The Appearing.

[jeffweeder]

Pauls last words

1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:


2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;

8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.


No rapture before the appearing, all prior believers looked to his appearing--which every eye would see. REV 1

Paul teaches that he must appear-, and then the rewards.

He appears,-- we are changed,-- and then rapture to him to recieve the reward--New heaven and new earth.



1 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2 Set[1][Or Be intent on ] your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.



I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate,
14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen



11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,
13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.


1pet 113 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;



13 but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.
but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[jeffweeder]

I just want to establish the point that we will see --with our own eyes if alive his APPEARING.

We are not looking for rapture, we are looking for him to return---and every eye apparantley sees it..when it APPEARS

 

[Stephen1]

The Lord can "appear" to humans anytime He wants .... and more than once will He do this. He has done it in the past (first century), the Church will see Him at His "harpazo" and in heaven during the 70th week, the 144,000 will see Him during the tribulations of the 70th week on the earth, His two prophets will see Him when they are taken to heaven after the second 1,260 days of the 70th week, the martyrs will see Him when they are resurrected after the battle of Armageddon, and the world (those mortals who survive the tribulations) will see Him at the end of the 1,290 days from the mid-point of the 70th week.

 

[jeffweeder]

The Lord can "appear" to humans anytime He wants .... and more than once will He do this

That is not what these scriptures are saying----
you know what they are saying and that they speak of his promise to come again.
Jesus told me he was coming back, and this is the hope of the church.

Jesus knew more about his coming than anyone, and assured us that he had told us all about it,beforehand.

Yet people twist other scriptures by Paul-Peter-John, to get you to believe Jesus didnt tell us everything..

They say, before the tribulation of those days-he will come for us. and then he will come again.

Jesus says -after the tribulation of those days i will come for you...

who do you believe?

Are the words of Jesus enough for you to build a doctrine on his coming again?

Do we need someone elses word /or contribution on the matter?

Paul thought not.

According to the lords own word, that we who remain alive on earth at HIS COMING will NOT precede those who have fallen asleep.

Heaven and earth will pass away but my word to you wont.

 

[Stephen1]

You say this, but I can tell you that the Lord is as close as the nose on your face and He could appear to you in a flash if He chose to do so. He is not in some far distant place in the universe, but He is omnipresent, everywhere all of the time. And the dimension of His level of existance is not up or down, but present.

My point is that He has scheduled his engagements with the earth, His appearances and actions, visible or invisible to some and not others, and in heaven (the higher plain of existance) or on the earth. He can move in and out of the dimension He resides in at will. He will be involved directly for His "harpazo", His hour of trial, His appearance visibly to the world and at the end of His wrath and judgments , and His reign on the earth for 1,000 years.

 

[jeffweeder]

Again, I say these verses point to his promise of coming again, as one majestic event that the world and every eye will see.
God will shorten the days and send Christ to back to get us.

When the aposles spoke of his promised coming, they all knew who laid the SOLID foundation to this truth.

They had nothing to add to the word of the lord.

 

[Stephen1]

He has to come to execute His hour of trial and He is seen with the 144,000 sealed Israelites by John in Revelation 14. These events times are both before the end of His judgments and wrath. He will be the one judging and controlling the events of the 70th week even though the world will not see Him doing it. These judgments do not all occur on one day, but over a period of time.

 

[timlamb]

Again, I say these verses point to his promise of coming again, as one majestic event that the world and every eye will see.
God will shorten the days and send Christ to back to get us.

When the aposles spoke of his promised coming, they all knew who laid the SOLID foundation to this truth.

They had nothing to add to the word of the lord.

When He comes for the Church we will see Him in the air, He will be revieled to us.

I don't have time to examine the context(more than a few surrounding verses you provided), and you fail to make the book and chapter available to us. But from what I read these could quite easily be in reference to the rapture.

I especially like the first one about those who loved His appearing. I know I will love seeing Him appear. Did you think we would not see Him comming in the clouds at the rapture, there will be a blast of the trumpet, I can hardly wait.

Don't be so cocky Jeff, we have a right to our belief and your attitude will not change our minds.

 

[jeffweeder]

I especially like the first one about those who loved His appearing. I know I will love seeing Him appear. Did you think we would not see Him comming in the clouds at the rapture, there will be a blast of the trumpet, I can hardly wait.

Don't be so cocky Jeff, we have a right to our belief and your attitude will not change our minds.

Every eye will see him coming.

I was not being cocky Tim.

Jesus laid the foundation of his promised return and said he had told us all about it. Its adaquete all on its own.

 

[Stephen1]

His discourse describes His return at the end of the 70th week and He has told about this (every eye will see) .... He has not told us about the time (date) of His "harpazo" except that it will be at a time (date) that no one can know and it will happen without warning. His return at the end of the 70th week will be predeced by many very evident signs and earth shaking judgments over a period of time .... a measurable time at that. Will this period be a time that you "think not" ..... no way. Will this be a period of time during which the world will be asleep at the switch ? Hardly. What will the world of unbelief be doing .... hiding and railing at the Lord's judgments as they struggle to survive. Some will turn to Him, but most will not. Read Revelation for the details.

 

[jeffweeder]

Revelation says-and they repented not --
they witness the effects on the earth because of their unrepentance, and they curse.

God will destroy those that are destroying the earth.
We, through the power of GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT that worketh in us, will protect us.

The Holy Spiit has come to

8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.


8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl upon the sun, and it was given to it to scorch men with fire.
9 Men were scorched with fierce[7][Lit great ] heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.
10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues because of pain,
11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.

The gospel is still being preached to them but even with all that caos around they repent not.

During the pouring out of the next bowl, we who have repented are given a familiar encouragement;

12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river, the Euphrates; and its water was dried up, so that the way would be prepared for the kings from the east[8][Lit rising of the sun ].

Armageddon
13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;
14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world[9][Lit inhabited earth ], to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
15 ("Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.")

Sin---rightousness and judgment.