The Basics of the Christian Faith

[JVAC]

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

God did not say they would be sick..He said ON THAT DAY they would die.

Now we know they did not physically die , so what did God mean?

I think the answer is found in the following verses.

Adam wished to be his own god, so he believed the lie.He rebelled against God

Adam, that had walked with God in the garden , now hid from Him. Man no longer sought God. He tried to remedy his sin himself..with leaves from the garden to cover them . When when confronted by his sin he refused to admit responsibility ..(it was the woman YOU gave me.) not only was he not responsibility it was Gods fault.


Man had died that day spiritually. He was no longer alive to God .

I don't really accpet this, the hebrew word yowm could have been interpreted to mean age, or a length of time. God could have said, you will surely die in a length of time. Man didn't necessarily have to die 'spiritually' for the curse was, from dust, and to dust thou shallt return. This is a litteral death of the body. Thus we are doomed to die for our sin.

 

[A. believer]

On this post, I want to discuss precisely what the Reformers meant by the term sola fide. Sola fide is a reference to the idea that it's through "faith alone" that the believer is justified. Before the Reformation, there was no defined doctrine of justification in the church. It wasn't until the Reformation that the doctrine of justification first became an issue in the church. What Martin Luther and the Reformers pointed out, was that the language of justification in Scripture was used forensically. In other words, Paul's references to the believer's justification referred to an official verdict from a judge. When God declares us just, he's saying that we're "not guilty" in His sight. Since God is a holy and righteous God, the only way in which we can be declared not guilty of our sin is if our sin is not imputed to us, and instead, perfect righteousness is imputed to us. The Reformers proved from Scripture that we're declared just, because our sin was imputed to Christ, and Christ's righteousness is imputed to us. Therefore, we can have peace with God because God has declared us just based upon the imputed righteousness of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The incarnate Christ perfectly fulfilled the law of righteousness, and it's His righteousness that is "credited to our account," and not our own, since our sin renders us unrighteous.

This doctrine of imputed righteousness is not to be confused, though, with the doctrine of sanctification. The Reformers never taught that God declared us righteous and then just left us as sinful as we were before. At the moment we're justified, God begins the work of sanctification whereby we're being daily conformed to the image of Christ. It's this work of sanctification that we, as believers, are required to actively cooperate with. But in no way does anything we do or not do contribute to or detract from our justification.

To sum it up, the doctrine of sola fide refers to the doctrines of forensic justification and imputed righteousness. We're legally declared not guilty because of an alien righteousness (the righteousness of Christ, and not our own righteousness) having been credited to us through the means of genuine saving faith.

What then shall we say that Abraham our father* has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was *accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but </I>as debt.
David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin."*(Romans 4:1-7)
​

 

[drstevej]

The Reformers proved from Scripture that we're declared just, because our sin was imputed to Christ, and Christ's righteousness is imputed to us. Therefore, we can have peace with God because God has declared us just based upon the imputed righteousness of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Excellent post on the doctrine of justification. An excellent book on the topic is Lowell C. Green, How Melancthon Helped Luther Discover the Gospel. Greene points out that Melancthons classical language training helped Luther grasp the forensic nature of justtification.

Forensic justification alone yields assurrance of salvation since we are declared righteous based on his work FOR us, and not IN us (sanctification).

 

[Arc]

But in no way does anything we do or not do contribute to or detract from our justification.

I don't understand how this can be correct though.

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder. 20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

You are contradicting this well known passage for the sake of a man made doctrine. If you throw James out, then why cannot someone throw Paul out? Then who is correct? Wouldn't both have done damage to the Bible?

This passage in James is not a contradiction. I see that it conforms to the rest of the Bible just fine.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

1 Tim 6:7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses. 13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ

The Gospel includes obedience. It is a sign of inward faith. This is what James is getting at. If your faith is "mental" that's great. But if faith doesn't manifest itself outwardly it is not a saving faith.

1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our

Explained beautifully above is the need to repent because we all have sinned, accept Jesus Christ because his sacrifice removes our sin, and the realization that all who believe become desiples and walk in the light (obey). How can faith alone save us if our actions deny our faith?

Titus 1:16
They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

And, If our actions (either + or -) have no effect on our justification and can not lead to loss of salvation, then how can ones actions show that they deny God? ("By their fruit you will know them") And what about what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23? Paul says that Jesus will deal out retobution to those who do not obey the Gospel. (2 Thes 1:8)

The point is simple, faith is revealed in works of obedience. We are saved by faith. If there is not an outward change as well, then we were either perfect to begin with (not possible) or we have no faith.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I think that the point being made is that we cannot do the works necessary to obey without first having the faith. We know that faith without works is dead so we can conclude that the works come by the faith, and it is through those works that we see the faith that James is referring to. We do not have the capacity for these works prior to salvation so it is only through faith that we are able to accomplish them. This would mean that the works are not of ourselves as the faith is imparted by grace. This still complies with Sola Fide as the works are a result of the faith, and without the faith we are not capable of those works. It is by faith alone that we are able to do anything that pleases God, the faith imparted by grace.

 

[InquisitorKind]

You are contradicting this well known passage for the sake of a man made doctrine. If you throw James out, then why cannot someone throw Paul out? Then who is correct? Wouldn't both have done damage to the Bible?

I would be willing to discuss this with you here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t84815&page=1

As you can see, I've already made some opening comments on the subject.

How can faith alone save us if our actions deny our faith?

Salvation and justification are two different concepts. Justification is through faith alone.

And, If our actions (either + or -) have no effect on our justification and can not lead to loss of salvation, then how can ones actions show that they deny God? ("By their fruit you will know them") And what about what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23? Paul says that Jesus will deal out retobution to those who do not obey the Gospel. (2 Thes 1:8)

As I said earlier, I'd be willing to discuss this with you on the other thread, as I gather the OP is to post Christian truths in line with PRE, not debate them.

~Matt

 

[A. believer]

I don't understand how this can be correct though.



You are contradicting this well known passage for the sake of a man made doctrine. If you throw James out, then why cannot someone throw Paul out? Then who is correct? Wouldn't both have done damage to the Bible?

This passage in James is not a contradiction. I see that it conforms to the rest of the Bible just fine.



The Gospel includes obedience. It is a sign of inward faith. This is what James is getting at. If your faith is "mental" that's great. But if faith doesn't manifest itself outwardly it is not a saving faith.



Explained beautifully above is the need to repent because we all have sinned, accept Jesus Christ because his sacrifice removes our sin, and the realization that all who believe become desiples and walk in the light (obey). How can faith alone save us if our actions deny our faith?



And, If our actions (either + or -) have no effect on our justification and can not lead to loss of salvation, then how can ones actions show that they deny God? ("By their fruit you will know them") And what about what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23? Paul says that Jesus will deal out retobution to those who do not obey the Gospel. (2 Thes 1:8)

The point is simple, faith is revealed in works of obedience. We are saved by faith. If there is not an outward change as well, then we were either perfect to begin with (not possible) or we have no faith.

InquisitorKind already responded to you and graciously offered to discuss the points you brought up on another thread, and I extend to you the same offer. Although there's been some debating on this thread, that wasn't what the thread was started for, and I think it best to keep the debating to other threads.

 

[Jason1646]

In my time here I have seen many of the less knowledgable in the PRE have their faith ripped away by those who attack strawmen and misconseptions, that many unfortunately hold of their own faith. I have seen many leave, and only know of one who converted to the evangelical faith. This has made me very sad, and has prompted me to think of leaving. I have yet to decide if the course of this forum requires me to stay or to leave. But on to the subject at hand. I believe that the most lacking thing in this forum is clear and in depth explainations of the basics, that sadly many do not understand. So, I would politely ask that those who are not orthodox Protestants, ie Evangelical/Reformed, not to debate the contents of this thread.

Here is a beginning list of what I think are the most urgently needed:
Sola Scriptura - which is one of the most frequently attacked, and most frequenty misunderstood
Sola Gratia and Sola Fide
The sinful nature of man


I'm going to start on these today after I get back from school. I would really love it if the experts here would help me out. You know who you are

Greetings Lotar,

For what it's worth, I don't believe the lack of clarity and precision about doctrinal issues is unique to this board. It seems to me to be an unfortunate phenomenon of Internet discussion boards in general. I could wish that a little more critical thinking went before the endless reams of posts that merely repeat assertions over and over again. A little wisdom from Proverbs would go a long way here:

Proverbs 17:27 He who has knowledge spares his words, And a man of understanding is of a calm spirit.

Proverbs 29:20 Do you see a man hasty in his words? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

But to get to your specific questions, I will briefly write a one-line polemic for Sola Scriptura. It is my belief that any one of these points is demonstrable from Scripture, yielding the final result.

Since we are not to do what is right in our own eyes, but to heed the Word of the Lord, neither adding or taking away from it; and since the prophetic and apostolic offices have ceased with the death of the last apostle, the Scriptures are the only inerrant testimony of God’s revealed will unto us and therefore they are to be the only infallible rule for faith and life.

Okay, so its a run-on sentence, but Paul has some of the biggest run-on sentences I have ever seen, so I have some good company.

Blessings Lotar,

~Jason

 

[Jason1646]

.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good day, Jason

"Since we are not to do what is right in our own eyes, but to heed the Word of the Lord, neither adding or taking away from it; and since the prophetic and apostolic offices have ceased with the death of the last apostle, the Scriptures are the only inerrant testimony of God’s revealed will unto us and therefore they are to be the only infallible rule for faith and life."


Great quote it is yours? Also I see here that the word used to describe the Scripture is inerrant and not infallible why is that? I know in the present day these two words are interchangable, but I have heard some try to explain their the distict qualities of each of them and often get confused by this.

Thank you,

BBAS

 

[Jason1646]

Good day, Jason

"Since we are not to do what is right in our own eyes, but to heed the Word of the Lord, neither adding or taking away from it; and since the prophetic and apostolic offices have ceased with the death of the last apostle, the Scriptures are the only inerrant testimony of God’s revealed will unto us and therefore they are to be the only infallible rule for faith and life."


Great quote it is yours? Also I see here that the word used to describe the Scripture is inerrant and not infallible why is that? I know in the present day these two words are interchangable, but I have heard some try to explain their the distict qualities of each of them and often get confused by this.

Thank you,

BBAS

Hi Bill,

There is no profound reason for using inerrant in place of infallible, except that sometimes I have seen people get confused with infallible by making it overly subjective (that is, confusing ones ability to misinterpret Scripture with Scripture itself being incapable of error). By using inerrant, I thought that I could better point to its objective qualities, even though infallible would work just as well.

Thanks, and you're very welcome.

~Jason