• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The beginning and the end.

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
13,486
5,544
USA
✟714,588.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
@Bob S
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3

showing mercy to thousands who love Me and keep My commandments Exodus 20:6

If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,496
7,600
North Carolina
✟349,186.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Christian principles:

The Mosaic (Old) Covenant is obsolete. (Hebrews 8:13)

"Love fulfills the law and whatever other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,636
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,349.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Christian principles: The Mosaic (Old) Covenant is obsolete. (Hebrews 8:13) "Love fulfills the law and whatever other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10)
According to the scriptures, love is not separate from obedience to God's law. According to the scriptures love is obedience to Gods' law from a new heart and is linked into Gods' new covenant promise. Let's look at the detail. According to Jesus love is not separate from Gods' law. Love is expressed in obeying God's law from the heart which is a part of Gods' new covenant promise written in Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; and Ezekiel 36:24-27.

This is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 that "on these two commandments" of love to God and man "Hang all the law and the prophets." Love to God and man is not separate from obedience to God's law. Love is obedience to Gods' law. This is in agreement to what Paul says in Romans 13:8-10 where he shows that love to our neighbor is obeying all of those commandments in God's 10 commandments that are our duty of love to our fellow man. Paul agreeing with Jesus goes on to show if we love our neighbor as our self we will not commit adultery, we will not kill, we will not steal, we will not bear false witness, we will not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

So love is obeying God's law not breaking it. James also agrees with Jesus and Paul when he says if we show partiality in love it is the same as showing partiality in keeping God's 10 commandments and the result is standing guilty before God of sin in James 2:8-12. John is also in agreement with Jesus, Paul and James when he defines love as obeying Gods' commandments in 1 John 5:2-3. So no one here can claim to love God by breaking Gods' law. If we are practicing sin and breaking Gods' law that is a sign that we do not love God. *John 14:21 as love is not just a feeling separate from our actions *John 14:15.

If we love God therefore according to Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-3; John 14:21 and John 14:15
  • Will we have other Gods?
  • Will we make idols and worship them?
  • Will we take his name [follow] him in vain?
  • Will we remember his seventh day Sabbath and keep it holy?
If we love our neighbour therefore according to Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-3; John 14:21 and John 14:15
  • Will we honor our parents?
  • Will we murder?
  • Will we commit adultery with our neighbor's spouse?
  • Will we steal from them?
  • Will we lie to them?
  • Will we covet what they own?
Now if your answer is no then you agree with me. If your answer is yes what kind of love are you talking about where breaking any of Gods' 10 commandments is loving God or loving our fellow man? Yet the above is only what Jesus is telling us in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3 (see also 1 John 3:6-9; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; Romans 6:1-23 and 1 John 2:3-4).

..............

According to the scriptures, love is not separate from our actions. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

Your may also want to consider that Jesus saves us from the inside out which is why we need to be born again *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4 into God's new covenant promise through faith to receive a new heart to love and walk in His Spirit *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:2-4; Galatians 5:16.

Take Care.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
13,486
5,544
USA
✟714,588.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Amen! Great post LGW.
 
Reactions: LoveGodsWord
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,496
7,600
North Carolina
✟349,186.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
True faith saves.
True faith obeys.

But it is not faith's obedience which saves nor justifies (makes righteous), it is only faith itself, apart from faith's works which saves (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4:2) and justifies (Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28; Romans 4:3, Romans 4:5; Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11).

And that's because "Salvation is the Lord's!" (Revelation 7:10, Revelation 19:1),
his and his alone! (Revelation 4:11, Revelation 7:12)
Man cannot say he contributed anything. . .whatsoever! (Ephesians 2:9; Romans 4:2).
For God neither gives to nor shares his glory with another! (Isaiah 48:5, Isaiah 42:8).

Having been to the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-8) and given understanding of its importance and necessity, Paul is most emphatic that salvation and justification are apart from faith's works (Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4:2; Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20-21; Galatians 2:16, Galatians 3:11), which necessary works, however, lead to righteousness (Romans 6:16) leading to holiness (Romans 6:19) of sanctification, which is God's will for the believer (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

This is where love of neighbor fulfills the law and more, for the law only proscribes (much of which is criminal behavior), while love prescribes.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Leaf473
Upvote 0

daq

Messianic
Jan 26, 2012
5,128
1,155
Devarim 11:21
Visit site
✟179,958.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Christian principles:

The Mosaic (Old) Covenant is obsolete. (Hebrews 8:13)

"Love fulfills the law and whatever other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10)

Didn't you just suggest to me in another thread that this is not what you believe? And look at the response you received from LGW in the post (#23) immediately below yours: it begins with scriptural meanings and examples pertaining to what God in His Word actually means by "love", the same thing we were just discussing in the other thread. Enough said.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,496
7,600
North Carolina
✟349,186.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Didn't you just suggest to me in another thread that this is not what you believe?
No. . .

You are misunderstanding something somewhere.

Perhaps you mistook the word order of my question there: "Did Christ not. . ."
to be a statement: "Christ did not. . ."
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

sparow

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2014
2,737
452
86
✟570,419.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single


Isaiah 44:1 - 6 is useful and should shed light for them that have trouble identifying what the commandments are.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,397
11,931
Georgia
✟1,099,336.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
This is where the teaching starts to break down for me. I can't find anyone who will specify what those commandments are.
.

Until you found The "Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19" and then "the Westminster Confession of Faith - Section 19" and then D.L. Moody's sermon on the Ten Commandments.. etc as we discussed many times before.

All of which make it clear and obvious that the TEN are included in the Law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34

so 'yeah, except for that"

I hear what you're saying, but all I'm asking you to do is specify those other commandments,

I thought you said you also reject the TEN as being included in those commands that still apply. Have you now changed on that position of yours?
 
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,302
2,555
55
Northeast
✟241,064.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't think those two confessions list all of the commandments that we are to keep today. Do you believe that they do? That's where the teaching that says keep only parts of the law of Moses starts to break down, in my experience.

The key point is the word "all". That's what the OP uses.

I think we are to keep all of the law of Moses in principle, but none of the letters of it are binding on us today. So Yes, I accept the principles of the ten commandments, but I reject the idea that we are to follow the letters of those commandments.

If I remember correctly, you like to focus on the letters of the ten commandments. If you would like to go ahead and list the letters of the rest of the commandments from the law of Moses that you keep, that would be great!

May the Lord bless you and keep you.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,397
11,931
Georgia
✟1,099,336.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I don't think those two confessions list all of the commandments that we are to keep today.

Do you accept that they specify the TEN as being included?

Why then do we find this in your post...

Leaf473 said:
This is where the teaching starts to break down for me. I can't find anyone who will specify what those commandments are.

Did you mean to post " I can't find anyone who will specify what those commandments are - other than the TEN"???

I think we are to keep all of the law of Moses in principle, but none of the letters of it are binding

so don't keep what the words actually say when you see them on paper - but still "keep" the Law???

I agree that you probably don't find anyone saying that.

How about the NT? The Gospels? Are you ok with the Gospels when you see the text written on paper???
 
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,302
2,555
55
Northeast
✟241,064.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes, I agree that those two confessions include the ten commandments.

If you look at the context of post #2 which you are quoting, you will see that the part of the OP that I quoted talks about all the commandments. That's the key word, All.

That would include the 10 and all the rest.

Do I have to keep saying In addition to the 10?

The vast majority of Christians keep the principles in the law of Moses, but not the letters imo. Putting that into words may be too abstract for a lot of people, so I agree that you don't hear them talking about it.

But as far as a discussion between you and me goes, if you are saying that we are to keep the letters of the ten commandments plus some others, the place where keeping the letter of the law breaks down is most easily seen in the Plus some others part.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,397
11,931
Georgia
✟1,099,336.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Yes, I agree that those two confessions include the ten commandments.

Ok -- so nice to agree on some of the basics.

Did you mean to post " I can't find anyone who will specify what those commandments are - other than the TEN"???

Do I have to keep saying In addition to the 10?

If you are going to keep posting "no one will tell me what the commandments are" and then get reminded of those confessions of faith stating that the TEN are included - only to respond "ok ... well then... besides the ten"... then maybe you should let the reader know about that caveat in your post.


The vast majority of Christians keep the principles in the law of Moses, but not the letters imo.

so then "do not take God's name in vain" you're arguing that they actually do take God's name in vain technically (as per "the letter of the law") - while still being in perfect compliance with that command "in principle"??

Maybe you can explain that.
 
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,302
2,555
55
Northeast
✟241,064.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think most readers understood that the OP wasn't referring to things like animal sacrifices when he quoted the verse that talks about All my commandments.

In many cases keeping the principle of a law will overlap with keeping the letter. So a person who keeps the principle of not murdering will virtually always keep the letter of that law as well. But the focus is on the principle.

(I think the commandment about not taking God's name in vain is a hard example to talk about since no one today knows what God's name is for sure. I can't imagine how someone would actually break the letter of that law.)

Here's a law from Deuteronomy 26. Most Christians I know are in favor of giving to God. I don't know of anyone who keeps this law to the letter.

12 When you have made an end of tithing all the tithe of your increase in the third year, which is the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the foreigner, to the fatherless, and to the widow, that they may eat within your gates, and be filled. 13You shall say before the LORD your God, "I have put away the holy things out of my house, and also have given them to the Levite, and to the foreigner, to the fatherless, and to the widow, according to all your commandment which you have commanded me: I have not transgressed any of your commandments, neither have I forgotten them: 14I have not eaten of it in my mourning, neither have I put away of it, being unclean, nor given of it for the dead: I have listened to the voice of the LORD my God; I have done according to all that you have commanded me. 15Look down from your holy habitation, from heaven, and bless your people Israel, and the ground which you have given us, as you swore to our fathers, a land flowing with milk and honey."
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,397
11,931
Georgia
✟1,099,336.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I think most readers understood that the OP wasn't referring to things like animal sacrifices when he quoted the verse that talks about All my commandments.

Probably so. Most would read it thinking that the OP affirmed the Ten Commandments but would never imagine he meant "well not the Ten as in what they actually say when you see them written... but just in some vague principle fashion".

It would have been pretty hard to read that one into the OP.
 
Reactions: Leaf473
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,397
11,931
Georgia
✟1,099,336.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
(I think the commandment about not taking God's name in vain is a hard example to talk about since no one today knows what God's name is for sure. I can't imagine how someone would actually break the letter of that law.)

Turns out - that's not true. Almost everyone knows what this means and it is so blatantly obvious that even the non-Christians being interviewed on the street by Ray Comfort in those videos on "Way of the Master" ministry web site -- all seem to understand the point perfectly. Not nearly as mysterious as some may have hoped.
 
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,302
2,555
55
Northeast
✟241,064.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That's why I brought up what happens as I follow out the OP's train of thought.
 
Upvote 0

Leaf473

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2020
9,302
2,555
55
Northeast
✟241,064.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It's a very popular misconception that Lord or God are God's names. Of course, they are titles.

God's name is written as foir Hebrew consonants. As far as I know, no one knows for sure how to pronounce it.
________________________
Would you like to address the passage from Deuteronomy 26 above?
 
Upvote 0