The bible

[PsychoSarah]

There's a lot of truth in the bible. However, we cannot accept it a face value for it has been doctored by man and subjected to bias when translated. Though, if you read between the lines, it does speak the truth.

In terms of being omnipotent, when in "man form" God may not be able to lift the heaviest of rocks, but God can move mountains with earthquakes. Jesus did in fact die, even though, he was the holiest man to ever live.

I contend the god of the bible is powerful, don't get me wrong, but to be omnipotent is to literally be capable of anything and everything without limits. Thus, anyone who contends that perhaps there are things god cannot do, then they cannot claim god is omnipotent.

 

[PsychoSarah]

God cannot change free will. So God cannot be omnipotent in everything. Free will is free will. That doesn't mean that God cannot punish you for your acts within free will though. God is a very forgiving deity. Just don't push God's buttons too far, or you may feel his wrath.

You cannot be omnipotent in some areas and not in others, that is not what the word omnipotent means.

How long before someone understands my issue is the use of the word incorrectly?

 

[PsychoSarah]

The word has been used incorrectly. God is not omnipotent in everything. Jesus did die. Having died, Jesus rendered the word omnipotent to be useless. God is still very powerful. Man should just state that God is very powerful, yet, in "man form" is just like most of us.

I don't understand how Jesus dying would make god not omnipotent, after all if one is incapable of death, that would make dying something they couldn't do.

 

[St_Worm2]

The word has been used incorrectly. God is not omnipotent in everything. Jesus did die. Having died, Jesus rendered the word omnipotent to be useless. God is still very powerful. Man should just state that God is very powerful, yet, in "man form" is just like most of us.

Hi TWIM, you are correct, Jesus died on the Cross, but God didn't. Jesus took upon Himself a dual nature at His Incarnation. He became fully man while remaining fully God and, as a man, He was capable of dying, but God cannot. God the Son (Jesus Christ) is both our Creator and our Conserver (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16-17), IOW, He created the universe and He also maintains it (binds it together). "He Himself" (Colossians 1:17) implying the "divine essential being"* cannot cease to exist or all of Creation would cease to exist along with Him.

Yours and His,
David

*Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible, Jamieson, Fausset, & Brown

 

[PsychoSarah]

Hi TWIM, you are correct, Jesus died on the Cross, but God didn't. Jesus took upon Himself a dual nature at His Incarnation. He became fully man while remaining fully God and, as a man, He was capable of dying, but God cannot. God the Son (Jesus Christ) is both our Creator and our Conserver (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16-17), IOW, He created the universe and He also maintains it (binds it together). "He Himself" (Colossians 1:17) implying the "divine essential being"* cannot cease to exist or all of Creation would cease to exist along with Him.

Yours and His,
David

*Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible, Jamieson, Fausset, & Brown

I imagine god states itself to be eternal, but would such a being even count as alive to begin with?

 

[Lollerskates]

I imagine god states itself to be eternal, but would such a being even count as alive to begin with?

That is why when He told Moses who sent him to the Hebrews, He said His name is "I exist because I exist." He doesn't even qualify to be called an entity, as even "immortal entities" can die in philosophy after aeons. There is no qualification to describe Him, and no quantification of His living. If you can make your words into a literal walking and breathing God - with its own consciousness that chooses to 100% align with yours, who creates universe(s) and dimensions, capable of love, etc., then your power and greatness in immeasurable. Humans barely get computers to obey us, and demons even have trouble possessing some souls. But Christ and God are one.

 

[theophilus777]

Why is it so important? I'm not going to make any claims or assumptions, I just want an honest answer as to why the bible is so important.

You can't understand western literature w/o having at least some familiarity with it. It's a huge part of western culture.

 

[theophilus777]

My reason for asking this is because I tend to see a lot deference to what the bible has to say on just about any given subject. Truly, the authors were brilliant in how they covered just about everything that could ever come up.

Now, we all know the bible is the inspired word of God. But, how do we (I) know that God actually uttered those words. How do we tell the difference between the writings of men from 20 to 30 centuries ago and what God actually said?

I think that lots of things in daily life are never mentioned in the Bible.

We don't think God uttered the overwhelming majority of the words in the Bible. A few of them, including the "thus sayeth the Lord's," most Bible believers will ascribe as being that way. That's a tiny portion. You have every type of literature included; poetry, myth, eroticism, horror ...

 

[theophilus777]

I question the authority of ancient desert dwelling peoples and their morality.

That is also a HUGE significance of the Bible! Christians critique these things far more than atheists, and we don't arrive at ancient goat herders having authority over us, nor do we conclude they were in any way moral. This is an important reason for reading the Bible; when you do, you come to realize that.

 

[theophilus777]

No, seriously, there are practices supported by the bible which can make you sick and spread disease, especially the ones involving animal blood.

Animal blood has ceased to be used millennia ago, and we have no way of knowing how the Power of God kept them free from the obvious problems which is part of the story you'd rather overlook. The rest of the medical issues are WAY ahead of their time, which is another part you'd rather overlook.

 

[theophilus777]

I would rather not see you unintentionally do yourself and others harm, regardless as to whether or not there are religious connections to those activities that would contribute to the harm.

Said harm is entirely PROJECTED. At no time did this poster say anything to give cause for concern.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Animal blood has ceased to be used millennia ago, and we have no way of knowing how the Power of God kept them free from the obvious problems which is part of the story you'd rather overlook. The rest of the medical issues are WAY ahead of their time, which is another part you'd rather overlook.

I am not overlooking anything, if you, as a believer, chose to perform some of the medical "cures" and practices in the bible, you could make yourself very ill. If you really want to risk it, you could try to prove me wrong by actually doing them, but I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Said harm is entirely PROJECTED. At no time did this poster say anything to give cause for concern.

I worry that people might do the animal blood stuff and make themselves sick every time I hear someone claim they think biblical cures would all work

 

[theophilus777]

Look, some medical practices suggested by the bible are fine, but others are more dangerous than doing nothing at all.

It would be really interesting to see what specific medical remedies taught in the Bible give you concern. Jewish tradition holds what became of the blood sprinkled on the altars, but of course you must realize that was never a medical remedy. The OP might even think this is relevant to the thread? Its a twist I certainly didn't expect to see.

Also, you mention snake handlers. Have you ever known any? I have. And that was never intended as any sort of medical remedy.

 

[St_Worm2]

I imagine god states itself to be eternal, but would such a being even count as alive to begin with?

What Lollerskates said^ And not that any of this that follows really needs to be said now, but (since I already wrote it down .. ) here is more ado about the same thing (with a bit of my own perspective added here and there).

God is our life (Deuteronomy 30:20) and He is the Source of all life. His proper name is YHWH or YHVH (Yahweh) which when translated into English and shortened becomes, "I AM" ("I exist because I exist" as per Loller above). That name, in fact, is considered to be so holy by the Jews that they chose to never speak it in public (from the days of the writing of the Talmud on). He is also known as "the Alpha and the Omega", "the beginning and the end", and has told us in the Bible that He is "from everlasting to everlasting". IOW, He IS. All other things/beings have been created by Him.

In theology, we call this aspect of God His "aseity" (or the doctrine of aseity or pure existence) meaning that God has life in Himself and draws His unending energy from no other source than Himself.

You could also say that God’s aseity means that he is Being; everything else merely has being. God is pure actuality. All other things have both actuality and potentiality. Therefore, God cannot, not, exist. All creatures can be nonexistent. That is, they have the potentiality for nonexistence. But God IS.

Perhaps the most amazing thing for us Christians though is why a Being who is 100% self-existent and in absolutely no need of anything or anyone else would chose to create beings such as ourselves knowing full well ahead of time what that would mean (John 3:16). But let's leave that for another discussion.

Yours and His,
David

 

[theophilus777]

Yes, an all knowing, all powerful being has no excuse for allowing suffering.

You base your opinion for this on what, exactly?

 

[theophilus777]

No it wouldn't, an omnipotent being could make it so both free will and no suffering could happen. Such a being has no limits, suffering is not necessary for free will to exist, even in making suffering an option, an omnipotent being can still make it effectively never happen and retain the free will of its creations.

Obviously false, but go ahead and flesh out your idea here.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It would be really interesting to see what specific medical remedies taught in the Bible give you concern. Jewish tradition holds what became of the blood sprinkled on the altars, but of course you must realize that was never a medical remedy. The OP might even think this is relevant to the thread? Its a twist I certainly didn't expect to see.

Also, you mention snake handlers. Have you ever known any? I have. And that was never intended as any sort of medical remedy.

I know that isn't a medical remedy, the sprinkling bird blood on a house Which Has Been Spared From Plague bugs me, the "bitter water which has dirt from the floor" wife faithfulness test bothers me. Those are ones off the top of my head.

It is overall practices people get from the bible and decide must be safe that bug me, not just medical stuff, because unfortunately the bible advocates some actions which are dangerous.

I have never personally met a snake handler, no churches that do that in my area that I know of.

 

[theophilus777]

God doesn't have to do anything, that is sort of the big point of omnipotence. The fact remains of what it COULD do and yet chose not to.

Incredibly short-sighted. What about being just? Truthful?

 

[PsychoSarah]

You base your opinion for this on what, exactly?

That such a being would never need suffering to exist. It would have no use for suffering that couldn't be met in other, less agonizing ways.