The Anything Goes Chat Thread.

[Bevlina]

We can talk about anything here...ANYTHING! We can even settle our disagreements here, and if we start a little fight, we can forgive one another and shake hands here. Then start all over again.

To start off ... can someone PERLEASE tell me just what post modernism is?

If you give a nice post ... you get repped. OK? Everyone got it?

Now...what IS postmodernism?

 

[Blessed-one]

LOL!! i think what i found on postmodernism is completely different to what the people refer to in the other threads.

http://www.colorado.edu/English/ENGL2012Klages/pomo.html

Postmodernism is a complicated term, or set of ideas, one that has only emerged as an area of academic study since the mid-1980s. Postmodernism is hard to define, because it is a concept that appears in a wide variety of disciplines or areas of study, including art, architecture, music, film, literature, sociology, communications, fashion, and technology. It's hard to locate it temporally or historically, because it's not clear exactly when postmodernism begins.

........

From a literary perspective, the main characteristics of modernism include:


1. an emphasis on impressionism and subjectivity in writing (and in visual arts as well); an emphasis on HOW seeing (or reading or perception itself) takes place, rather than on WHAT is perceived. An example of this would be stream-of-consciousness writing.


2. a movement away from the apparent objectivity provided by omniscient third-person narrators, fixed narrative points of view, and clear-cut moral positions. Faulkner's multiply-narrated stories are an example of this aspect of modernism.


3. a blurring of distinctions between genres, so that poetry seems more documentary (as in T.S. Eliot or ee cummings) and prose seems more poetic (as in Woolf or Joyce).

gee, this is more interesting than that in the other threads. I love writings (writing) in omniscient third-person!
moving on...

The basic ideas of the Enlightenment are roughly the same as the basic ideas of humanism. Jane Flax's article gives a good summary of these ideas or premises (on p. 41). I'll add a few things to her list.


1. There is a stable, coherent, knowable self. This self is conscious, rational, autonomous, and universal--no physical conditions or differences substantially affect how this self operates.


2. This self knows itself and the world through reason, or rationality, posited as the highest form of mental functioning, and the only objective form.


3. The mode of knowing produced by the objective rational self is "science," which can provide universal truths about the world, regardless of the individual status of the knower.


4. The knowledge produced by science is "truth," and is eternal.


5. The knowledge/truth produced by science (by the rational objective knowing self) will always lead toward progress and perfection. All human institutions and practices can be analyzed by science (reason/objectivity) and improved.


6. Reason is the ultimate judge of what is true, and therefore of what is right, and what is good (what is legal and what is ethical). Freedom consists of obedience to the laws that conform to the knowledge discovered by reason.


7. In a world governed by reason, the true will always be the same as the good and the right (and the beautiful); there can be no conflict between what is true and what is right (etc.).


8. Science thus stands as the paradigm for any and all socially useful forms of knowledge. Science is neutral and objective; scientists, those who produce scientific knowledge through their unbiased rational capacities, must be free to follow the laws of reason, and not be motivated by other concerns (such as money or power).


9. Language, or the mode of expression used in producing and disseminating knowledge, must be rational also. To be rational, language must be transparent; it must function only to represent the real/perceivable world which the rational mind observes. There must be a firm and objective connection between the objects of perception and the words used to name them (between signifier and signified).

Modernity is fundamentally about order: about rationality and rationalization, creating order out of chaos. The assumption is that creating more rationality is conducive to creating more order, and that the more ordered a society is, the better it will function (the more rationally it will function). Because modernity is about the pursuit of ever-increasing levels of order, modern societies constantly are on guard against anything and everything labeled as "disorder," which might disrupt order. Thus modern societies rely on continually establishing a binary opposition between "order" and "disorder," so that they can assert the superiority of "order." But to do this, they have to have things that represent "disorder"--modern societies thus continually have to create/construct "disorder." In western culture, this disorder becomes "the other"--defined in relation to other binary oppositions. Thus anything non-white, non-male, non-heterosexual, non-hygienic, non-rational, (etc.) becomes part of "disorder," and has to be eliminated from the ordered, rational modern society.

 

[Bevlina]

Oh struth....That's something I'll have to study hard....I thought it was something else.

Can someone tell me how to do those quotes?

 

[Blessed-one]

that's part of it, it's a big topic.

quotes? i only did the copy and paste way, and tag the followings without spaces:

[ QUOTE ] CONTENT [ / QUOTE ]

 

[padey]

Now...what IS postmodernism?

A fantastic question, I just don’t have the time right now to give my complete view.
I really like what Bishop N.T Wright has written on the topic of postmodernity. With the deconstructed human and lost of meta-narrative.

I found what Blessed-one quoted as a decent exegesis of postmodernity, but I think it goes over most peoples heads.

Words give meaning, and context brings understanding.

So when I have the time I’ll give my answer with a practical and cultural context, with a hope to bring understanding.

padey

 

[Icystwolf]

I think it's quite hard for anyone who believes in postmodernism to actually summarise postmodernism into a sentence, but for critics (mainly Christians) we can.

The main difficulty is that Art students arn't Engineers, and so they don't have a uniform structure nor a standard they have to conform to.

Engineers have safety standards, quality standards, management standards...ie, ISO, and the Internet has heaps of protocols...those are all standards...

Post modernism is an artsy subject, so theres no governing body that regulates what the standard for Post Modernism really is....which is some sense a problem, but in other sense at least we don't have the "thought police" running around....lol

Makes me wonder who hard life would be for the engineers that did arts(excluding language) as their double degree....OUCH!

 

[Bevlina]

Very, very interesting. It's tough for us older ones to keep up with you young ones at times...you see. We know of pre natal, and post natal. That means before and after natal time.

It took me 2 hours of deep thinking to try to work out what post modernism is...and ...that still means alot of thinking!

 

[Blessed-one]

it means lots of things in different areas, Bev.

uh ha, art is more interesting than engineering!

 

[Bevlina]

Art is MUCH more interesting that engineering. Or...I think it is...I haven't done engineering. Don't fancy it much either. Engineering has gotta be boring...Jim...??

 

[Icystwolf]

Nope...

Engineering was boring and hard at first, but it trains yo up to be a conquerer in technology.

Engineering isn't boring, it's just hard and it's for those that want a challenge...

On the contrary Maths is boring and so are arts....esspecially teaching and conceptualising thing and paintings....
teaching...you learn the techniques, which isn't much...for 3yrs, and also the same things they teach in primary school...easy!....lol..kiddin, I don't know what goes into teaching, but lecturers don't need to go through education to teach engineering...

Concept thingys...yuck, they mean nothing at all..ie, post modernism
Paintings...you have four black dots and people say it has emotional meanings or ideas or strength..... I personally think it's a waste of effort and the end of the universe as we know it!

 

[Bevlina]

Modern Art is about as interesting to me was watching the children in Parliament trying to run the nation.

But I reckon little John will get back in....if we want Costello.

Engineering would be too much to conquer today Jim. The minute we walk out of the shop with a new computer today, they've released a new one. The world has got too fast in technology. Which reminds me....I must remember to buy a TV to go with my new VCR.

 

[Blessed-one]

no, that can't be boring coming from the view of a true engineering 'freak'.

i'm terrible at drawing, but writing allows me to relate i suppose. No rigid rules to follow, all goes with imagination, feels and bringing it 'up to the surface of water' as my tutor loves to say. It's not an easy task..

it's about exploring the talent God has given you, i think. i remember how science people tend to joke about business people as money greedy, while business people joke about engineers as formula followers, and art joking about others as lacking imagination. yeah, i'm a faculty drifter. haha.

 

[Icystwolf]

it's about exploring the talent God has given you, i think. i remember how science people tend to joke about business people as money greedy, while business people joke about engineers as formula followers, and art joking about others as lacking imagination. yeah, i'm a faculty drifter. haha.

Well, if you want to take that further, heres the Christian perspective of the whole thing...well not really Christian...but anyways...heres the thing that happened last yr at MYC...

Art Students are thinking, what are engineers doing here...they can't read?
Engineers are thinking, everyone who's not in engineer will end up in the fast food chain, so whats the point...

I'm thinking; Comm, Business students and being Christians...what an oxymoron. Med Students, you ought to go to the Primary Christian Camp this camp is for adults. Law Students, we don't have enough sound absorbers to remove the noise from the lecture hall. And Science students...yeh ya all right, we need you and you need us to make a living....

 

[Bevlina]

So..do you reckon everyone who's not an engineer will end up in the fast food chain Jim?
Seems pretty drastic.

 

[Blessed-one]

we need you and you need us to make a living....

shouldn't they rather say that to business students? (no sponsor...)

 

[Icystwolf]

no...the governments need scientists and engineers to be ahead else we'd be swamped by overseas technology which costs a lot.

Economists...theres an abundant supply of them....and like enron, they're leeches to society..sucking money for moving money around....

 

[Blessed-one]

yeah, that is if the government could stop giving so much to sports and private schools (in terms of recognition as well).

lol!!! seriously, you only need a few good economists around. Not a lot..

 

[KristianJ]

*building engineering sudent laughing in the corner*

 

[Bevlina]

Why is it I bought a KJV Bible and it won't show in the thingy up there?

 

[Blessed-one]

did you equip? if it still doesn't show, then drop a line in the 'bug' forum.