The Bible

[ladodgers6]

Firstly, apologies if this is posted in the wrong section.

I was brought up Atheist but after a few events and 12 months of having big questions about life, I came to Christ in 2014 at age 24. My family and friend circles were and still are hard atheists. I'm the only person of faith. I have since managed to read the Bible (NIV) in full, and am now revisiting book by book to try and understand in more detail.

What I have wondered ever since day 1 is where the Bible stands in terms of significance / requirement when it comes to obtaining salvation? There are a few reasons of which I wonder and ask this question.

1) It is my understanding that from the first Christians, the next 1,500-1,650 or so years was spent with 90% of all believers not having read the Bible. Not only that, they were unable to read anyway. They were taught only what the church of the time preached to them and their understanding was limited. (I'm talking up to the protestant reformation). So, if the Bible is key, what happens to all those souls that lived for those 1,600 years or so before it was obtainable?

2) There are more Bible translations than I could ever remember without a large list. Further to that, there are then more interpretations than there are stars in the sky and sand grains on the beach combined. Each claiming that their interpretations are correct and it is they who have the deciphering Holy Spirit. From age to age, understandings on differing topics have occurred and in some cases, the stance completed changed. I have found you can visit 10 churches and come away with 10 interpretations or practices. So, if the Bible is key to our lives as Christians, how come God has made it so impossible to understand or verify? I sincerely believe not one person has the Bible interpretations remotely close to 100% correct. I am convinced I could read the book 100 times with the most informed scholars and we'd still be unsure and could only make informed guesses for many important things.

3) If the Bible is more of a tool to aid our Christian walk, and salvation is achieved through faith alone and not dependant on knowing the Bible and following it without error, then how does everyone fit the Bible into their walk with God? (Just a general question for advice and tips) I have been reading most days but I find it reading for readings sake and I haven't taken much from it than I already had from the first time of reading. Any advice?

Or likewise, if the Bible is more than a tool to aid us, then how do we overcome the first two points? I just find the whole thing confusing.

Please note I am not trying to play down the importance or lack of, of the Bible and reading it, this is merely my thoughts and something I've questioned and wondered about for a few years now.

God bless you all!

My advice, and you might think I am crazy. Read everything you can get your hands on. Then challenge it with Scripture. I will obviously offer you to research the Reformation (Reformers: Martin Luther, John Calvin, Jan Hus, Zwingli, John Wycliffe, Peter Waldo etc.

Find out what the debates were over; the core of it. And have an open mind.

Hope this helps???

Here is a link to a free Reformation study Bible: https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2017/10/how-to-freely-access-the-reformation-study-bible/

 

[hedrick]

While people didn’t own Bibles until the 16th Cent, they learned of at least key parts of it in other ways. This includes readings in worship.

On the other hand, the Reformers found significant departures from Scripture in the Church. That doesn’t mean the Church had abandoned Christ, but there were serious issues. Since we do now have Scripture available, we should use it.

Differences in translation are not sufficient to cause significant differences in theology.

I agree that there are significant differences in interpretation. Still, when someone asks what would Jesus do, I think there’s a lot more similarity than difference in understanding.

 

[Dan1988]

Firstly, apologies if this is posted in the wrong section.

I was brought up Atheist but after a few events and 12 months of having big questions about life, I came to Christ in 2014 at age 24. My family and friend circles were and still are hard atheists. I'm the only person of faith. I have since managed to read the Bible (NIV) in full, and am now revisiting book by book to try and understand in more detail.

What I have wondered ever since day 1 is where the Bible stands in terms of significance / requirement when it comes to obtaining salvation? There are a few reasons of which I wonder and ask this question.

1) It is my understanding that from the first Christians, the next 1,500-1,650 or so years was spent with 90% of all believers not having read the Bible. Not only that, they were unable to read anyway. They were taught only what the church of the time preached to them and their understanding was limited. (I'm talking up to the protestant reformation). So, if the Bible is key, what happens to all those souls that lived for those 1,600 years or so before it was obtainable?

2) There are more Bible translations than I could ever remember without a large list. Further to that, there are then more interpretations than there are stars in the sky and sand grains on the beach combined. Each claiming that their interpretations are correct and it is they who have the deciphering Holy Spirit. From age to age, understandings on differing topics have occurred and in some cases, the stance completed changed. I have found you can visit 10 churches and come away with 10 interpretations or practices. So, if the Bible is key to our lives as Christians, how come God has made it so impossible to understand or verify? I sincerely believe not one person has the Bible interpretations remotely close to 100% correct. I am convinced I could read the book 100 times with the most informed scholars and we'd still be unsure and could only make informed guesses for many important things.

3) If the Bible is more of a tool to aid our Christian walk, and salvation is achieved through faith alone and not dependant on knowing the Bible and following it without error, then how does everyone fit the Bible into their walk with God? (Just a general question for advice and tips) I have been reading most days but I find it reading for readings sake and I haven't taken much from it than I already had from the first time of reading. Any advice?

Or likewise, if the Bible is more than a tool to aid us, then how do we overcome the first two points? I just find the whole thing confusing.

Please note I am not trying to play down the importance or lack of, of the Bible and reading it, this is merely my thoughts and something I've questioned and wondered about for a few years now.

God bless you all!

The whole Bible message is about Jesus Christ, we don't need to be Bible Scholars to be saved. Jesus said, "as many as believe in me, shall be saved".

So if we believe in Christ as our savior, we are 100% guaranteed to inherit eternal life in paradise.

Jesus warned us that many false prophets would come after Him, they would add all kinds of requirements to salvation. Jesus din't say we need to believe in Him and keep the law as many Christians believe we need to do.

Christ has fully kept the law on our behalf and He has done everything necessary to save those who believe in Him.

If you were chosen for salvation before God laid the foundations of the world, then you will come to faith and Jesus will complete the work of salvation in your life. The only thing you do is trust and obey, He leads the way and you will receive the reward at God's appointed time.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ only makes sense to those God chose to save, it is foolishness to the rest. They will never come to understand the truth of the Gospel, because faith is a gift that God gives to His chosen only.

So Jesus never called us to be Bible scholars in order to receive salvation, all we need to do is believe in Him and He will finish the work He started.

 

[ladodgers6]

The whole Bible message is about Jesus Christ, we don't need to be Bible Scholars to be saved. Jesus said, "as many as believe in me, shall be saved".

So if we believe in Christ as our savior, we are 100% guaranteed to inherit eternal life in paradise.

Jesus warned us that many false prophets would come after Him, they would add all kinds of requirements to salvation. Jesus din't say we need to believe in Him and keep the law as many Christians believe we need to do.

Christ has fully kept the law on our behalf and He has done everything necessary to save those who believe in Him.

If you were chosen for salvation before God laid the foundations of the world, then you will come to faith and Jesus will complete the work of salvation in your life. The only thing you do is trust and obey, He leads the way and you will receive the reward at God's appointed time.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ only makes sense to those God chose to save, it is foolishness to the rest. They will never come to understand the truth of the Gospel, because faith is a gift that God gives to His chosen only.

So Jesus never called us to be Bible scholars in order to receive salvation, all we need to do is believe in Him and He will finish the work He started.

Like your post. Please explain for those reading along, since we are under Grace, shall we continue to sin?

 

[Dan1988]

Like your post. Please explain for those reading along, since we are under Grace, shall we continue to sin?

It's not a question of shell we continue to sin, we continue to sin until we drop dead is a fact whether we like it or not. That's why Christ had to pay for all of our past, present and future sins.
Every true believer will admit this fact, those who are false professors will deny it.

 

[ladodgers6]

It's not a question of shell we continue to sin, we continue to sin until we drop dead is a fact whether we like it or not. That's why Christ had to pay for all of our past, present and future sins.
Every true believer will admit this fact, those who are false professors will deny it.

Is repentance part of the cause or ground of a sinner's Justification and Salvation?

 

[Dan1988]

Is repentance part of the cause or ground of a sinner's Justification and Salvation?

Repentance comes as part of the salvation package deal which we receive from God if we are His chosen. The very ability to believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ comes from God as a gift, belief is not something that a person can arrive at after studying all the pros and cons the Gospel.

The most intelligent people in the world, reject the Gospel as foolishness because they don't have the gift of faith. Gods doesn't usually give that gift to highly educated and rich people, He usually gives it to the ordinary humble, simple person.

The first thing that occurs in the process of salvation is the person becomes open to hearing the Gospel, then the more they learn the more it conforms them into the image of Christ.

 

[ladodgers6]

Repentance comes as part of the salvation package deal which we receive from God if we are His chosen. The very ability to believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ comes from God as a gift, belief is not something that a person can arrive at after studying all the pros and cons the Gospel.

The most intelligent people in the world, reject the Gospel as foolishness because they don't have the gift of faith. Gods doesn't usually give that gift to highly educated and rich people, He usually gives it to the ordinary humble, simple person.

The first thing that occurs in the process of salvation is the person becomes open to hearing the Gospel, then the more they learn the more it conforms them into the image of Christ.

So is repentance part of the cause and ground (basis) for a sinner's justification or salvation? I am not trying to trick or trap you. Its a honest inquiry. In the Reformed Faith, we believe that Repentance is not in anyway or form, part of the cause or ground (basis) of a sinner's justification and Salvation. The SOLE cause or ground of a sinner's justification & salvation is Christ Alone! Repentance in Reformed Theology is that its a fruit or signs of our Justification by Faith Alone in Christ Alone!

What is the Baptist position? Just curious. BTW thanks for sharing with me.

 

[Dan1988]

So is repentance part of the cause and ground (basis) for a sinner's justification or salvation? I am not trying to trick or trap you. Its a honest inquiry. In the Reformed Faith, we believe that Repentance is not in anyway or form, part of the cause or ground (basis) of a sinner's justification and Salvation. The SOLE cause or ground of a sinner's justification & salvation is Christ Alone! Repentance in Reformed Theology is that its a fruit or signs of our Justification by Faith Alone in Christ Alone!

What is the Baptist position? Just curious. BTW thanks for sharing with me.

I'm a member of a Reformed Baptist Church, we believe exactly as you stated it. We believe all the fruits of salvation, such as repentance, sanctification, justification, faith, good works and the rest are all the result of the work God began in us while we were yet sinners.

I'm not sure what the exact chronological order of the above is, all I know that in my case I had an awakening where I realized that I was enslaved to a destructive lifestyle of sin. I wanted to be liberated so I got on my knees and asked Jesus to save me, the rest is history.

 

[Spiritualized]

Thanks everyone for all of your responses and advice. Apologies for a late reply but I've been very busy with work since last posting. I will take on board everything everyone has said and look into the many links and information given to me. Thank you once again it is very much appreciated. I won't personally respond to everyone as I'd be here all night, but I have read each and every valued response. God bless you all.

Liza - I like the idea of the structured reading program, maybe that is something I'm missing as at the moment I shove reading time in and around other things as and when I can. As you say, it'll all add up in quick to no time.

Dan and Ladodgers, I too am a regular attender (although not a member) of a Reformed Church in the UK. We seem to have a pretty even pocket of Presbyterian, Baptist, Methodist and Catholic congregation and despite the differences of opinions on many things (some a lot more serious than others) it's a brilliant welcoming church for all. The things you say resonate with what I have been taught thus far. I do believe in justification purely through faith and repentance being the fruit of the salvation and change in the believer. In all honesty, if justification was dependant on us earning it, well. I'll be first to the fire! I need Jesus.

 

[Steven Heiss]

Firstly, apologies if this is posted in the wrong section.

I have been reading most days but I find it reading for readings sake and I haven't taken much from it than I already had from the first time of reading. Any advice?

Or likewise, if the Bible is more than a tool to aid us, then how do we overcome the first two points? I just find the whole thing confusing.

Please note I am not trying to play down the importance or lack of, of the Bible and reading it, this is merely my thoughts and something I've questioned and wondered about for a few years now.

God bless you all!

My advice is to start over from the beginning, reading out of it only what it says. Try not to read into it anything you have been told, or think it might mean. The scriptures will interpret themselves, if you let them. This will give you a new perspective, and you should be able to see things you never saw before, but were there all along.

It worked for me.

p.s. I use the NIV exclusively and find it adequately footnoted (key)

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

They relied more on the Church as the body of Christ to teach them. Each member was taught by others who knew more, the mature sheparding the sheep; plus knowledge only isn't enough, but experience too for understanding. Many people disregard traditions as man-made and oral traditions as man's word, even we judge the Jews for it. But for most people who were illterate and uncapble of reading and memorizing the Bible, it was through traditions they observed and teachings they heard. Only major difference between Judaism and Christianity is Christ, by observing him you have all the prophets and obeying his teachings all the law; so first it's faith in Christ as the head, then in the Spirit you seek him getting nearer to the truth.

Jesus is the only man to know God as the begotten Son, he literally came from the Father in spirit to Blessed Mary. She didn't understand what it all meant, but she trusted God accepting Jesus was from him. Even Joseph struggled with it but trusted God, he accepted Jesus and Blessed Mary. Translations and interpretations won't change the truth all as Christians accept, Jesus is the Son of God sent having God's word; he embodied the word beyond words on paper, he literally lived it showing us. If there's anything we can't understand personally, we go to him through the Church to learn what others know; any differences of understanding requires spiritual discernment and personal relationship, getting to know Christ in our lives and testing our faith.

All that points to God is an aid to us. Whether it's The Bible as the written word or a sermon as the spoken word, if it's from God then it's his word. Also I believe his word is living, it's alive in us. It's something we can live letting it show through us to others that's the living word, Jesus served God by leading the way and showing others. If you learned all you can, least now, just remember God's word and continue practicing it; then share what you believe is certain truth by your words and actions.

 

[Mark51]

There are several scriptures that writers were either inspired, instructed, dreamed, visioned and so forth to preserve the contents of God words. Considering the reality of human's failed memory of accounts, John 14:26 and 2 Peter 1:21, I believe, should comfort us of the Bible's accuracy.