor I have never been there. My point would be if all these stars you call Suns were the same as our sun, then all of space would be in full light, and another theory the is no end for light. I know more about human nature, then about the stars, why a certain question would be asked. If people are really searching for God and Jesus, or what are they really looking for?

 

[Ceris]

All right, I haven't gone much into studying the first passages of Genesis, so I'm not even going to touch that. And if you guys read the rules for this forum, you would realize that posts here are supposed to be to help people reach God. An attitude of (as the original poster said) "Lets see you wriggle out of that one" is not called for here. If you want to debate stuff, please go to the Christian Apologetics board.

 

[Jack_Racz]

You are using a theory about what size the stars are, i am saying that our sun is the largest. You nor I have never been there. My point would be if all these stars you call Suns were the same as our sun, then all of space would be in full light, and another theory the is no end for light.

Our sun is a star. All the stars you see at night are a range of different sizes. Most of which are bigger and brighter than ours. The logic you are using is the same as if I was to say, "Since that 8ft basketball player looks smaller than me from two miles away, he must be shorter than 6'1'' of me."

Stars look smaller to us because they are unbelievably far away. That is proven fact.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

I'm so dumb.
I'm gonna move this to the SC&E forum.

 

[Meatros]

I can't believe people are actually arguing whether or not plants can live without the sun.

Come on people! It's utterly impossible!


Would the earth be at absolute zero without the sun? No, but that really makes no difference in terms of whether or not life could be supported on earth-it would be WAY to cold for anything to live.

 

[Jack_Racz]

I can't believe people are actually arguing whether or not plants can live without the sun.

Well, seeing as you didn't read the thread... the arguement was that the sun created life.

 

[Aduro Amnis]

Yes Absolute Zero is impossible to acheive naturally, because of the 2.7 degree warming by the remenants of the Big Expansion(<-- Maybe if we start calling the "Big Bang" this people won't be so ... illeterate).

 

[Svt4Him]

Oh, I'm sorry, light was the first thing created. Where was that light? What did God do with it? Then He organized it into 24 hour periods. What was it before then? Plants can't exist without light, true. But there was light.

I can't believe this is still being brought up.

And science? Man, let me post the link:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-scientists.html

 

[Arikay]

And how honest do you think it is for them to put scientists on the list that died before the middle of the 1800's?

 

[trunks2k]

You are using a theory about what size the stars are, i am saying that our sun is the largest. You nor I have never been there. My point would be if all these stars you call Suns were the same as our sun, then all of space would be in full light, and another theory the is no end for light. I know more about human nature, then about the stars, why a certain question would be asked. If people are really searching for God and Jesus, or what are they really looking for?

Sorry, but where is WinAce? I think I have a submission for him.