The babel tower

purity2holiness · Apr 16, 2013

the atmospheric layer is hight up to about 100km and it is known that breathing is impossible out of that layer;

Now, the Bible tells us in Genesis 11:4-7

"4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
"
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Here, humans decided to build a tower whose top reaches heaven; my questions are:
-could that building have reached at least 100km height?
-we know that after 100km breathing becomes difficult, could those men have reached their goal of reaching heaven?
-we also know about the universe and others planets made by God, this make us believe that heaven is far above 100km as must planets are separated by thousands or millions km....how could have these men reached heaven with brick building? can brick walls stand above 100km?
-why did the Lord react that way? He who knows everything?

yeshuasavedme · Apr 16, 2013

purity2holiness said:
the atmospheric layer is hight up to about 100km and it is known that breathing is impossible out of that layer;

Now, the Bible tells us in Genesis 11:4-7

"4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
"
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Here, humans decided to build a tower whose top reaches heaven; my questions are:
-could that building have reached at least 100km height?
-we know that after 100km breathing becomes difficult, could those men have reached their goal of reaching heaven?
-we also know about the universe and others planets made by God, this make us believe that heaven is far above 100km as must planets are separated by thousands or millions km....how could have these men reached heaven with brick building? can brick walls stand above 100km?
-why did the Lord react that way? He who knows everything?

They were building a tower whose top reached the heaven where Eden is, which is where Adam was placed in the Garden/Paradise, of, after his creation.
That "heaven" is stretched out from the earth on day 2 of creation week, between the divided waters of the creation.
They were building it for forty years , and it took a whole year for what began to be taken up to the top for building with, reached the top, by the time of the fall of it.

That realm is still there, but since Bab-El [Gate of God] the Mountain of Eden where Paradise is, and the Tree of Life in its midst is not seen by our veiled eyes, unless God opens them for a vision -but its there.
PAul went up there, and he called it the "third heaven/Paradise". Jesus said he that overcomes He will give to eat of the Tree of Life which is in the midst of the Paradise/Garden of God.

Jesus warned about trying to climb up another way, for He alone is the Way -but Nimrod & Co tried to get up there by another way, and so, to live forever.

Read the Book of Jasher for the rest of the story, chapter 9: Book of Jasher Bible - SpeedBible by johnhurt.com

freezerman2000 · Apr 16, 2013

purity2holiness said:
the atmospheric layer is hight up to about 100km and it is known that breathing is impossible out of that layer;

Now, the Bible tells us in Genesis 11:4-7

"4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
"
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Here, humans decided to build a tower whose top reaches heaven; my questions are:
-could that building have reached at least 100km height?
-we know that after 100km breathing becomes difficult, could those men have reached their goal of reaching heaven?
-we also know about the universe and others planets made by God, this make us believe that heaven is far above 100km as must planets are separated by thousands or millions km....how could have these men reached heaven with brick building? can brick walls stand above 100km?
-why did the Lord react that way? He who knows everything?

You're talking about a building over 60 miles tall...I don't think so..
How Tall Can Skyscrapers Be? (with picture)

ChetSinger · Apr 16, 2013

purity2holiness said:
the atmospheric layer is hight up to about 100km and it is known that breathing is impossible out of that layer;

Now, the Bible tells us in Genesis 11:4-7

"4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
"
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Here, humans decided to build a tower whose top reaches heaven; my questions are:
-could that building have reached at least 100km height?
-we know that after 100km breathing becomes difficult, could those men have reached their goal of reaching heaven?
-we also know about the universe and others planets made by God, this make us believe that heaven is far above 100km as must planets are separated by thousands or millions km....how could have these men reached heaven with brick building? can brick walls stand above 100km?
-why did the Lord react that way? He who knows everything?

Hello.

100km is too high for breathing. Even the empire state building is only about 1/2 km high.

As literal as I am, I think their desire may have been expressed poetically. Or maybe they didn't know how atmospheric pressure decreases with altitude. At any rate, God confounded them before they finished it.

Josephus wrote about the tower. If you google "Josephus tower babel" I'm sure you'll be able to read what he wrote.

Another candidate for the tower of is the Etemenanki, a tower of unknown origin which fell into disrepair, was rebuilt by Nebuchadnezzar, fell into disrepair again, and was eventually leveled by Alexander the Great. Here's what Nebuchadnezzar wrote about it:

A former king built the Temple of the Seven Lights of the Earth, but he did not complete its head. Since a remote time, people had abandoned it, without order expressing their words. Since that time earthquakes and lightning had dispersed its sun-dried clay; the bricks of the casing had split, and the earth of the interior had been scattered in heaps. Marduk, the great lord, excited my mind to repair this building. I did not change the site, nor did I take away the foundation stone ? as it had been in former times. So I founded it, I made it; as it had been in ancient days, I so exalted the summit.

It's been noticed that it has some parallels to the tower of Babel: it's origin was from a remote time, the people who built were unknown, and the top was unfinished.

Fireinfolding · Apr 16, 2013

Sorta reminds you of this

Gen 11:3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.

Luke 20:17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

Luke 20:19 And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.

Given it was a parable

Psalm 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

And also a parable pertaining to that which was written of old

What would brick signify in contrast to stone?

Brick is manmade, unless speaking od manmade dcotrines, or that by which they go about to make a name for themselves.

pshun2404 · Apr 16, 2013

All great comments but I think the real question here was...

"why did the Lord react that way? He who knows everything?"

The reason why has a few reasons to it...number one is the Lord commanded man to spread out and populate the earth...along comes Nimrod and gathers everyone together...and next, why do they build this tower (speculation aside) to "make a name for ourselves".

Then in response God says (paraphrasing) if we let them get away with this what next? What will be the limit if any of what they will do (rebelliously)...

He intervenes I think to quell the insolent rebellion and attempt at self glorification (the ol' I wanna be a god unto myself fruit of the Tree in Genesis 3:5)...

Any thoughts?

Paul

Fireinfolding · Apr 16, 2013

pshun2404 said:
All great comments but I think the real question here was...

"why did the Lord react that way? He who knows everything?"

The reason why has a few reasons to it...number one is the Lord commanded man to spread out and populate the earth...along comes Nimrod and gathers everyone together...and next, why do they build this tower (speculation aside) to "make a name for ourselves".

Then in response God says (paraphrasing) if we let them get away with this what next? What will be the limit if any of what they will do (rebelliously)...

He intervenes I think to quell the insolent rebellion and attempt at self glorification (the ol' I wanna be a god unto myself fruit of the Tree in Genesis 3:5)...

Any thoughts?

Paul

What if it followed along these lines, this needs further attention but theres a patern between the two.

Considering how the Lord Hosea says how the LORD has spoken

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Whereas the apostles say they spake

1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Sorta like bring out of your treasure old things (hidden sayings) and expounding new things through them.

I gotta work on this more but you can sorta catch the patern in this

Click to expand...

Gen 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

Gen 11:3 And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.

Mark 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Mark 12:12 And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.

Psalm 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old

1Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

Romans 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders,

1Peter 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

1Peter 4:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Gen 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Mat 26:31 I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Gen 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

Acts 8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

Acts 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

Gen 11:3 And they had brick for stone

Mark 7:7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Gen 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

So there they were of one speech, but he says how is it ye understand MY speech because they could not hear HIS word. Would seem even spiritually speaking a decent reason to scatter them to leave off of that given its His purposes over mens would prevail. Theres a scattering point there and the disciples being scattered (then) a preaching of the word (identifying them as the stone the builders rejected).

yeshuasavedme · Apr 16, 2013

Genesis 11:8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city. 9 Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.

Jasher chapter 9: the history of the Tower shows it was not rebuilt, and the city was never finished. Nimrod built four cities and named them after the happenings at the tower, but Babylon was not the city of the tower, and that city is probably that closed area on the Arabian Peninsula called "The Empty Quarter", and "ruins",The Arabian Peninsula area near Iraq would also have been included as "Shinar" before the tower event....Nimrod ruled it all.

...Jasher 9:

And the building of the tower was unto them a transgression and a sin, and they began to build it, and whilst they were building against the Lord God of heaven, they imagined in their hearts to war against him and to ascend into heaven.

And all these people and all the families divided themselves in three parts; the first said We will ascend into heaven and fight against him; the second said, We will ascend to heaven and place our own gods there and serve them; and the third part said, We will ascend to heaven and smite him with bows and spears; and God knew all their works and all their evil thoughts, and he saw the city and the tower which they were building.

And when they were building they built themselves a great city and a very high and strong tower; and on account of its height the mortar and bricks did not reach the builders in their ascent to it, until those who went up had completed a full year, and after that, they reached to the builders and gave them the mortar and the bricks; thus was it done daily.

And behold these ascended and others descended the whole day; and if a brick should fall from their hands and get broken, they would all weep over it, and if a man fell and died, none of them would look at him.

And the Lord knew their thoughts, and it came to pass when they were building they cast the arrows toward the heavens, and all the arrows fell upon them filled with blood, and when they saw them they said to each other, Surely we have slain all those that are in heaven.

For this was from the Lord in order to cause them to err, and in order; to destroy them from off the face of the ground.

And they built the tower and the city, and they did this thing daily until many days and years were elapsed.

And God said to the seventy angels who stood foremost before him, to those who were near to him, saying, Come let us descend and confuse their tongues, that one man shall not understand the language of his neighbor, and they did so unto them.

And from that day following, they forgot each man his neighbor's tongue, and they could not understand to speak in one tongue, and when the builder took from the hands of his neighbor lime or stone which he did not order, the builder would cast it away and throw it upon his neighbor, that he would die.

And they did so many days, and they killed many of them in this manner.

And the Lord smote the three divisions that were there, and he punished them according to their works and designs; those who said, We will ascend to heaven and serve our gods, became like apes and elephants; and those who said, We will smite the heaven with arrows, the Lord killed them, one man through the hand of his neighbor; and the third division of those who said, We will ascend to heaven and fight against him, the Lord scattered them throughout the earth.

And those who were left amongst them, when they knew and understood the evil which was coming upon them, they forsook the building, and they also became scattered upon the face of the whole earth.

And they ceased building the city and the tower; therefore he called that place Babel, for there the Lord confounded the Language of the whole earth; behold it was at the east of the land of Shinar.

And as to the tower which the sons of men built, the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up one third part thereof, and a fire also descended from heaven and burned another third, and the other third is left to this day, and it is of that part which was aloft, and its circumference is three days' walk. [It was there in ruins, still, at the time of the writing of the Upright Record/Jasher; which was during the time Israel was in Egypt, and after they came out, and it is closed with their going into the promised land, after which the histories continue to be written by Joshua, Samuel -and so on and so forth]

And many of the sons of men died in that tower, a people without number.

Fireinfolding · Apr 16, 2013

Seems towers were always coming down on folks even then. Well even Siloam but Jesus said they werent any worse sinners then those in Jerusalem, and when the disciples behold the temple then he spake of every stone being thrown down (even there)

Psalm 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower

BluhdoftheLamb · Apr 16, 2013

Fireinfolding said:
Seems towers were always coming down on folks even then.

Yeah, thank God for modern building codes?

Fireinfolding · Apr 16, 2013

BluhdoftheLamb said:
Yeah, thank God for modern building codes?

Heres his building code

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me?

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

We also as lively stones are built up a spiritual house

Ephes 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

1Peter 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

Ephes 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Ephes 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Acts 12:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Thank God for His building code is right huh? lol

(Would love to say the same of my roofers) if you know what I mean?

pshun2404 · Apr 17, 2013

Fireinfolding said:
What if it followed along these lines, this needs further attention but theres a patern between the two.

Considering how the Lord Hosea says how the LORD has spoken

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Whereas the apostles say they spake

1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Sorta like bring out of your treasure old things (hidden sayings) and expounding new things through them.

So there they were of one speech, but he says how is it ye understand MY speech because they could not hear HIS word. Would seem even spiritually speaking a decent reason to scatter them to leave off of that given its His purposes over mens would prevail. Theres a scattering point there and the disciples being scattered (then) a preaching of the word (identifying them as the stone the builders rejected).

The scriptures bear witness it was Christ who they preached which was rejected. He is the chief cornerstone. He has become "the head of the corner" a term used as the place to set the plumline by which we balance all other things.

Paul

pshun2404 · Apr 17, 2013

that city is probably that closed area on the Arabian Peninsula called "The Empty Quarter", and "ruins",The Arabian Peninsula area near Iraq would also have been included as "Shinar" before the tower event....

No, this is definitely incorrect. The people after Ararat moved eastward into Shinar...check a map...the Arabian Peninsula is south and west

Paul

purity2holiness · Apr 17, 2013

yeshuasavedme said:
They were building a tower whose top reached the heaven where Eden is, which is where Adam was placed in the Garden/Paradise, of, after his creation.
That "heaven" is stretched out from the earth on day 2 of creation week, between the divided waters of the creation.
They were building it for forty years , and it took a whole year for what began to be taken up to the top for building with, reached the top, by the time of the fall of it.

That realm is still there, but since Bab-El [Gate of God] the Mountain of Eden where Paradise is, and the Tree of Life in its midst is not seen by our veiled eyes, unless God opens them for a vision -but its there.
PAul went up there, and he called it the "third heaven/Paradise". Jesus said he that overcomes He will give to eat of the Tree of Life which is in the midst of the Paradise/Garden of God.

Jesus warned about trying to climb up another way, for He alone is the Way -but Nimrod & Co tried to get up there by another way, and so, to live forever.

Read the Book of Jasher for the rest of the story, chapter 9:

Thank you for your reply;
I thought that God created the heavens and the earth and these 2 are quite separated; and if we refer to the garden of eden, it is just a portion of the earth that was made "invisible" to man and that is kept by 2 angels; yes, it is a spiritual place below 100km, but it is not heaven; also, these men wanted to build a tower whose top will touch heaven ...and according to christian teachings and believes, heaven is a spiritual place far above the sky, it is not a physical nor material place; now I wonder how the tower of bricks could have reached or touched the "spiritual" heaven to the point that the Lord saw it as threat for the Lord is "admitting" that because these men were united they could have achieved what ever they wanted to do:
Genesis 11:6" And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."

Now, my point is still that, if heaven is far above in the sky, it must be far above 100km and these men would have never reached their goal if we refer to science and God must have known that because he knows everything, so why did he react as if these men could have reached heaven?

purity2holiness · Apr 17, 2013

Fireinfolding said:
Sorta reminds you of this

Gen 11:3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.

Luke 20:17 And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

Luke 20:19 And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.

Given it was a parable

Psalm 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

And also a parable pertaining to that which was written of old

What would brick signify in contrast to stone?

Brick is manmade, unless speaking od manmade dcotrines, or that by which they go about to make a name for themselves.

Thank you for this reply but here I will not focus on "spiritual" meaning of the words stone and brick ....and to be honest, I even believe that this passage of Genesis give the answer to archeologists who ask themselves who build those piramids in stone; instead of them thinking that aliens did those buildings, these men are showing that they chose to do something new:
instead of the usual stones that were used to build those pyramid, they wanted to use bricks, I believe that the Bible is showing us how the use of bricks was introduced in construction;

My questions are still unanswered: why did the Lord see it as a threat the fact that these men wanted to build that tower? could they have reached their goal if we refer to what science reveals concerning the atmospheric layers? why did the Lord react that way? didn't he know about that scientific fact? also, heaven is a "spiritual" place, could have the material tower reached or touched heaven?

yeshuasavedme · Apr 17, 2013

purity2holiness said:
Thank you for your reply;
I thought that God created the heavens and the earth and these 2 are quite separated; and if we refer to the garden of eden, it is just a portion of the earth that was made "invisible" to man and that is kept by 2 angels; yes, it is a spiritual place below 100km, but it is not heaven; also, these men wanted to build a tower whose top will touch heaven ...and according to christian teachings and believes, heaven is a spiritual place far above the sky, it is not a physical nor material place; now I wonder how the tower of bricks could have reached or touched the "spiritual" heaven to the point that the Lord saw it as threat for the Lord is "admitting" that because these men were united they could have achieved what ever they wanted to do:
Genesis 11:6" And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."

Now, my point is still that, if heaven is far above in the sky, it must be far above 100km and these men would have never reached their goal if we refer to science and God must have known that because he knows everything, so why did he react as if these men could have reached heaven?

No, heaven and earth are not separated in creation. They are all of a piece: and the heavens are not stretched out from the earth between the divided in two waters of creation until day 2 of creation week. Check it out in Genesis.

Mount Eden is in the heavenly realm which is now veiled to us earthlings, unless God opens the heavens to our sight for a purpose.

The Garden of Eden is Paradise, and that Paradise is in the third heaven, and that means that Eden is in the third heaven, in which the Garden is planted.
That is where Adam was taken to, and set in, which is "God's rest", according to the original language of Genesis.

That is where Adam was cast down from, driven away/divorced from, and cast down to earth as a fallen, dead in spirit, former son of God. Check out the Hebrew language of those words related to Adam's driving away/casting down/ falling/death.

The restoration of all things will be when Jesus unites Paradise with earth, again, as the Firstborn of the New Man creation human being flesh; and sits there, on the throne of Eden's mount, ruling over the Dominion Adam lost when he died as a son of God, as the "Ish" who is the "Bridegroom" in the spiritual sense, of the Ishyah/Wife; which "Wife" is the Ransomed adopted sons of God adopted into His One Living Spirit and New Man Name, and therefore His "Temple" made with Living Stones for the Glory to indwell -and the Name of the New Man is "Israel", as Isaiah 49 states.

2 Corinthians 12:
... 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years agowhether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knowssuch a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a manwhether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows 4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. 6 For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool; for I will speak the truth. But I refrain, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me.

Rev 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.

The Tree of Life is in the midst of the Garden/Paradise of God, which is planted "in Eden".
Eden is one of the seven mountains of earth's stretched out realm/in heaven, which were seen by Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam.

That realm is also called "the breadth of earth" in Job and in Revelation. It is the stretched out realm, from earth, in which the sun, moon, and stars are set, and in which exists the City of God in Mount Eden, which Mount is also Mount Zion of the heavenly realm.
It is where Adam was set before the fall, and got driven out of, which is the same as "divorced" from.

Redemption is about being redeemed from our vain state of existence since the fall, to restoration in regeneration of our being, back to that which we were created to be, as building stones of the Temple not made with hands for the Glory of God to indwell.

Fireinfolding · Apr 17, 2013

purity2holiness said:
Thank you for this reply but here I will not focus on "spiritual" meaning of the words stone and brick ....and to be honest, I even believe that this passage of Genesis give the answer to archeologists who ask themselves who build those piramids in stone; instead of them thinking that aliens did those buildings, these men are showing that they chose to do something new:
instead of the usual stones that were used to build those pyramid, they wanted to use bricks, I believe that the Bible is showing us how the use of bricks was introduced in construction;

My questions are still unanswered: why did the Lord see it as a threat the fact that these men wanted to build that tower? could they have reached their goal if we refer to what science reveals concerning the atmospheric layers? why did the Lord react that way? didn't he know about that scientific fact? also, heaven is a "spiritual" place, could have the material tower reached or touched heaven?

Hmmm well could delete that God spake by the ministry of the prophets using similudes (and also delete from them that Jesus would open his mouth in a parable uttering "hidden things" of old (we are so curious about). And delete his mention that he spake (even as they perceived it) this parable against them. And concerning that which was written down formerly and mind it naturally (in and of itself). Then I suppose we could imagine the LORD felt threatened by those (He actually gave breath to) using brick (of the earth he made) for stone and that He way way over reacted. God must have been completely oblivious to the scientific nature of the bricks. Not to mention the atmosphere he created. What could God know (then)? If He hadnt a clue to what our brilliant minds have figured out concerning "these things"

One could imagine that I suppose. They set off to build "a tower" yet left off from building "a city"

They come up with a better idea latter

Isaiah 9:10 The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: lol

Theres tons of buildings whose top reaches the heaven, even brick ones. Heaven in the more literal sense (also) can also just mean the sky, even as it speaks of the birds of heaven (which make their nests on high) too

Top reaching to heaven is here

Gen 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

And here (in a dream) with angels (ascending and descending upon it)

Gen 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Then here speaks to the Stone the builders rejected (and the angels ascending and descending upon him)

John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Naturally speaking, I dont know why brick bugged God

BluhdoftheLamb · Apr 17, 2013

I agree. This is one of those passages that makes no sense until you look at it in the Spiritual realm.

purity2holiness · Apr 19, 2013

yeshuasavedme said:
No, heaven and earth are not separated in creation. They are all of a piece: and the heavens are not stretched out from the earth between the divided in two wa ters of creation until day 2 of creation week. Check it out in Genesis.

do you mean the sky that was created on the 2nd day? is the sky the heavens we are talking about? the dwelling place of God? let me remind you scientifically, the Bible description does not fit for the Bible makes the earth the centre of everything while astronomy shows that the earth is not the centre and there are more elements up there that the Bible does not talk about; so if the sky is the heavens, then God should know that at 100km from the earth, breathing is impossible and those men wouldn't have build that tower and the top of it woudn't have touched heaven unless heaven is below 100km;

Mount Eden is in the heavenly realm which is now veiled to us earthlings, unless God opens the heavens to our sight for a purpose.

The Garden of Eden is Paradise, and that Paradise is in the third heaven, and that means that Eden is in the third heaven, in which the Garden is planted.
That is where Adam was taken to, and set in, which is "God's rest", according to the original language of Genesis.

That is where Adam was cast down from, driven away/divorced from, and cast down to earth as a fallen, dead in spirit, former son of God. Check out the Hebrew language of those words related to Adam's driving away/casting down/ falling/death.

the Bible says that God planted a garden in eden and that is where man was placed, and that is where animals were taken to Adam for him to name them... logically, that garden geographically belong to the earth and it is not "heaven of God" for if Adam did not sin the whole earth would be like the garden of eden that has been kept from degradation; the whole earth would look like paradise and this means that paradise is a state and not a geographical location while the garden of eden is a geographical location that is paradise; so to me, saying that the paradise is in the rd heaven means that the state paradise is in the 3rd heaven and if the garden of eden (which has not changed) is in the 3rd heaven, that means that man who was placed in that garden has fallen from 3rd heaven to where he is....that's a personal opinion;

The restoration of all things will be when Jesus unites Paradise with earth, again, as the Firstborn of the New Man creation human being flesh; and sits there, on the throne of Eden's mount, ruling over the Dominion Adam lost when he died as a son of God, as the "Ish" who is the "Bridegroom" in the spiritual sense, of the Ishyah/Wife; which "Wife" is the Ransomed adopted sons of God adopted into His One Living Spirit and New Man Name, and therefore His "Temple" made with Living Stones for the Glory to indwell -and the Name of the New Man is "Israel", as Isaiah 49 states.

yes it is rigth, everything will be restored when the rest of the earth will be made paradise or restored to the state of the garden of eden; I don't think there is throne in eden but I know that there is the tree of life there from which God stopped Adam from eating; in the last days, when the garden will be opened or revealed the conquerors will be able to eat of its fruits

2 Corinthians 12:
... 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. 6 For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool; for I will speak the truth. But I refrain, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me.

Rev 2:7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’

The Tree of Life is in the midst of the Garden/Paradise of God, which is planted "in Eden".
Eden is one of the seven mountains of earth's stretched out realm/in heaven, which were seen by Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam.

That realm is also called "the breadth of earth" in Job and in Revelation. It is the stretched out realm, from earth, in which the sun, moon, and stars are set, and in which exists the City of God in Mount Eden, which Mount is also Mount Zion of the heavenly realm.
It is where Adam was set before the fall, and got driven out of, which is the same as "divorced" from.

Redemption is about being redeemed from our vain state of existence since the fall, to restoration in regeneration of our being, back to that which we were created to be, as building stones of the Temple not made with hands for the Glory of God to indwell.

still, why did the Lord see these men initiative as a threat?

yeshuasavedme · Apr 19, 2013

purity2holiness said:
still, why did the Lord see these men initiative as a threat?

Because they were trying to get up and in by another way than the Gate of entry. The very name "Bab-El" translates to "Gate God".
The cherubim with flaming swords were put on guard at the gate of entry into the Mount of God which is Eden/Mount Zion when he drove Adam out and cast him down to the earth below, and set the guards so that Adam [we are all Adam as to our name and kind -Genesis 5:2] could not enter in and eat the fruit of the Tree of Life, and so, live forever in defiled bodies that could only be cast into the Lake of Fire and not be able to be regenerated in flesh and glorified as sons of God, as temples made to bear the Glory of the Unseen Creator.

Nimrod & Co wanted to "name themselves" gods and live forever by eating the fruit and taking over Mount Eden, where the throne of God is prepared for the Son of Man who has dominion over the earth.

They wanted to get back to where Adam was cast down from when he died as the "prince" a son of God =an elohym, of the human being kind. Read Psalm 82 using the Hebrew concordance for the words. Notice that in the Hebrew, Adam is the one [echad] prince/elohym/son of God who died and was cast down and the congregation of elohym in Eden are being addressed to rule earth with righteousness [they are the Watchers set over earth] or they will "die like Adam, the one prince/son of God and be cast down".

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