The ATOM

[mzungu]

I didn't say that.

Uncut has a different meaning than uncutable. Atom means not cut.

ATOM means uncuttable, however since the Word ATOM came from ATMITO which means one of two things: Uncut or uncuttable. ATOM does not mean "not cut" it means Uncuttable or indivisible.

 

[AV1611VET]

ATOM means uncuttable, however since the Word ATOM came from ATMITO which means one of two things: Uncut or uncuttable. ATOM does not mean "not cut" it means Uncuttable or indivisible.

Yet another testament to scientific mislabeling, eh?

 

[Freodin]

Yet another testament to scientific mislabeling, eh?

No, a testament to the malleability of language. (Or, one could say, the ambiguity.)

Democrit's "atoms" were a theoretical concept. A conclusion, solely based on thoughts: can you divide matter infinitly or not? If not, you would have to reach a stage where it is no longer divisible, hence "uncuttable".... the atom.

What an atom was, what it represented or what real physical conclusions could be drawn... all that were not questions that Demokrit dealt with.

But when - thousand and more years later - people found out that matter was indeed made up of distinct particles, they called them "atoms", based on that principle.

And as nowadays not even scientists use ancient greek on a daily basis... "Atom" is still a nice name for these particles... even if they proved to be divisible.

 

[Delphiki]

What proof are you referring to?

Gee, I dunno... Their predictability in chemistry, viewing them through electron microscopes, how we can actually fling the bits that make them at each other in supercolliders.... take your pick.

Of course, if you treat particle physics anything like you do biological evolution, you won't consider any of that evidence anyway.. or just pretend none of it exists.

 

[mzungu]

No, a testament to the malleability of language. (Or, one could say, the ambiguity.)

Heraclit's "atoms" were a theoretical concept. A conclusion, solely based on thoughts: can you divide matter infinitly or not? If not, you would have to reach a stage where it is no longer divisible, hence "uncuttable".... the atom.

What an atom was, what it represented or what real physical conclusions could be drawn... all that were not questions that Demokrit dealt with.

But when - thousand and more years later - people found out that matter was indeed made up of distinct particles, they called them "atoms", based on that principle.

And as nowadays not even scientists use ancient greek on a daily basis... "Atom" is still a nice name for these particles... even if they proved to be divisible.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Yet another testament to scientific mislabeling, eh?

Seems that way.

Atom means "not cut" or "uncut" so scientists conclude that atoms are uncuttable and nuclear fission is impossible.

However, the ancient Greeks believed that atoms could be cut -- geometrically and physically.

What they believed is that chemical elements could not be cut any further than atoms.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Heraclit's "atoms" were a theoretical concept.

Were Heraclitus's electrons theoretical concepts as well?

"The thunderbolt steers the course of all things." -- Heraclitus, philosopher, 5th century B.C.

A conclusion, solely based on thoughts: can you divide matter infinitly or not? If not, you would have to reach a stage where it is no longer divisible, hence "uncuttable".... the atom.

No.

Even the atomists believed atoms could be cut ad infinitum at least geometrically.

What they actually thought is that chemical elements cannot be cut any further than the atom.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Their predictability in chemistry

You mean the atomic chemistry called alchemy that Democritus rediscovered?

viewing them through electron microscopes

Old news.

Of course, if you treat particle physics anything like you do biological evolution, you won't consider any of that evidence anyway.. or just pretend none of it exists.

FYI: Democritus treated particle physics in the 5th century B.C.

"[Democritus was] the first particle physicist." -- Leon M. Lederman, physicist, The God Particle, 2006

 

[eugler]

No, a testament to the malleability of language. (Or, one could say, the ambiguity.)

Heraclit's "atoms" were a theoretical concept. A conclusion, solely based on thoughts: can you divide matter infinitly or not? If not, you would have to reach a stage where it is no longer divisible, hence "uncuttable".... the atom.

What an atom was, what it represented or what real physical conclusions could be drawn... all that were not questions that Demokrit dealt with.

But when - thousand and more years later - people found out that matter was indeed made up of distinct particles, they called them "atoms", based on that principle.

And as nowadays not even scientists use ancient greek on a daily basis... "Atom" is still a nice name for these particles... even if they proved to be divisible.

This sums it up nicely no matter how much effort any Creationist puts into deliberately misunderstanding it.

I really like the Atom series, it's a very accesible and well made way of getting interessted in Particle Physics. Is anyone interessted in discussing the fascinating philosphical implications of these discoveries or do we have to go on with the current childish debate?

 

[mzungu]

AoS is just disrupting this thread! I shall just ignore him and hope he has the decency to leave us alone to discuss about the Atom without involving religion and make believe myths about my ancient Greek ancestors.

Here is a video that some of you may find interesting:

YouTube - Dr. Quantum Explains Double Slit Experiment

 

[Delphiki]

However, the ancient Greeks believed that atoms could be cut -- geometrically and physically.

Even though they came up with the word "atom" and when you consider it's meaning? Are you always this contradictory?

You mean the atomic chemistry called alchemy that Democritus rediscovered?

No, I don't mean magically turning elements into other elements.

I mean the understanding of particle exchange and predictably forming particular compounds as a result of understanding the math behind chemistry.

Alchemy != Chemistry

Old news.

Oh really? They had electron microscopes in ancient Greece?

FYI: Democritus treated particle physics in the 5th century B.C.
"[Democritus was] the first particle physicist." -- Leon M. Lederman, physicist, The God Particle, 2006

You know he was speaking figuratively, right? He couldn't have studied subatomic particles in a time when nobody (not even Democritus) believed there was a such thing.

You're running out of quotes, I see, since you keep repeating the same ones. If I might make a suggestion -- That is, to get an education. Copying and pasting historic quotes from the internet and mangling their context doesn't count.

 

[AV1611VET]

Where's Ray Palmer when you need him?

 

[mzungu]

Where's Ray Palmer when you need him?

YouTube - Applause

 

[mzungu]

Were Heraclitus's electrons theoretical concepts as well?

Your knowledge of my ancestors is noticeably lacking!

Gray hair is a sign of age, not of wisdom. - Greek proverb

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. - Socrates

 

[Supreme]

When I was in sixth form and studying biology and chemistry concurrently, I would occasionally confuse the atom with the cell. The atom was the smallest thing that made up everything in chemistry, and the cell was the smallest thing that made up everything in biology.

 

[mzungu]

Here is the link to BBC's SPACE RACE! It is worth watching especially for its historical accuracy!

Space Race | Watch Free Documentary Online

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Even though they came up with the word "atom" and when you consider it's meaning? Are you always this contradictory?

Atom means not cut or uncut. It doesn't mean uncuttable.

"... it is highly unscientific to believe that there is an indivisible magnitude. Epicurus would surely never have held that view had he chosen to learn geometry from his friend Polyaenus rather than make Polyaenus himself unlearn it. Democritus thought the sun was of great size, as befits a man of education, well-trained in geometry. Epicurus thought that it was maybe a foot across. He took the view that it was more or less as big as it looked. Thus when he changes Democritus he makes things worse; when he follows Democritus there is nothing original, as is the case with atoms ...." -- Marcus T. Cicero, philosopher, On Moral Ends, Book I, 1st century B.C.

"Democritus was intensely interested in geometry, not as a mere enthusiast like Plato; he was a geometer of distinction." -- Erwin Schrodinger, physicist, Nature and the Greeks, 1954

"[Thomas] Heath esteems him [Democritus] highly as a mathematician." -- Bertrand Russell, philosopher, A History of Western Philosophy, 1972

No, I don't mean magically turning elements into other elements.

Transmutation of chemical elements is called alchemy or physics not magic.

Oh really? They had electron microscopes in ancient Greece?

It seems so.

Electron and microscope are both ancient Greek words.

Pedesis is an ancient Greek word as well.

Furthermore, Lucretius connected electricity and gravity.

"Athwart the rain thou seest the lightning fly;
Now here, now there, bursting from out the clouds,
The fires dash zig-zag- and that flaming power
Falls likewise down to earth.
In these affairs
We wish thee also well aware of this:
The atoms, as their own weight bears them down
Plumb through the void...."
-- T. Lucretius Carus, philosopher poet, On the Nature of Things, Book II, 50 B.C.

 

[mzungu]

Atom means not cut or uncut. It doesn't mean uncuttable.

Are you an authority in the Greek language? Τhe official Greek definition means something uncuttable.

&#940;&#964;&#959;&#956;&#959; < &#945;&#961;&#967;&#945;&#943;&#945; &#949;&#955;&#955;&#951;&#957;&#953;&#954;&#942; &#7940;&#964;&#959;&#956;&#959;&#957;, &#959;&#965;&#948;&#941;&#964;&#949;&#961;&#959; &#964;&#959;&#965; &#949;&#960;&#953;&#952;&#941;&#964;&#959;&#965; &#7940;&#964;&#959;&#956;&#959;&#962; < &#7936;- &#963;&#964;&#949;&#961;&#951;&#964;&#953;&#954;&#972; + &#964;&#941;&#956;&#957;&#969; (&#945;&#965;&#964;&#972;&#962; &#960;&#959;&#965; &#948;&#949;&#957; &#956;&#960;&#959;&#961;&#949;&#943; &#957;&#945; &#948;&#953;&#945;&#953;&#961;&#949;&#952;&#949;&#943

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Are you an authority in the Greek language?

Yes. I know what "a" means and I know what "tom" means.

A as in atheist. Meaning not theist.

Same as atom. Not cut.

&#932;he official Greek definition means something uncuttable.

&#940;&#964;&#959;&#956;&#959; < &#945;&#961;&#967;&#945;&#943;&#945; &#949;&#955;&#955;&#951;&#957;&#953;&#954;&#942; &#7940;&#964;&#959;&#956;&#959;&#957;, &#959;&#965;&#948;&#941;&#964;&#949;&#961;&#959; &#964;&#959;&#965; &#949;&#960;&#953;&#952;&#941;&#964;&#959;&#965; &#7940;&#964;&#959;&#956;&#959;&#962; < &#7936;- &#963;&#964;&#949;&#961;&#951;&#964;&#953;&#954;&#972; + &#964;&#941;&#956;&#957;&#969; (&#945;&#965;&#964;&#972;&#962; &#960;&#959;&#965; &#948;&#949;&#957; &#956;&#960;&#959;&#961;&#949;&#943; &#957;&#945; &#948;&#953;&#945;&#953;&#961;&#949;&#952;&#949;&#943

FYI there is no official Greek definition.

 

[mzungu]

Yes. I know what "a" means and I know what "tom" means.

A as in atheist. Meaning not theist.

Same as atom. Not cut.


FYI there is no official Greek definition.

Is your Greek better than mine or are you just trying to be arrogant? You have so far twisted the history of my ancestors and are now twisting the meaning of Atom.