The Assumption

[narnia59]

The Bible specifically states their unique circumstances.

As for the rest of us...

Hebrews 9:27 says, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

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I'm not sure when folks are going to learn that when the Bible makes these statements it's making general statements about mankind and not speaking about individuals. As has been pointed out, there are at least two people recorded in Scripture who did not die.


And then there are those who have died twice, not once. Like Lazarus.

And these people " 52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people."

There are really only 3 options for these people. Either they die twice (which shows the exception to your Scripture), they are bodily assumed into heaven, or they are still walking among us on earth today.

Of course, Scripture does not record their second death, nor does it record their assumption. So using your logic, they have to still be walking among us today. Right?

 

[Presentist]

I'm not sure when folks are going to learn that when the Bible makes these statements it's making general statements about mankind and not speaking about individuals.

Do you believe that there have been others (that are not specifically mentioned in the Bible and are not Mary) who have had an "immaculate conception," or who have had an "assumption?"

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[narnia59]

Do you believe that there have been others (that are not specifically mentioned in the Bible and are not Mary) who have had an "immaculate conception," or who have had an "assumption?"

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The church does not teach such so I do not believe such.

Do you believe Lazarus and those who were risen at the death of Christ are still walking among us today? If not, what do you believe happened to them?

 

[Standing Up]

The church does not teach such so I do not believe such.

Do you believe Lazarus and those who were risen at the death of Christ are still walking among us today? If not, what do you believe happened to them?

The ones mentioned in Mt. actually rose right after His resurrection, not before. Lazarus for his part would have died again (IOW, when Christ called him out from the tomb, it wasn't in a glorified body).

 

[Presentist]

The church does not teach such so I do not believe such.

You have identified the primary difference between you and I...

I am Sola-Scripture, whereas you are Sola-Magisterium.

If we were both asked, "Can someone be taken up to Heaven without dying?"

I would answer "Only those who the Bible says have/will experience it."

You would answer "Only those who the Roman Church says have/will experience it."

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[narnia59]

The ones mentioned in Mt. actually rose right after His resurrection, not before. Lazarus for his part would have died again (IOW, when Christ called him out from the tomb, it wasn't in a glorified body).

I would suggest reading Matthew again. It happens when he dies and the curtain is torn.

 

[narnia59]

You have identified the primary difference between you and I...

I am Sola-Scripture, whereas you are Sola-Magisterium.

If we were both asked, "Can someone be taken up to Heaven without dying?"

I would answer "Only those who the Bible says have/will experience it."

You would answer "Only those who the Roman Church says have/will experience it."

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Your comment about sola-magisterium displays your ignorance about the Catholic church and what it teaches about the role of the magisterium.

The teaching authority of the church and its successive nature is well established in Scripture. Sola-scriptura is not. Your acceptance of that un-biblical doctrine is indeed a primary difference in our views.

 

[narnia59]

If we were both asked, "Can someone be taken up to Heaven without dying?"

I would answer "Only those who the Bible says have/will experience it."


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What do you claim happened to those who rose when Christ died? Are they still walking among us today, since the Bible does not tell us they were assumed into heaven?

The Bible doesn't tell us they died twice, and you've said the only exceptions to the "every man must die once" rule must be recorded in Scripture.

The Bible doesn't tell us they were assumed bodily into heaven, and you've said any assumptions must be recorded in Scripture.

By the rules you've established, that only leaves you with the option that they are still walking among us today. Is that what you are claiming?

 

[Standing Up]

I would suggest reading Matthew again. It happens when he dies and the curtain is torn.

Mt. 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
v53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

After, not before. Ther verses are acutally part of a Jewish teaching tool, an ????? (sorry, forget the term), but it's a A-B-C C-B-A pattern. Quite beautiful and meaningful actually. I'd have to dig it out of the files to show it.