The bible

[GoldenBoy89]

Why is it so important? I'm not going to make any claims or assumptions, I just want an honest answer as to why the bible is so important.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

No takers, huh?

I guess it must not be very important.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

No takers, huh?

I guess it must not be very important.

Actually, the bible is important, but some of us do work for a living during the day; and because my job prohibits internet access while in the workplace, I couldn't get to it.

Thanks for asking, though.

In sum, the Bible is important 'to me' because it offers a potential antidote to death, as well as a metaphysical hope.

There...all done.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It certainly is important in how it as impacted human history and culture. It has inspired literature and art, as well as violence and war.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Actually, the bible is important, but some of us do work for a living during the day; and because my job prohibits internet access while in the workplace, I couldn't get to it.

Thanks for asking, though.

In sum, the Bible is important 'to me' because it offers a potential antidote to death, as well as a metaphysical hope.

There...all done.

Sorry, didn't mean to be pushy.

Ok. I can get that.

My reason for asking this is because I tend to see a lot deference to what the bible has to say on just about any given subject. Truly, the authors were brilliant in how they covered just about everything that could ever come up.

Now, we all know the bible is the inspired word of God. But, how do we (I) know that God actually uttered those words. How do we tell the difference between the writings of men from 20 to 30 centuries ago and what God actually said?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Sorry, didn't mean to be pushy.

Ok. I can get that.

My reason for asking this is because I tend to see a lot deference to what the bible has to say on just about any given subject. Truly, the authors were brilliant in how they covered just about everything that could ever come up.

Now, we all know the bible is the inspired word of God. But, how do we (I) know that God actually uttered those words. How do we tell the difference between the writings of men from 20 to 30 centuries ago and what God actually said?

You can't, they just take the bible' word for it. Because the bible claims bad things will happen if they question or doubt it.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It certainly is important in how it as impacted human history and culture. It has inspired literature and art, as well as violence and war.

Well, I don't deny it's historical importance. It certainly has had a huge impact on the world. But I question the authority of ancient desert dwelling peoples and their morality. That was mainly the point of this thread.

I hear Christians say, "The bible says this." or "The bible says that." and I truly understand their cultural background and where the bible fits into that but I just don't see how it can be reasonable to take some long-gone, nameless author's word for it that this is actually how things happened and why they happened and that their supernatural superstitions were actually literally true.

I'm sorry Christians. I just cannot accept that as any kind of authority in my life.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sorry, didn't mean to be pushy.

Ok. I can get that.

My reason for asking this is because I tend to see a lot deference to what the bible has to say on just about any given subject. Truly, the authors were brilliant in how they covered just about everything that could ever come up.

Now, we all know the bible is the inspired word of God. But, how do we (I) know that God actually uttered those words. How do we tell the difference between the writings of men from 20 to 30 centuries ago and what God actually said?

Those are great questions, Goldenboy! Personally, I think that if anyone truly had a definite answer, there probably wouldn't be a thousand different Christian (PHD) books on the market addressing those questions from at least several major perceptual positions, along with all of the published atheist rejoinders, like those of Dawkins and Friends.

So....as wisely as possible, I don't pretend to be able to answer those kinds of questions, because despite what modern Christians say, those questions aren't going to be answerable with Greco-Enlightened thinking (which is kind of what Paul (and Jesus) alluded to in the New Testament). Unfortunately, modern Christians will disagree with me; however, while I don't rule out the progress that can be made with human discernment, I seriously consider the existential plight of the human mind in all of this.

Wouldn't we have to definitively pin-down which epistemological framework we should use in attempting to form answers to your questions? And of course, such a pinning-down is itself subjective; all epistemological frameworks which I have encountered thus far have cognitive limits. So, it almost comes down to aesthetic choices on various related topics, and you either end up liking and philosophically hoping in Jesus...or you don't.

Thanks for the questions Goldenboy!

 

[PsychoSarah]

Sorry, didn't mean to be pushy.

Ok. I can get that.

My reason for asking this is because I tend to see a lot deference to what the bible has to say on just about any given subject. Truly, the authors were brilliant in how they covered just about everything that could ever come up.

Now, we all know the bible is the inspired word of God. But, how do we (I) know that God actually uttered those words. How do we tell the difference between the writings of men from 20 to 30 centuries ago and what God actually said?

Well, I don't deny it's historical importance. It certainly has had a huge impact on the world. But I question the authority of ancient desert dwelling peoples and their morality. That was mainly the point of this thread.

I hear Christians say, "The bible says this." or "The bible says that." and I truly understand their cultural background and where the bible fits into that but I just don't see how it can be reasonable to take some long-gone, nameless author's word for it that this is actually how things happened and why they happened and that their supernatural superstitions were actually literally true.

I'm sorry Christians. I just cannot accept that as any kind of authority in my life.

Even if a god provably wrote it, there would be no reason to assume this god was good or being honest.

But I have somewhat stopped asking why people believe the bible is significant in the religious sort of way, and begun to ask why the minority of people, who are atheist like myself, don't view such things as significant in those ways.

 

[St_Worm2]

I have ... begun to ask why the minority of people, who are atheist like myself, don't view such things as significant in those ways.

If you don't mind me asking, what have you come up with so far ..

Thanks!

--David

 

[St_Worm2]

Even if a god provably wrote it, there would be no reason to assume this god was good or being honest.

My assumptions concerning God that led to my trusting Him with my eternal life are due in no small part to the great lovingkindnesses I believe He has shown me throughout my life, especially in my most difficult moments and prolonged struggles.

It also helps to realize/remember that He loves us so much He would rather die than live w/o us ..

Yours and His,
David

"God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believes in Him should not perish,
but have everlasting life"
John 3:16​

 

[PsychoSarah]

If you don't mind me asking, what have you come up with so far ..

Thanks!

--David

So far, there is a bit of a split, with this list of basic qualities I see many atheists, antitheists, and agnostics having:

1. Openness to being wrong, seems a big quality in agnostics and some atheists, somewhat absent in antitheists.

2. Bad experiences relating to religion, agnostics not as much as atheists, atheists not as much as antitheists

3. Higher education, interestingly, less seen in antitheists than the other two, though pretty consistent amongst all three.

4. Biology or science related interests, probably because being educated in the areas of science where one is constantly faced with observations which conflict with religion isn't exactly conducive to retaining or developing faith.

But I think more importantly are things I don't see impacting it.

1. Religion, whether or not the house hold they grew up in was religious doesn't seem to make a huge impact, with many atheists growing up with religious families, and a few who did not.

2. Life quality, whether or not life has generally been good or bad doesn't seem hugely relevant.

3. Happiness, some are pessimists, others optimists, and all in between.

But these are just my observations, these aren't facts or official in any way. They are based in what details people have given about their lives, so it isn't exactly a perfect source. Just the impression I get from being on here, reading what people have to say.

 

[PsychoSarah]

My assumptions concerning God that led to my trusting Him with my eternal life are due in no small part to the great lovingkindnesses I believe He has shown me throughout my life, especially in my most difficult moments and prolonged struggles.

It also helps to realize/remember that He loves us so much He would rather die than live w/o us ..

Yours and His,
David

"God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever believes in Him should not perish,
but have everlasting life"
John 3:16​

But remember, god would rather die than just forgive us for the flaws it gave us, and it would rather have the majority of people sentenced to hell for nonbelief than provide irrefutable evidence for its own existence that would stand the test of time.

Plus, as far as I am concerned, Jesus was a good person who thought himself a prophet, attempted to spread peace, and died for it. I view Jesus as a human, only extraordinary in his willingness to help others.

 

[Albion]

Well, I don't deny it's historical importance. It certainly has had a huge impact on the world. But I question the authority of ancient desert dwelling peoples and their morality. That was mainly the point of this thread.

I hear Christians say, "The bible says this." or "The bible says that." and I truly understand their cultural background and where the bible fits into that but I just don't see how it can be reasonable to take some long-gone, nameless author's word for it that this is actually how things happened and why they happened and that their supernatural superstitions were actually literally true.

I'm sorry Christians. I just cannot accept that as any kind of authority in my life.

It sounds as though your mind is made up, so why did you ask the question?

Personally, I feel that the Bible has proven its worth--desert dwellers (?) or not.

It has been called the most scrutinized book in world history... and guess what? It's held up. So if we place any stock at all in the consistency and accuracy of its accounts, we ought not dismiss it out of hand merely because it was written by ancient peoples.

 

[Cearbhall]

Now, we all know the bible is the inspired word of God. But, how do we (I) know that God actually uttered those words. How do we tell the difference between the writings of men from 20 to 30 centuries ago and what God actually said?

You'll get a different answer from each denomination, and from each individual Christian, at that. Some say that it's all true because it says it is (the epitome of circular reasoning). Others recognize that it's an anthology that includes different literary genres and that some of it was never meant to be taken literally. Still others would say that most of it was embellished beyond comprehension by men with outdated agendas, and God's real intentions haven't been revealed yet.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It sounds as though your mind is made up, so why did you ask the question?

Personally, I feel that the Bible has proven its worth--desert dwellers (?) or not.

It has been called the most scrutinized book in world history... and guess what? It's held up. So if we place any stock at all in the consistency and accuracy of its accounts, we ought not dismiss it out of hand merely because it was written by ancient peoples.

The Hindu Vedas have held up far longer than the bible, should we really base the credibility of something on how long it has existed?

 

[Albion]

The Hindu Vedas have held up far longer than the bible, should we really base the credibility of something on how long it has existed?

How have they "held up?"

 

[PsychoSarah]

How have they "held up?"

Hinduism is a promising contestant for the oldest surviving religion, and it isn't short of worshippers by any means.

But if you are thinking of prophecies, the bible has not done well. The bible has very very few prophecies which aren't so generic that it wouldn't be more astounding were they not to be fulfilled. Seriously, "there will be doubters" come on, that isn't impressive.

 

[Cearbhall]

It has been called the most scrutinized book in world history... and guess what? It's held up. So if we place any stock at all in the consistency and accuracy of its accounts, we ought not dismiss it out of hand merely because it was written by ancient peoples.

What...? How has it held up? Almost none of it checks out, which is why your religion is based on faith. And that's absolutely fine, but let's not act like I'm going against verified truths by being atheist.

 

[PsychoSarah]

What...? How has it held up? Almost none of it checks out, which is why your religion is based on faith. And that's absolutely fine, but let's not act like I'm going against verified truths by being atheist.

Your icon says agnostic