The bible

[Albion]

"Actually, our respective viewpoints are contingent on the books, articles, and/or videos we just happened to encounter, read, and possibly amalgamate into our preexisting assumptions. You have your set of sources and psychological predispositions, and I have mine; and we wonder why we've each reached some 'other' conclusion."

Let me articulate this a little differently. Here we go:

...our respective viewpoints mainly develop by being influenced formally and informally by various media that we just happen to encounter. Usually we amalgamate the new ideas with our preexisting assumptions, and sometimes we synthesize new conclusions. Each of us has our individual set of sources, as well as psychological predispositions; and we wonder why another person who disagrees with ourselves has reached some 'other' conclusion (for surely our set of sources got all the facts right, or so each of us thinks.)

Is the articulation above any clearer, Albion?

Now that you've changed your statement, of course my critique of the original doesn't apply to it. Now you've brought yours into agreement with my point.

Please keep in mind that all of this was originally directed to Cearbhall, as she is atheist, and I was merely attempting to shape up the lines of her thinking.

Fine. My point was simply that we are not what we are merely because our learning has confirmed our PREdispositions or preconceived ideas. It's probably more likely that what we've read or heard has convinced us of the truth of a different POV.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Psstt. Hey!

I really think the 'handling of snakes' item that we find at the end of the Gospel of Mark is simply a response to what was thought by early Christians to have already happened to Paul toward the end of Acts. If you remember, Paul wasn't "looking" to challenge a venomous snake, quite unlike various Pentecostal snake-handlers who do (and sometimes die).

I am well aware, and this is really my point. In modern times there is no logical reason or even scriptural reason to practice biblical medicine over more proven methods. I really don't view this as an issue of faith so much as an issue of health and safety.

 

[Albion]

I believe that there are many scriptures that have not been released and are in the Vatican's vaults. I'm just glad the Vatican finally listened to me in the fact that celibacy was not thy best policy.

When did she change that?

 

[Lollerskates]

I believe that there are many scriptures that have not been released and are in the Vatican's vaults.

That is why so many people are confused, disillusioned, and reject the Church. The bible canon is severely lacking for "whatever" the reasons - political, genetic, apostate, ecumenical, to hide the truth, etc. Nothing should be hidden, no matter how seemingly uninspired. The individual is supposed to discern for his or herself. Everyone is responsible for their individual soul, not a group of people.

 

[PsychoSarah]

That is why so many people are confused, disillusioned, and reject the Church. The bible canon is severely lacking for "whatever" the reasons - political, genetic, apostate, ecumenical, to hide the truth, etc. Nothing should be hidden, no matter how seemingly uninspired. The individual is supposed to discern for his or herself. Everyone is responsible for their individual soul, not a group of people.

Have you read the book of Lilith? There are good reasons certain texts aren't a part of cannon. It has Adam committing beastiality, and that isn't even the worst thing in there.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'm talking about ones that no one has read in many years. I've read that book and yes it was an eye opener. To err is to be human though.

I think whoever wrote that book ate some bad mushrooms and washed them down with nightmare cactus.

 

[Lollerskates]

Have you read the book of Lilith? There are good reasons certain texts aren't a part of cannon. It has Adam committing beastiality, and that isn't even the worst thing in there.

People need discern that for themselves still. So, it shouldn't be hidden or apocryphal. Especially since Lillith is a part of popular media culture, and a basis of many supposed mythologies. People should be able to.draw their own conclusion on where this comes from.

 

[PsychoSarah]

People need discern that for themselves still. So, it shouldn't be hidden or apocryphal. Especially since Lillith is a part of popular media culture, and a basis of many supposed mythologies. People should be able to.draw their own conclusion on where this comes from.

It isn't hidden really, it just isn't in the cannon.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Psstt. Hey!

I really think the 'handling of snakes' item that we find at the end of the Gospel of Mark is simply a response to what was thought by early Christians to have already happened to Paul toward the end of Acts. If you remember, Paul wasn't "looking" to challenge a venomous snake, quite unlike various Pentecostal snake-handlers who do (and sometimes die).

The account reveals that this was a one-time event, and referred to those that the disciples would preach to. Note that the last verse closes the book on the 'deadly things'. There is no indication that these 'signs' would remain beyond that generation of believers.

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

 

[PsychoSarah]

And so people die thanks to misunderstanding the bible. Again.

 

[Lollerskates]

It should be biblically accessible to everyone in the "canon," or there should be no "canon," just texts.

And, it is hidden in that the vast majority of Christians do not know about that book and many others, probably all in the Vatican vaults.

 

[Albion]

And so people die thanks to misunderstanding the bible. Again.

Yeh, I suppose handling poisonous snakes repeatedly runs that risk, but most misunderstandings of the Bible are not of that character.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It isn't about religion really, it is about medical safety. Many people who take the bible and other religious texts as their source of health information die as a result. Think of those preachers and church goers that handle poisonous snakes because they think their faith will protect them, who end up dying because they are bitten and refuse medical treatment. I would rather you not make yourself ill because of medical practices centuries out of date.

You are conflating two different things (I have bolded these for you). This just adds to the confusion.

The bible speaks mostly about health practices, not medical treatment. If the biblical well-being models were followed the medical industry would not be on the verge of taking over the economy of the nation.

For example, a growing health problem is fatigue, and, sleep deprivation. The bible instructs us to take a day off each week, and to do enough physical work to promote a good nights sleep. (Ecclesiastes 5:12)

 

[Albion]

The bible speaks mostly about health practices, not medical treatment.

An excellent point.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I just want an honest answer as to why the bible is so important.

Missed in the discussion over that question is a general truth: all beliefs are based on an 'authority.' If I want to know about Algebra, for example, the Algebra book is my 'authority' for that.

In the religious realm, books such as the Bible are the authority for the doctrinal aspects of Christian religions, to one degree or another. For the Muslim, it would be the Koran and the Haddith, at least. For the Mormon, the the living prophet of the church. For Catholics, the Bible and tradition of the church. For the atheist, his personal opinion.

Authorities, of course, can be wrong. Best example is the Ptolemaic model of the heavens, which held sway until Copernicus begged to differ. For that reason, an authority, especially a religious one, should always be objectively tested before accepting it as such. Some obvious tests are:

1. Who wrote it?
2. Is it factually correct?
3. Is it internally consistent?
4. What is it's history of transmission? Was that process a valid one, objectively speaking, which gives us assurance that what we are reading is what was actually written?

Allegiance to an authority carries with it the obligation to fully understand it, a failing many people have. Comments concerning OT practices, for example, usually miss the point that the OT laws upon which it was based was done away with by Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Thus, I can eat all the bacon I want. Thank you, Jesus!

The allegiance itself must be internal and complete, and it limits your choices. If you claim to be a Catholic, then you should be living the Catholic life consistent with Church law and doctrine. If you aren't, you are a hypocrite and unworthy of the name. If you are Christian, to whom the Bible is God's word, but you pick and choose which parts to believe, you become two things: First, a hypocrite; second, unbelievably arrogant, in that you've replaced God's word with your personal opinion. I'd say that the preferred authority for most of humanity is the personal opinion, which should be subject to the same tests as noted above before being used to govern your lives.

So, the importance of the Bible is that it is the authority for all who claim to be Christian, one way or another. It is in front of us, in a variety of easy to read formats and presents itself to us each day. We can argue over it, dispute its meanings, debate over which translation to use, but it binds us together as one body, and gives us the same basis upon which to worship. Which makes it important. Cordially, Skip.

 

[juvenissun]

Why is it so important? I'm not going to make any claims or assumptions, I just want an honest answer as to why the bible is so important.

It builds a faith.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why is it so important? I'm not going to make any claims or assumptions, I just want an honest answer as to why the bible is so important.

The bible contains the words and thoughts of the creator of the universe.

 

[PsychoSarah]

The bible contains the words and thoughts of the creator of the universe.

Supposedly

 

[OldWiseGuy]

And so people die thanks to misunderstanding the bible. Again.

That's not the fault of the bible.

 

[PsychoSarah]

That's not the fault of the bible.

Meh, it depends. If you consider the bible just the words of ancient humans, then yes, you are right, no accountability really there. But, if it really were the ideas of an all knowing being, it would have known before hand the consequences of certain verses, and would have chosen not to alter them to prevent harm. If one considers the bible the direct writings of god, then as a being of such great power and knowledge god would be accountable.