The Azov Battalion

[JimR-OCDS]

OK, I just heard about this group for the first time, and the credibility of the source
is questionable, Clayton Morris of Redacted.

So I did a search and found conflicting information at a variety of sites.

However, Wikipedia has this on the Azov Battalion.

I also know that Wikipedia, anyone can add things so, I'm still skeptical.

However, I'm more skeptical about Biden saying he's going to send $800 billion
in military aid to the Ukraine, and Nancy Pelosi telling President Zelensky that
the US will support Ukraine against the Russians. This is very concerning

Anyway, here is the Wikipedia info on the Azov Battalion. Note their neo-Nazi
definition in the first paragraph.

Azov Battalion - Wikipedia

 

[JimR-OCDS]

FYI, here's another article which is concerning about the US funding
for such a group.

The Azov Battalion - Truth in Putin's Rants? | The Dock on the Bay (medium.com)

 

[High Fidelity]

There is no real doubt that there is a far-right element to them.

That said, they're a small number in the grand scheme of things. It'd be like the Proud Boys (Also far-right, but not necessarily neo-Nazi) formalising things and taking up arms against a neighbouring military power invading the U.S.

Big picture... they've dug in against an invading force in one of the most devastated areas and put a mighty dent in the Russian war machine. Do I agree with their ideology? No. Do I support sending them bullets and bombs to continue killing a tyrant's complicit soldiers? Absolutely.

 

[JosephZ]

However, I'm more skeptical about Biden saying he's going to send $800 billion in military aid to the Ukraine, and Nancy Pelosi telling President Zelensky that the US will support Ukraine against the Russians. This is very concerning

Members of the Azov Battalion make up just 0.5% of the Ukraine military forces and only a small percentage of those are known to be Neo-Nazis (10-20%?). There would probably be similar percentages of Neo-Nazis found in many western militaries.

 

[SkyWriting]

However, I'm more skeptical about Biden saying he's going to send $800 billion in military aid to the Ukraine, and Nancy Pelosi telling President Zelensky that the US will support Ukraine against the Russians. This is very concerning.

Because you approve of the Russian aggression?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

In 2019, there was an attempt by US Congress to designate the regiment as a "terrorist organization" but this did not happen. Nevertheless, for years, Azov has maintained contacts with far-right movements abroad, including in Germany according to the German government's answer to a question related to this issue by the Left Party parliamentary group.

Azov Regiment (globalsecurity.org)

Although their number is estimated at just 900, they seem to be a special
operations group for the Ukrainians right now, in their fight against the Russians.

I don't trust the Russians, nor the Ukraine government and I'm losing
faith in our own government, as they cheer on the Ukrainians whom Nancy
Pelosi told Zelensky that we'll be supporting them until the war ends.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

BTW, this is from 2017

The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda | The Hill

 

[High Fidelity]

In 2019, there was an attempt by US Congress to designate the regiment as a "terrorist organization" but this did not happen. Nevertheless, for years, Azov has maintained contacts with far-right movements abroad, including in Germany according to the German government's answer to a question related to this issue by the Left Party parliamentary group.

Azov Regiment (globalsecurity.org)

Although their number is estimated at just 900, they seem to be a special
operations group for the Ukrainians right now, in their fight against the Russians.

I don't trust the Russians, nor the Ukraine government and I'm losing
faith in our own government, as they cheer on the Ukrainians whom Nancy
Pelosi told Zelensky that we'll be supporting them until the war ends.

So a question to someone that's Catholic and American... do you also then disagree with those that donated when the buckets went around in the Irish bars back in the 70s, 80s and 90s to support 'the cause'?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

So a question to someone that's Catholic and American... do you also then disagree with those that donated when the buckets went around in the Irish bars back in the 70s, 80s and 90s to support 'the cause'?

Not sure I understand you

 

[High Fidelity]

Not sure I understand you

A lot of Catholics were supporting the IRA, a Catholic terrorist organisation.

 

[JSRG]

A lot of Catholics were supporting the IRA, a Catholic terrorist organisation.

Exactly which "IRA" are you referring to? The original IRA (Irish Republican Army) from the War of Independence wasn't a "Catholic terrorist organisation." The majority of members were Catholic (which would make sense, as it was an Irish organization and the majority of the Irish were Catholic) but it would not be correct to call it a Catholic organization.

That said, the IRA's gone through a bunch of splits starting in 1969 so there's multiple organizations bearing the name. So maybe one of its later iterations was more explicitly Catholic. Can you clarify exactly which IRA you are referring to?

 

[SkyWriting]

In 2019, there was an attempt by US Congress to designate the regiment as a "terrorist organization" but this did not happen. Nevertheless, for years, Azov has maintained contacts with far-right movements abroad, including in Germany according to the German government's answer to a question related to this issue by the Left Party parliamentary group.

Azov Regiment (globalsecurity.org)

Although their number is estimated at just 900, they seem to be a special
operations group for the Ukrainians right now, in their fight against the Russians.

I don't trust the Russians, nor the Ukraine government and I'm losing
faith in our own government, as they cheer on the Ukrainians whom Nancy
Pelosi told Zelensky that we'll be supporting them until the war ends.

There could be 500,000 Ukrainian goose-stepping Nazis flying swastika flags. That still wouldn't warrant the attack on the nation of Ukraine by Russia. Unless they've been eating Russian babies. Then I'd listen to their complaint. But so far, there has been no such excuses offered. Have the Ukrainians been eating Russian babies?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

A lot of Catholics were supporting the IRA, a Catholic terrorist organisation.

But the Church didn't and in fact, condemned the organization.

 

[Bob Crowley]

What people do privately and what governments do are two different things.

The support the IRA received was from individuals, not governments.

Although I remember an Irish postman I worked with long ago (and who years later surprisingly ended up with an obituary in our local Catholic newspaper "The Catholic Leader") saying "Ireland was the first outpost of the British Empire and it will be the last".

One thing that is being overlooked is the opinions of the people in the Crimea and Donbass regions themselves as to which nation they would prefer to belong. It appeas to be about fifty-fifty, so no matter what the outcome is in the war, unless some realistic solution is found, the tensions in these areas will remain.

 

[cow451]

If the US were invaded by Canada, let's say, there would be many groups that would have a common enemy. These groups might normally despise one another, but would unite against a common aggressor.

A real world example: Afghanistan defeated the Russians, then the NATO/ISAF because local warlords banded together enough to keep the invaders from being successful. Now, they are back to fighting one another.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

If the US were invaded by Canada, let's say, there would be many groups that would have a common enemy. These groups might normally despise one another, but would unite against a common aggressor.

A real world example: Afghanistan defeated the Russians, then the NATO/ISAF because local warlords banded together enough to keep the invaders from being successful. Now, they are back to fighting one another.

Which shows why it's bad policy for Joe Biden to move us toward WWIII for the Ukrainians.

Putin will not be humiliated by defeat, he'll use tactical nuclear weapons and then strategic nuclear weapons before he's humiliated.

 

[cow451]

Which shows why it's bad policy for Joe Biden to move us toward WWIII for the Ukrainians.

Putin will not be humiliated by defeat, he'll use tactical nuclear weapons and then strategic nuclear weapons before he's humiliated.

Putin will be defeated regardless of the small number of AZOV fighters. The risk of nuclear use is not changed by the AZOV fighters. At worst their presence is propaganda for the Russians.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Putin will be defeated regardless of the small number of AZOV fighters. The risk of nuclear use is not changed by the AZOV fighters. At worst their presence is propaganda for the Russians.

Putin will not be humiliated. Yeah, he'll lose the battles in the Ukraine, but that
will only make him more desperate to show the Russians how strong he is and that the United States needs to be defeated.

Not the Azov fighters, but their moral ideology has been warped going back to 2014. As you stated previously, the only alignment with the Ukraine government is their opposition to the Russians.

 

[cow451]

Putin will not be humiliated. Yeah, he'll lose the battles in the Ukraine, but that
will only make him more desperate to show the Russians how strong he is and that the United States needs to be defeated.

Not the Azov fighters, but their moral ideology has been warped going back to 2014. As you stated previously, the only alignment with the Ukraine government is their opposition to the Russians.

The presence of the AZOV fighters will make no difference in the bigger scheme of things.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The presence of the AZOV fighters will make no difference in the bigger scheme of things.

Not unless Putin is somehow removed and the war in the Ukraine ends.

Then the Azov fighters will return to their previous state in fighting against the Government of the Ukraine