The beginning...as written

[1whirlwind]

Most of us have been taught since childhood that the earth is six thousand years old, that Eve took a bite of an apple, that all men are from Adam and that Noah and his family were the only ones on the ark. NONE OF THAT IS TRUE! Concerning the beginning our Father tells us....

11 Peter 3:5-7 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
​

Let us not be "willingly ignorant" of what He teaches. The previous world/age, the "world that then was"....PERISHED. This world age didn't perish with the flood of Noah. And the flood of Noah didn't upset the heavens but the previous destruction did! We begin at...the beginning:

Genesis 1:1-2 In the (a) beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was (became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
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We aren't told when the "beginning" was. Science tells us it is millions or billions of years old. We don't know the age but it is obvious that it is not six thousand years. When God created everything He didn't create it "without form and void." Nor did He place darkness over the deep. Darkness is simply another name for Satan. The world "that then was" was without His Light. We know it wasn't created in chaos for He tells us....

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD That created the heavens; God Himself That formed it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the LORD; and there is none else.
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In "vain" means...tohu and is the same word for "without form" used in Genesis 1:1. The earth became this way......

#8414 tohuw; from an unused root mean. to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; fig. a worthless thing; adv. in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.
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As you see, a great deal happened between the beginning, the very beginning, and the last part of Genesis 1:2 when, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." What happened and what caused that event? What happened to end that previous age, the one of the dinosaurs? We know there was one for....it is written! So, why and how?

Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept SECRET FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

Foundation #2602 katabole, from 2598: a deposition, i.e. founding: fig. conception: - conceive, foundation. #2598 kataballo, from 2596 and 906: to throw down, cast down, descend, fall (down), lay. It comes from #2596 kata, which lists many applications but frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.
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From a study by E.W. Bullinger about the "foundation."

There are two words translated "foundation" in the New Testament. 1. Themelios and 2.katabole. (snip) A comparison of various passages using the word, but especially [2 Corinthians 4:9 and Revelation 12:10] will show that kataballo and katabole are NOT the proper terms for founding and foundation, but the correct meaning is casting down, or overthrow. Accordingly, the noun katabole, derived from, and cognate with the verb, ought to be translated "disruption, or ruin."

The remarkable thing is that in all occurrences (except Heb.11:11) the word is connected with "the world," kosmos and therefore the expression should be rendered, "the disruption, or ruin, of the world, clearly referring to the condition indicated in Genesis 1:2 and described in 2 Peter 3:5-6, for the earth was not created tohu (Is.45:18) but became so, as stated in the Hebrew of Gen. 1:2 and confirmed by 2 Peter 3:6, where "the world that then was by the word of God," (Gen.1:1) perished, and "the heavens and the earth which are now," by the same word" were created (Gen.2:4) and are kept in store," reserved unto fire against the day of judgment," (2 Peter 3:7) which shall usher in the "new heavens and the new earth" of 2 Peter 3:13.
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With the kataballo, the overthrow, God flooded the earth and that age ended. It was so violent that the plates, which had been one land mass, split. As proof....today we find the skeletons of African camels, rhino's, etc. in.....Nebraska!

The following is not scripture but, the "Book of Jasher" is quoted twice in the Old Testament. [Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18]. Some credence therefore should probably be given to....

Jasher was the son of Caleb, a contemporary of Moses. He was speaking of the creation and said in 1:4-5, "And the abyss fled before the face of the light, and divided between the light and the darkness. so that the face of nature was formed a second time."

Further Biblical proof of a previous age is found in....

Jeremiah 4:22-23 For My people is foolish, they have not know Me; they are sottish children and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was (became) without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

4:25-27 I beheld, and lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger. For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.


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We see that there was a previous age and God's anger destroyed it. Then "there was no man" and "no birds." This is not the flood of Noah being discussed. And, in that previous age....there were CITIES! This was the "casting down and overthrow," the "foundation" that has been kept secret. But, now we know.

What caused God's great anger? Why did He destroy His creation?



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[1whirlwind]

From the previous post we see that there was a world age before our present age. We saw that the world was destroyed in what is termed the....katabole, an intense throwing down of the earth. He destroyed all that was on it. Why? What or who caused His furious anger?

Tyrus means....rock. Our Saviour is The Rock of our salvation. Who is the fake rock?

Deuteronomy 32:4,31,33 He is the Rock, His work is perfect: For all His ways are judgment: A GOD of truth and without iniquity, Just and right is He. (31) For their rock is not as our Rock, Even our enemies themselves being judges (33) Their wine is the poison of dragons, And the cruel venom of asps.


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Satan...the dragon, the serpent is...the king of Tyrus the fake rock.

Ezekiel 28:12-13 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, 'Thus saith the Lord GOD; 'Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou has been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou was created.


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Satan, the king of Tyrus walked in Eden...this is before this present age. Notice that he was not born but was created.

28:14-15 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so; thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.


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God loved Satan and set him above all others until...iniquity was found in him. What did he do?

28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.


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What did he "traffick" in? Souls of men. His pompous pride and ego made him believe he was GOD or better than GOD. He wants the worship that belongs to our Father.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

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The buying and selling being spoken of is that of our souls....not peanut butter and jelly. That is the "trafficking" that brought Satan's downfall. Satan gathered souls, possibly through deception...just as he gathers many from God now, and there was a rebellion.

Ezekiel 28:2 "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, 'Thus saith the Lord GOD; 'Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, 'I am a GOD, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas;' yet thou art a man, and not GOD, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:


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Here we see he has been demoted....from king to prince. First age to this age. He is now, prince of this world.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.



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This was the reason for the overthrow, the katabole of the earth, when God destroyed it. Satan and his fellow rebelling angels fought against God and those that stood with Him. Instead of destroying His children He destroyed the age and began anew. But, this time...we are born in flesh bodies. In the first age we were all just as we will be in the next age....incorruptible spirit bodies. In our "created" bodies we are the same spirit/soul that has been from the beginning but in flesh during this age to see who we choose. Will it be Satan or our Father? Knowing that gives deeper meaning to...

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

3:5 Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of man Which is in heaven.


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We must pass through this life through a flesh birth. We must be "born again" and that means....born from above and not come to earth as the fallen angels did [Genesis 6 and Jude 6]. We must be born of water, the bag of waters from birth, and...of the spirit.

Some wonder about the elect and why they/we are predestined. It is because they/we are those that stood with Him in that rebellion. And, we will stand with Him again at the end of this age.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

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We have always been a soul but when we receive His breath of life....we are then a living soul, spiritually alive.

This world is ancient but this present age is much younger. The fossils we find belong to the animals and creatures of the previous age and we were there but we were not in flesh bodies...therefore no human skeletons dating from the previous age are found.



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[juvenissun]

What caused God's great anger? Why did He destroy His creation?



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I think the mixing of angel and human identity is strictly prohibited by God. I can sort-of-understand why. If this were true, then Satan is the only one on the back of this. And those poor (cheated) angels are probably locked up since then.

 

[juvenissun]

This world is ancient but this present age is much younger. The fossils we find belong to the animals and creatures of the previous age and we were there but we were not in flesh bodies...therefore no human skeletons dating from the previous age are found.



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Good model.

Thanks for finding the meaning of "katabole".

 

[Assyrian]

Good model.

Thanks for finding the meaning of "katabole".

Unfortunately that is not what what katabole means. There is a time for using etymology to find out what a word means. Occasionally you get words that aren't found outside one passage in the bible, so we don't know what the word means or how it was used. Lexicographers have to try to guess the meaning from the context and the etymological roots. This is not a very reliable method of finding the meaning because usage and meaning are often only distantly related to their etymology. Does 'invest your money' mean keeping it in the pocket of your waistcoat? Is a company's annual turnover the day when when the buildings are put upside down? You see we know what katabole means and how it was used when the NT was written, it does not refer to when the world was overthrown. The word is used for planting seeds (vegetable or human) and for laying foundations of buildings.
Check out the usage in the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

Most of us have been taught since childhood that the earth is six thousand years old, that Eve took a bite of an apple, that all men are from Adam and that Noah and his family were the only ones on the ark. NONE OF THAT IS TRUE! Concerning the beginning our Father tells us....
11 Peter 3:5-7 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Let us not be "willingly ignorant" of what He teaches. The previous world/age, the "world that then was"....PERISHED. This world age didn't perish with the flood of Noah. And the flood of Noah didn't upset the heavens but the previous destruction did!

2Pet 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Same word world here, Peter is not talking about a world age, what ever that is, but the world of the ungodly that was wiped out in Noah's flood.

Further Biblical proof of a previous age is found in....
Jeremiah 4:22-23 For My people is foolish, they have not know Me; they are sottish children and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was (became) without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

4:25-27 I beheld, and lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger. For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

That is one of the passage I was talking about, the gap theory claims it is talking about the world being destroyed before Gen 1:2, but if you read the context it is a warning about the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians.

Jer 4:3 For thus says the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem...
4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire...
5 Declare in Judah, and proclaim in Jerusalem....
6 Raise a standard toward Zion, flee for safety...
10 Then I said, "Ah, Lord GOD, surely you have utterly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, 'It shall be well with you,'...
11 At that time it will be said to this people and to Jerusalem, "A hot wind from the bare heights in the desert...
14 O Jerusalem, wash your heart from evil...
15 For a voice declares from Dan and proclaims trouble from Mount Ephraim.
16 Warn the nations that he is coming; announce to Jerusalem, "Besiegers come from a distant land; they shout against the cities of Judah...
18 Your ways and your deeds have brought this upon you...
31 For I heard a cry as of a woman in labour, anguish as of one giving birth to her first child, the cry of the daughter of Zion gasping for breath...

 

[1whirlwind]

Unfortunately that is not what what katabole means. There is a time for using etymology to find out what a word means. Occasionally you get words that aren't found outside one passage in the bible, so we don't know what the word means or how it was used. Lexicographers have to try to guess the meaning from the context and the etymological roots. This is not a very reliable method of finding the meaning because usage and meaning are often only distantly related to their etymology. Does 'invest your money' mean keeping it in the pocket of your waistcoat? Is a company's annual turnover the day when when the buildings are put upside down? You see we know what katabole means and how it was used when the NT was written, it does not refer to when the world was overthrown. The word is used for planting seeds (vegetable or human) and for laying foundations of buildings.
Check out the usage in the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

Please consider what I quoted. Therein you find the meaning of the foundation of the world as referenced in [Matthew 13]. It is the overthrow.

2Pet 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Same word world here, Peter is not talking about a world age, what ever that is, but the world of the ungodly that was wiped out in Noah's flood.

Please notice that [2 Peter 2] is about Noah. [ 2 Peter 3] concerns the first age. The world age that perished...the overthrow.

That is one of the passage I was talking about, the gap theory claims it is talking about the world being destroyed before Gen 1:2, but if you read the context it is a warning about the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians.

Jer 4:3 For thus says the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem...
4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire...
5 Declare in Judah, and proclaim in Jerusalem....
6 Raise a standard toward Zion, flee for safety...
10 Then I said, "Ah, Lord GOD, surely you have utterly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, 'It shall be well with you,'...
11 At that time it will be said to this people and to Jerusalem, "A hot wind from the bare heights in the desert...
14 O Jerusalem, wash your heart from evil...
15 For a voice declares from Dan and proclaims trouble from Mount Ephraim.
16 Warn the nations that he is coming; announce to Jerusalem, "Besiegers come from a distant land; they shout against the cities of Judah...
18 Your ways and your deeds have brought this upon you...
31 For I heard a cry as of a woman in labour, anguish as of one giving birth to her first child, the cry of the daughter of Zion gasping for breath...

When you read you find that God was indeed warning Jerusalem. He did that by giving them the example of what had previously happened...He often teaches by example.


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[singpeace]

Whirlwind,

After reading your first paragraph, I thought, "yeah, right". However, your argument is intriguing, and I agree with a lot of what you say. I would like to know if you have any sources for this information other than the Scriptures and the original Hebrew text. I am very interested in this.

With that said, I do not understand why you would claim that all men did not descend from Adam and that Noah and his family were notthe only survivors of the Great Flood. Can you explain why you made that statement?

 

[1whirlwind]

Whirlwind,

After reading your first paragraph, I thought, "yeah, right". However, your argument is intriguing, and I agree with a lot of what you say. I would like to know if you have any sources for this information other than the Scriptures and the original Hebrew text. I am very interested in this.

With that said, I do not understand why you would claim that all men did not descend from Adam and that Noah and his family were notthe only survivors of the Great Flood. Can you explain why you made that statement?

I too was very interested in this...it explains a great deal.

To answer your question about Noah not being the beginning of all races after the flood....

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
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Above God tells us that man is flesh and they are given the breath of life. He then instructs Noah.....

6:18-19 But with thee will I establish My covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

Genesis 7:13-16 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
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The flesh that was called man in the beginning of the chapter remained the flesh that went on the ark two by two. Not only was man "all flesh" but man had "the breath of life."

God didn't destroy all the races He created anymore than He destroyed all the beasts, cattle and fowl He created.


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[1whirlwind]

To answer your question about Adam not being the first human (he was the first man in the line to Christ but he was not the first human).....


Creation of mankind, the first humans...all races:

Genesis 1:24-28 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

1:31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

On the sixth day man(kind) was created and referred to as "them." Not "him" as it would be if this was the one man Adam. Also, we see that both male and female were created...that wasn't the case with Adam.
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The formation of the first man Adam....and then Eve:


Genesis 2:1-4 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,


2:5-7 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

2:20-23 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Adam was formed, not created, long after mankind. And later Eve was taken from his rib. Rib can be translated "curve." Could it be the helix curve, the DNA from Adam to form Eve? After all, she was taken from him and she was "bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh."

All races didn't come from one man and woman. All things are as they were. An Oriental man and Oriental woman will not give birth to a Caucasian baby. A Caucasian man and woman will not give birth to an Indian child. And....an ape male and female will not nor ever have given birth to a human, even when it is relegated to a long, long ago distant cousin ape.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

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[mark kennedy]

Most of us have been taught since childhood that the earth is six thousand years old, that Eve took a bite of an apple, that all men are from Adam and that Noah and his family were the only ones on the ark. NONE OF THAT IS TRUE!

According to Paul:

Sin came as the result of, 'many died by the trespass of the one man' (Rom. 5:15), 'judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation' (Rom. 5:16), the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man (Rom. 5:17), 'just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men' (Rom. 5:18), 'through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners' (Rom. 5:19).

Paul says repeatedly that sin was the result of one sin/trespass and Paul identifies that man as Adam.

Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. (II Peter 3:15.16)​

Concerning the beginning our Father tells us....

11 Peter 3:5-7 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
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Let us not be "willingly ignorant" of what He teaches. The previous world/age, the "world that then was"....PERISHED. This world age didn't perish with the flood of Noah.

Peter's reference here is to the Flood, there is no reason to conclude otherwise unless you are being 'willfully ignorant'.

And the flood of Noah didn't upset the heavens but the previous destruction did!

There is no reference to a previous destruction, yet another direct contradiction of the clear testimony of Scripture.

We begin at...the beginning:

Genesis 1:1-2 In the (a) beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was (became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.​

We aren't told when the "beginning" was. Science tells us it is millions or billions of years old. We don't know the age but it is obvious that it is not six thousand years. When God created everything He didn't create it "without form and void." Nor did He place darkness over the deep. Darkness is simply another name for Satan.

I've seen some pretty glaring errors but you seem to like to squeeze them into every paragraph. True, we don't know when the original creation occurred, there may have been a huge time gap between the original creation and the special creation on Earth. In fact, the clear, concise testimony of Scripture indicates exactly that. The narrative describes in a sentence the original creation followed closely but the description of the earth being, 'without form and void' and 'darkness upon the face of the deep'.

The world "that then was" was without His Light. We know it wasn't created in chaos for He tells us....

Not chaos, just void, without form, covered in darkness and water.

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD That created the heavens; God Himself That formed it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the LORD; and there is none else.
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That's right, God created the earth for a purpose. That does not reflect in any way on the narrative in Genesis which describes the process by which the heavens and earth were formed and later preparation for it to be inhabited. Finally when the earth is prepared for life, God creates living creatures.

In "vain" means...tohu and is the same word for "without form" used in Genesis 1:1. The earth became this way......

#8414 tohuw; from an unused root mean. to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; fig. a worthless thing; adv. in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.
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Isaiah says that the earth was created to be inhabited, it does not say how the earth was created. You are twisting the Scriptures shamelessly.

As you see, a great deal happened between the beginning, the very beginning, and the last part of Genesis 1:2 when, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." What happened and what caused that event? What happened to end that previous age, the one of the dinosaurs? We know there was one for....it is written! So, why and how?

The Scriptures are silent on that, now obsolete, catastrophe theory.

Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept SECRET FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

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What? The kingdom parables focused on Apostolic doctrine that would be foundational to Christian theism. There are no mysterious catastrophe theories here.

Foundation #2602 katabole, from 2598: a deposition, i.e. founding: fig. conception: - conceive, foundation. #2598 kataballo, from 2596 and 906: to throw down, cast down, descend, fall (down), lay. It comes from #2596 kata, which lists many applications but frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.

From a study by E.W. Bullinger about the "foundation."​

I happen to like Bullinger, are you going to twist his work as well?

There are two words translated "foundation" in the New Testament. 1. Themelios and 2.katabole. (snip) A comparison of various passages using the word, but especially [2 Corinthians 4:9 and Revelation 12:10] will show that kataballo and katabole are NOT the proper terms for founding and foundation, but the correct meaning is casting down, or overthrow. Accordingly, the noun katabole, derived from, and cognate with the verb, ought to be translated "disruption, or ruin."

The remarkable thing is that in all occurrences (except Heb.11:11) the word is connected with "the world," kosmos and therefore the expression should be rendered, "the disruption, or ruin, of the world, clearly referring to the condition indicated in Genesis 1:2 and described in 2 Peter 3:5-6, for the earth was not created tohu (Is.45:18) but became so, as stated in the Hebrew of Gen. 1:2 and confirmed by 2 Peter 3:6, where "the world that then was by the word of God," (Gen.1:1) perished, and "the heavens and the earth which are now," by the same word" were created (Gen.2:4) and are kept in store," reserved unto fire against the day of judgment," (2 Peter 3:7) which shall usher in the "new heavens and the new earth" of 2 Peter 3:13.

With the kataballo, the overthrow, God flooded the earth and that age ended. It was so violent that the plates, which had been one land mass, split. As proof....today we find the skeletons of African camels, rhino's, etc. in.....Nebraska!

I dunno but ok...

The following is not scripture but, the "Book of Jasher" is quoted twice in the Old Testament. [Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18]. Some credence therefore should probably be given to....

Jasher was the son of Caleb, a contemporary of Moses. He was speaking of the creation and said in 1:4-5, "And the abyss fled before the face of the light, and divided between the light and the darkness. so that the face of nature was formed a second time."

Sounds good to me, the first creation was the universe and the second was the preparation for the special creation of life.

Further Biblical proof of a previous age is found in....

Jeremiah 4:22-23 For My people is foolish, they have not know Me; they are sottish children and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was (became) without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.​

Speaking of the coming judgment from the north the prophet declares:

They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good.”

23 I looked at the earth,
and it was formless and empty;
and at the heavens,
and their light was gone.
24 I looked at the mountains,
and they were quaking;
all the hills were swaying.
25 I looked, and there were no people;
every bird in the sky had flown away.
26 I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;
all its towns lay in ruins
before the LORD, before his fierce anger.

27 This is what the LORD says:

“The whole land will be ruined,
though I will not destroy it completely. (Jer 4: 22-27)

We see that there was a previous age and God's anger destroyed it. Then "there was no man" and "no birds." This is not the flood of Noah being discussed. And, in that previous age....there were CITIES! This was the "casting down and overthrow," the "foundation" that has been kept secret. But, now we know.

No just the invasion from Babylon.

What caused God's great anger? Why did He destroy His creation?

“My people are fools;
they do not know me.
They are senseless children;
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good.” (Jer 4:22)

The passage in Jeremiah 4 is about the Babylonian invasion. The reference in 2 Peter is a direct reference to the Flood (deluge). The rest is you contradicting Scripture or twisting them to support some catastrophe theory.

Have a nice day
Mark​

 

[1whirlwind]

According to Paul:

Sin came as the result of, 'many died by the trespass of the one man' (Rom. 5:15), 'judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation' (Rom. 5:16), the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man (Rom. 5:17), 'just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men' (Rom. 5:18), 'through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners' (Rom. 5:19).

Paul says repeatedly that sin was the result of one sin/trespass and Paul identifies that man as Adam.

True. But that has nothing to do with mankind being on earth before Adam was formed. Remember, the reason for Adam was "there was no man to till the ground." In other words, Adam was formed to plant God's seeds of truth. The Adamic line is God's chosen family that led to Jesus.

Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. (II Peter 3:15.16)

​

Again...true. And yet some of us are to understand...and do.

11 Peter 3:5-7 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Peter's reference here is to the Flood, there is no reason to conclude otherwise unless you are being 'willfully ignorant'.

Please compare [2 Peter 2] with [2 Peter 3]. You will notice, if we aren't willfully ignorant, of the mention of two flood events. Both are covered in the OP.

There is no reference to a previous destruction, yet another direct contradiction of the clear testimony of Scripture.

Please read it again.

Genesis 1:1-2 In the (a) beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was (became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
​

I've seen some pretty glaring errors but you seem to like to squeeze them into every paragraph. True, we don't know when the original creation occurred, there may have been a huge time gap between the original creation and the special creation on Earth. In fact, the clear, concise testimony of Scripture indicates exactly that. The narrative describes in a sentence the original creation followed closely but the description of the earth being, 'without form and void' and 'darkness upon the face of the deep'.

He didn't create the world "without form and void." It became that way.

Not chaos, just void, without form, covered in darkness and water.

Perhaps you overlooked "the world that THEN WAS" and then "the world that IS NOW."

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD That created the heavens; God Himself That formed it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the LORD; and there is none else.

That's right, God created the earth for a purpose. That does not reflect in any way on the narrative in Genesis which describes the process by which the heavens and earth were formed and later preparation for it to be inhabited. Finally when the earth is prepared for life, God creates living creatures.

Isaiah says that the earth was created to be inhabited, it does not say how the earth was created. You are twisting the Scriptures shamelessly.


The Scriptures are silent on that, now obsolete, catastrophe theory.



What? The kingdom parables focused on Apostolic doctrine that would be foundational to Christian theism. There are no mysterious catastrophe theories here.



I happen to like Bullinger, are you going to twist his work as well?







I dunno but ok...



Sounds good to me, the first creation was the universe and the second was the preparation for the special creation of life.



Speaking of the coming judgment from the north the prophet declares:

They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good.”

23 I looked at the earth,
and it was formless and empty;
and at the heavens,
and their light was gone.
24 I looked at the mountains,
and they were quaking;
all the hills were swaying.
25 I looked, and there were no people;
every bird in the sky had flown away.
26 I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert;
all its towns lay in ruins
before the LORD, before his fierce anger.

27 This is what the LORD says:

“The whole land will be ruined,
though I will not destroy it completely. (Jer 4: 22-27)




No just the invasion from Babylon.



“My people are fools;
they do not know me.
They are senseless children;
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good.” (Jer 4:22)

The passage in Jeremiah 4 is about the Babylonian invasion. The reference in 2 Peter is a direct reference to the Flood (deluge). The rest is you contradicting Scripture or twisting them to support some catastrophe theory.

Have a nice day
Mark

If you would ever care to discuss this without accusing me of twisting scripture please do. Until then...Have a nice day

 

[Faith.Man]

Most of us have been taught since childhood that the earth is six thousand years old, that Eve took a bite of an apple, that all men are from Adam and that Noah and his family were the only ones on the ark. NONE OF THAT IS TRUE! Concerning the beginning our Father tells us....

11 Peter 3:5-7 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
​

Let us not be "willingly ignorant" of what He teaches. The previous world/age, the "world that then was"....PERISHED. This world age didn't perish with the flood of Noah. And the flood of Noah didn't upset the heavens but the previous destruction did! We begin at...the beginning:

Genesis 1:1-2 In the (a) beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was (became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
​

We aren't told when the "beginning" was. Science tells us it is millions or billions of years old. We don't know the age but it is obvious that it is not six thousand years. When God created everything He didn't create it "without form and void." Nor did He place darkness over the deep. Darkness is simply another name for Satan. The world "that then was" was without His Light. We know it wasn't created in chaos for He tells us....

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD That created the heavens; God Himself That formed it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the LORD; and there is none else.
​

In "vain" means...tohu and is the same word for "without form" used in Genesis 1:1. The earth became this way......

#8414 tohuw; from an unused root mean. to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; fig. a worthless thing; adv. in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.
​

As you see, a great deal happened between the beginning, the very beginning, and the last part of Genesis 1:2 when, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." What happened and what caused that event? What happened to end that previous age, the one of the dinosaurs? We know there was one for....it is written! So, why and how?

Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept SECRET FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

Foundation #2602 katabole, from 2598: a deposition, i.e. founding: fig. conception: - conceive, foundation. #2598 kataballo, from 2596 and 906: to throw down, cast down, descend, fall (down), lay. It comes from #2596 kata, which lists many applications but frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.
​

From a study by E.W. Bullinger about the "foundation."

There are two words translated "foundation" in the New Testament. 1. Themelios and 2.katabole. (snip) A comparison of various passages using the word, but especially [2 Corinthians 4:9 and Revelation 12:10] will show that kataballo and katabole are NOT the proper terms for founding and foundation, but the correct meaning is casting down, or overthrow. Accordingly, the noun katabole, derived from, and cognate with the verb, ought to be translated "disruption, or ruin."

The remarkable thing is that in all occurrences (except Heb.11:11) the word is connected with "the world," kosmos and therefore the expression should be rendered, "the disruption, or ruin, of the world, clearly referring to the condition indicated in Genesis 1:2 and described in 2 Peter 3:5-6, for the earth was not created tohu (Is.45:18) but became so, as stated in the Hebrew of Gen. 1:2 and confirmed by 2 Peter 3:6, where "the world that then was by the word of God," (Gen.1:1) perished, and "the heavens and the earth which are now," by the same word" were created (Gen.2:4) and are kept in store," reserved unto fire against the day of judgment," (2 Peter 3:7) which shall usher in the "new heavens and the new earth" of 2 Peter 3:13.
​

With the kataballo, the overthrow, God flooded the earth and that age ended. It was so violent that the plates, which had been one land mass, split. As proof....today we find the skeletons of African camels, rhino's, etc. in.....Nebraska!

The following is not scripture but, the "Book of Jasher" is quoted twice in the Old Testament. [Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18]. Some credence therefore should probably be given to....

Jasher was the son of Caleb, a contemporary of Moses. He was speaking of the creation and said in 1:4-5, "And the abyss fled before the face of the light, and divided between the light and the darkness. so that the face of nature was formed a second time."

Further Biblical proof of a previous age is found in....

Jeremiah 4:22-23 For My people is foolish, they have not know Me; they are sottish children and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was (became) without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

4:25-27 I beheld, and lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger. For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

​

We see that there was a previous age and God's anger destroyed it. Then "there was no man" and "no birds." This is not the flood of Noah being discussed. And, in that previous age....there were CITIES! This was the "casting down and overthrow," the "foundation" that has been kept secret. But, now we know.

What caused God's great anger? Why did He destroy His creation?

.

This is very good explanation of the Ruin-Reconstruction Theory (or Gap Theory as I refer to it). Excellent presentation and well reasoned.

 

[Faith.Man]

This was the reason for the overthrow, the katabole of the earth, when God destroyed it. Satan and his fellow rebelling angels fought against God and those that stood with Him. Instead of destroying His children He destroyed the age and began anew. But, this time...we are born in flesh bodies. In the first age we were all just as we will be in the next age....incorruptible spirit bodies. In our "created" bodies we are the same spirit/soul that has been from the beginning but in flesh during this age to see who we choose. Will it be Satan or our Father? Knowing that gives deeper meaning to...

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

3:5 Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from heaven, even the Son of man Which is in heaven.

​

We must pass through this life through a flesh birth. We must be "born again" and that means....born from above and not come to earth as the fallen angels did [Genesis 6 and Jude 6]. We must be born of water, the bag of waters from birth, and...of the spirit.

Some wonder about the elect and why they/we are predestined. It is because they/we are those that stood with Him in that rebellion. And, we will stand with Him again at the end of this age.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

​

We have always been a soul but when we receive His breath of life....we are then a living soul, spiritually alive.

This world is ancient but this present age is much younger. The fossils we find belong to the animals and creatures of the previous age and we were there but we were not in flesh bodies...therefore no human skeletons dating from the previous age are found.

This is where you lost me. I thought your first post was excellent. It seems like this post is trying to lead to a conclusion that we lived previously in a different form. This deviates from the Gap Theory as I know it and believe it. We are predestined simply because God is Sovereign.

 

[Faith.Man]

To answer your question about Adam not being the first human (he was the first man in the line to Christ but he was not the first human).....

Creation of mankind, the first humans...all races:

Genesis 1:24-28 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

1:31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

On the sixth day man(kind) was created and referred to as "them." Not "him" as it would be if this was the one man Adam. Also, we see that both male and female were created...that wasn't the case with Adam.
​

The formation of the first man Adam....and then Eve:


Genesis 2:1-4 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,


2:5-7 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

2:20-23 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Adam was formed, not created, long after mankind. And later Eve was taken from his rib. Rib can be translated "curve." Could it be the helix curve, the DNA from Adam to form Eve? After all, she was taken from him and she was "bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh."

All races didn't come from one man and woman. All things are as they were. An Oriental man and Oriental woman will not give birth to a Caucasian baby. A Caucasian man and woman will not give birth to an Indian child. And....an ape male and female will not nor ever have given birth to a human, even when it is relegated to a long, long ago distance cousin ape.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.​

​

Seems like a lot of supposition here without proof. I believe the Gap Theory, as I understand it, and this ain't it.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
Romans 5:13 - for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [NASB]

To believe as you do, we would have to believe that no other "men" sinned before Adam. That would be contrary to Scripture.

 

[1whirlwind]

This is where you lost me. I thought your first post was excellent. It seems like this post is trying to lead to a conclusion that we lived previously in a different form. This deviates from the Gap Theory as I know it and believe it. We are predestined simply because God is Sovereign.

The previous world age, which some term the "gap theory," (and I term truth as written, ) only explains what happened...not why it happened. I'm not saying we lived in a different form for we are the same spirit/soul we were in that age...only in this age we are encased in a flesh body.

As Christians we know that when we physically die we continue to live, truly live. Our spirit/soul steps out of our flesh body. It returns to dust and we, our true selves, are with Him:

Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
​

Knowing that, it isn't too much to acknowledge that this same spirit/soul presently in our flesh bodies existed before. That allows us to understand....

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


Romans 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

​

As we know that God "is no respecter of persons," [Acts 10:24] then would He glorify, justify and predestine just anyone to be in the "image of His Son," while others were not? No, for He tells us that He foreknew His elect. When, if not the previous age? Consider too that Satan was already in his fallen state when he first made his appearance in the garden. When did he fall if not the previous age, in "the world that then was?" [2 Peter 3:6] Why did the "world that was" come to it's ruined state if not through the actions of it's inhabitants?

Ecclesiastes 1:10-11 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.
​

The time before us is erased from our memory....we are given a clean slate in this age to choose Him, or not. His elect are called and chosen to allow Him to abide in us in order to guide others to His Light. There we see Elect and Free Will. As there is "no remembrance of former things," things "of old time," neither will there be remembrance of those that God shall blot out. No tears, no remembering of them by those "that shall come after."

.

 

[1whirlwind]

[/indent][/indent]Seems like a lot of supposition here without proof. I believe the Gap Theory, as I understand it, and this ain't it.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
Romans 5:13 - for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [NASB]

To believe as you do, we would have to believe that no other "men" sinned before Adam. That would be contrary to Scripture.

Your quotes tell the story FaithMan. Before Adam's formation men sinned, for "all sinned." But, the law wasn't yet "in the world" so "sin is not imputed when there is no law." With Adam came death from sin. That tells me that although Moses provided written law, Adam gave us the spoken law.

Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
​

In other words, sin didn't count against the person until Adam's formation. He walked with God....He was to till the ground...He was to teach truth to others. With him accountability to one's sins was "imputed."


.

 

[1whirlwind]

In the OP I quoted part of Jeremiah where He tells us of the cities broken down "by His fierce anger." I wanted to delve a little deeper into it....

Jeremiah 4:22-27 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

​

That speaks of the destruction of the first earth age which He destroyed in His anger. He tells us all the land "shall be desolate" but still He didn't destroy all of it.

Further proof of this "previous first age" complete with it's "all the cities thereof," was shown to me in a program I watched yesterday. It filmed underwater and underground cities that are being discovered....dated long before scientist credit man with even have "evolved" into man.

There was an age before ours...complete with cities and technology. It was destroyed...lay desolate, probably through the ice age....began anew not too long ago and....here we are just as He created us.

.

 

[Greg1234]

Further proof of this "previous first age" complete with it's "all the cities thereof," was shown to me in a program I watched yesterday. It filmed underwater and underground cities that are being discovered....dated long before scientist credit man with even have "evolved" into man.

Interesting. The program "ancient aliens" also provides evidence of these cities. The only thing is they attribute it solely to alien life since man could never have been that advanced.

 

[1whirlwind]

Interesting. The program "ancient aliens" also provides evidence of these cities. The only thing is they attribute it solely to alien life since man could never have been that advanced.

That is the program I watched Greg. It's a very interesting series, especially since I am a firm believer in aliens. But you have to wade through the evolution of man, God being a space alien, we're from the DNA of alien beings, etc.

The answers are in the Bible....He tells us about the previous age, He tells us the earth is ancient, He tells us many things that fit well with science as well as things that don't...evolution being one. But, scientist won't let go of evolution and creationist won't let go of a young earth.


.

 

[Assyrian]

In the OP I quoted part of Jeremiah where He tells us of the cities broken down "by His fierce anger." I wanted to delve a little deeper into it....

Jeremiah 4:22-27 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

​

That speaks of the destruction of the first earth age which He destroyed in His anger. He tells us all the land "shall be desolate" but still He didn't destroy all of it.

Further proof of this "previous first age" complete with it's "all the cities thereof," was shown to me in a program I watched yesterday. It filmed underwater and underground cities that are being discovered....dated long before scientist credit man with even have "evolved" into man.

There was an age before ours...complete with cities and technology. It was destroyed...lay desolate, probably through the ice age....began anew not too long ago and....here we are just as He created us.

.

So in spite of all the verses where Jeremiah tells you he is taking about Jerusalem and Judah, you prefer to think the cities he is talking about existed long before God created mankind? Jer 4:16 Warn the nations that he is coming; announce to Jerusalem, "Besiegers come from a distant land; they shout against the cities of Judah.