the Antichrist

Douggg · Mar 3, 2024

I'd rather have Jesus than silver or gold
I'd rather be His than have riches untold
I'd rather have Jesus than houses or land
I'd rather be led by His nail-pierced hand

Than to be the king of a vast domain
And be held in sin's dread sway
I'd rather have Jesus than anything
This world affords today

I'd rather have Jesus than worldly applause
I'd rather be faithful to His dear cause
I'd rather have Jesus than worldwide fame
Yes, I'd rather be true to His holy name

Than to be the king of a vast domain
And be held in sin's dread sway
I'd rather have Jesus than anything
This world affords today

Jeffwhosoever · Mar 5, 2024

d taylor said:
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The antichrist or false prophet (his other title) purpose is to bring worship to the beast from the sea who is also known as the man of sin

The Antichrist is one person, the false prophet is another, and the beast is a third, Satan himself, together called the unholy trinity.

d taylor · Mar 5, 2024

Jeffwhosoever said:
The Antichrist is one person, the false prophet is another, and the beast is a third, Satan himself, together called the unholy trinity.

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No the false prophet is the antichrist

d taylor · Mar 5, 2024

Jeffwhosoever said:
The Antichrist is one person, the false prophet is another, and the beast is a third, Satan himself, together called the unholy trinity.

John uses false prophet when he is speaking about antichrist.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

Also Revelation states the false prophet and the beast were cast into the lake of fire, so where is the antichrist.

Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Douggg · Mar 5, 2024

d taylor said:
John uses false prophet when he is speaking about antichrist.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

Also Revelation states the false prophet and the beast were cast into the lake of fire, so where is the antichrist.

Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast (king) is the final stage of [the little horn/the prince that shall come/the Antichrist/the revealed man of sin/the beast (king)].

It is real simple to understand that it is one person who goes through 5 stages on the way to his demise of being cast into the lake of fire.

Here are the three main individuals.

1. [the little horn/the prince that shall come/the Antichrist/the revealed man of sin/the beast (king)].

2. the false prophet

3. Satan (who will be indwelling the statue image of the beast king).

.

Douggg · Mar 5, 2024

Jeffwhosoever said:
The Antichrist is one person, the false prophet is another, and the beast is a third, Satan himself, together called the unholy trinity.

Hi Jeff, I agree that the Antichrist is one person and the false prophet is another person.

But the beast-king is the same person as the Antichrist - but in the final stage of his career path (so-to-speak).

Being the Antichrist is only for the three years, thereabouts, of the person being the King of Israel, thought-to be messiah by the Jews.

Later when he becomes the beast-king for 42 months, he is no longer the King of Israel, i.e no longer should he be referred to as the Antichrist.

the little horn, becomes the prince that shall come, becomes the Antichrist, becomes the revealed man of sin, becomes the beast-king.

In a discussion, I often just refer to that individual as "the person" and then add to it whatever stage he is in. So if we all used this convention, our discussions would be less confusing. Try it.

the person as the little horn
the person as the prince that shall come
the person as the Antichrist
the person as the revealed man of sin
the person as the beast-king

Timtofly · Mar 5, 2024

d taylor said:
John uses false prophet when he is speaking about antichrist.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

Also Revelation states the false prophet and the beast were cast into the lake of fire, so where is the antichrist.

Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast is the closest thing you got to that last AC figure. The beast is not human though. The FP is not the AC. The FP is the spokesperson of humanity. The beast is not a human. The beast is along the lines of an AI. Whose image other than the beast? The beast and the image are the same thing. People were told to worship both Satan and this beast/image.

Douggg · Mar 6, 2024

Timtofly said:
The beast is the closest thing you got to that last AC figure. The beast is not human though. The FP is not the AC. The FP is the spokesperson of humanity. The beast is not a human. The beast is along the lines of an AI. Whose image other than the beast? The beast and the image are the same thing. People were told to worship both Satan and this beast/image.

Tim, the beast king is human.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

d taylor · Mar 6, 2024

Douggg said:
The beast (king) is the final stage of [the little horn/the prince that shall come/the Antichrist/the revealed man of sin/the beast (king)].

It is real simple to understand that it is one person who goes through 5 stages on the way to his demise of being cast into the lake of fire.

Here are the three main individuals.

1. [the little horn/the prince that shall come/the Antichrist/the revealed man of sin/the beast (king)].

2. the false prophet

3. Satan (who will be indwelling the statue image of the beast king).

View attachment 343656
.

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It is not that what you are saying is hard to see. I just simply do not believe your theology is correct on this.

Like i have stated before there are three people in the tribulation, the beast from the sea, the beast from the earth and satan

Now the beast from the sea matches up with other descriptions of people in The Bible. One is Paul's man of sin the other is the king of the north in Daniel

From Daniel
“Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.

Also in Daniel it is seen that the king will come to his end
And he shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him.

Paul also writes about a man of sin here is his description
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Then in Revelation it is seen that the beast from the sea
And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

In Revelation it is seen with new information that this king actually does not come to his end but is brought back to life from his deadly wound.
Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.

Then there is the other beast from the sea who brings worship to the beast of the earth.
Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Then in Revelation 17 it is seen that the beast from the sea, the one who received a deadly wound, but was brought back to life. How, because the beast became possessed by a past Roman king/ruler.
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.

Now in Revelation 19 the beast and false prophet are captured and thrown in the lake of fire
And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The false prophet is the same as the beast from the sea who brings worship to the beast (from the sea) as seen in Revelation 13.

Now John plainly writes in 1st John 4, that false prophets are antichrist, the descriptions are in the same context. So when the title antichrist is not seen used in Revelation but what is seen is the use of false prophet. How not can the false prophet, not be the same as the antichrist.
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

contratodo · Mar 6, 2024

the prince that shall come:
Daniel 9:26
he shall confirm the covenant with many for one captivity [Daniel 9:1-2, 1:21]
and in the middle of the captivity he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation (to himself) to cease
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation,
and that determined (fire) shall be poured upon the desolator.
Daniel 9 :27 [Rev 19:20-21, Rev 20:9]

Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God
or that is worshiped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God,
showing himself that he is God.
....that Lawless one.. whom the Lord shall consume with the breath of His mouth [ Rev 19:20-21 ]
Even him whose coming is after the working of Satan
with all power and signs and lying wonders.
And with all unrighteous deception among them that perish because
they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this reason God shall send them strong delusion
such that they believe THE lie {Genesis 3:4 The lie.}
2 Thessalonians 2:4-11

the people of the prince that shall come:
Whereas Esau says, we are impoverished, but come and let us return and build the desolate places,
thus says the Lord, they may build, but I will throw down
Malachi 1:3-4

I will be swift witness against... false swearers... and them that turn aside the stranger from his right
because they do not fear me says the Lord.
Malachi 3:5

Them that say, stand over there by yourself, come not near me, for I am holier than thou,
these cause my wrath to smoke, a fire that will burn all the day.
Isaiah 65:5

Esau.. you should not have entered into the gates of my people in the day of their calamity.
You should not have stood in the crossroads, to make captive those of his that did remain.
Obadiah 1:6-14

For the day of the Lord is near...
Deliverers shall come up on mount Zion, to judge the mount of Esau and the kingdom will be the Lords.
Obadiah 1:15,21

I will take away out of the midst of thee, them that rejoice in thy pride,
and you shall no more be prideful in my holy mountain.
Zephaniah 3:11

I know the blaspheme of them that say they are Jews and are not, and do lie, and are a synagogue of Satan.
Behold I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews and are not but do lie,
behold I will come and make them to bow before your feet and to know that I have loved you.
Revelation 2:9, 3:9

The anti-Christ is one claiming to be Jesus and doing miracles.

But yet he will be having people to pay homage to a king that will have seemed to be healed from death.

In Revelation the beast as a whole is a kingdom, with seven major kings, and ten minor kings.
[ Rev 17:8-12 ]

One of the major kings gets wounded and healed Rev 13:3.

That wounded/healed king is then himself referred to as the beast. [ Rev 19:20-21 ]

That wounded/healed king will speak blaspheme about what is in heaven Revelation 13:6.

And will usher in the anti-Christ, one claiming to be Jesus. [ Rev 13:11-18 ]

Whatever the image of the beast is, will Both speak and cause those who don't worship it to be killed. [ Rev 13:15 ]

I believe it is high technology, associated with the very "phones" we all carry around now....

Whatever the mark of the beast is, clearly represents the number 666. That is the clue given.

Douggg · Mar 6, 2024

The false prophet is the same as the beast from the sea who brings worship to the beast (from the sea) as seen in Revelation 13.

d taylor said:
Now John plainly writes in 1st John 4, that false prophets are antichrist, the descriptions are in the same context. So when the title antichrist is not seen used in Revelation but what is seen is the use of false prophet. How not can the false prophet, not be the same as the antichrist.
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

You were doing pretty good in your post, till you reason that being the false prophet is the Antichrist based on the above verse.

The false prophet will exhibit the spirit of Antichrist - I agree. But being a false prophet that does not make him "the" Antichrist.

If you would go back to the opening post, I explained why the Antichrist must be a king - and specifically as the King of Israel, thought to be messiah by the Jews.

John wrote 1John which you are quoting from. Many of the supporting text about the Antichrist being a future King of Israel, thought to be messiah by the Jews - comes from the gospel of John. So John had been explaining about Antichrist, all along, because in 1John2:!8 - he point out "which you have heard was coming".

There is nothing in the gospel of John about the Antichrist demanding worship of another person -like the false prophet in Revelation 13 does.

Douggg · Mar 6, 2024

contratodo said:
And will usher in the anti-Christ, one claiming to be Jesus. [ Rev 13:11-18 ]

Hi contratodo, as we all are trying to understand the end times prophecies, least we get too upset with each other when we disagree, let us remember the first priority in life is to seek first the kingdom of God.

Regarding the thought that the Antichrist will claim to be Jesus, no that will not happen because the spirit of Antichrist is to deny that Jesus is the messiah.

-----------------------------------------------------

1. the beast out of the sea as a whole is kingdom of the beast-king.

2. the mortally wounded but healed head is the beast-king. That person is the little horn>the prince who shall come>the Antichrist> the revealed man of sin> the beast-king. The person as the beast-king will have before been the Antichrist ( the perceived King of Israel, thought to be messiahs by the Jews)

3. the beast out of the earth is the false prophet. Because he does miracles, including fire coming down from heaven - like Elijah the prophet did - initially he will thought to be Elijah by many, at the beginning of the seven years.

The Jews are expecting Elijah the prophet to come before the beginning of the messianic age. They are also expecting their messiah to be anointed the King of Israel by "known prophet" (to use their words). So, it reasonable to think that they will initially believe the false prophet person to be Elijah the prophet. And that person will anoint the prince who shall come - the King of Israel, making him the Antichrist.

The five stages of the person on the way to his demise, being cast alive into the lake of fire.

1. the little horn - before Gog/Magog event.

2. the prince who shall come - right after the Gog/Magog event

3. the Antichrist - anointed the King of Israel, who will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant (by having the law read to the nation of Israel from the temple mount) to begin the 7 years.

4. the revealed man of sin - 3 years into the 7 years, the Antichrist commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 act, ending his time as the Antichrist.

5. the beast-king - after the revealed man of sin is killed and brought back to life, to become dictator of the beast kingdom.

One God and Father of All · Mar 6, 2024

“Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.” Rev 2:10

The devil is that old serpent, the red dragon, the Antichrist, who will cast some of the believers into prison to have their faith tested ten days. Those who remain faithful unto death, will partake in the first resurrection and also rule with Christ for 1,000 years.

Speaking of the Antichrist, Cyril of Jerusalem (4th century) says:

“At first indeed he will put on a show of mildness (as though he were a learned and discreet person), and of soberness and benevolence : and by the lying signs and wonders of his magical deceit having beguiled the Jews, as though he were the expected Christ, he shall afterwards be characterized by all kinds of crimes of inhumanity and lawlessness, so as to outdo all unrighteous and ungodly men who have gone before him; displaying against all men, but especially against us Christians, a spirit murderous and most cruel, merciless and crafty. And after perpetrating such things for three years and six months only, he shall be destroyed by the glorious second advent from heaven of the only-begotten Son of God, our Lord and Saviour Jesus, the true Christ,…”

Jeffwhosoever · Mar 6, 2024

d taylor said:
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No the false prophet is the antichrist

That may be your opinion, but it isn't the conclusion of the dozens of Bible scholars who have written seminary-level books on eschatology.

Jeffwhosoever · Mar 6, 2024

Douggg said:
Hi Jeff, I agree that the Antichrist is one person and the false prophet is another person.

But the beast-king is the same person as the Antichrist - but in the final stage of his career path (so-to-speak).

Being the Antichrist is only for the three years, thereabouts, of the person being the King of Israel, thought-to be messiah by the Jews.

Later when he becomes the beast-king for 42 months, he is no longer the King of Israel, i.e no longer should he be referred to as the Antichrist.

the little horn, becomes the prince that shall come, becomes the Antichrist, becomes the revealed man of sin, becomes the beast-king.

In a discussion, I often just refer to that individual as "the person" and then add to it whatever stage he is in. So if we all used this convention, our discussions would be less confusing. Try it.

the person as the little horn
the person as the prince that shall come
the person as the Antichrist
the person as the revealed man of sin
the person as the beast-king

Thanks for the clarification. Which person in Scripture is Satan? Don't the false prophet and the Antichrist get thrown into the lake of fire, while Satan is bound for 1000 years during the reign of Christ for the Millenium?

One God and Father of All · Mar 6, 2024

Jeffwhosoever said:
That may be your opinion, but it isn't the conclusion of the dozens of Bible scholars who have written seminary-level books on eschatology.

The AntiChrist is the head of the dragon. The tail follows the head. Therefore, as the head speaks so does the taIl. and the tail would bring in.all whom the head has spoken. If the head says “you shall worship me”, then the tail would say the same. If the head says something, then the tail would be responsible for bringing those who disagree with the head to persecute those who do not agree with the antichrist or head, who is the dragon.

One God and Father of All · Mar 7, 2024

Jeffwhosoever said:
Thanks for the clarification. Which person in Scripture is Satan? Don't the false prophet and the Antichrist get thrown into the lake of fire, while Satan is bound for 1000 years during the reign of Christ for the Millenium?

The Satan and the Antichrist are the same. The Antichrist and his followers are his tail. The tail is the false prophet who preaches the head is the Christ. The two witnesses say that the dragon, or antichrist, is not the true Christ, and then they will be suffered unto death for their faith.

Douggg · Mar 7, 2024

Jeffwhosoever said:
Thanks for the clarification. Which person in Scripture is Satan? Don't the false prophet and the Antichrist get thrown into the lake of fire, while Satan is bound for 1000 years during the reign of Christ for the Millenium?

In Ezekiel 28:16-19 is about Satan during the second half of the seven years. In those verses, it says he will be a terror, but a terror no more. That is when he gets cast into the bottomless pit at Jesus's Second Coming.

Right after the midpoint, Satan gets cast down to earth - woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea (Revelation 12:12), Satan having great wrath knowing his time is short.

Once cast down to earth, Satan will indwell the statue image of the beast, making it appear to come to life to breathe and speak. And also how the people who worship the image will unknowingly be worshiping Satan - until he gets exposed.

My comments in red....

Ezekiel 28:

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub [Satan], from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground [Revelation 12:7-9], I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee [at Jesus's Second Coming, exposed there on the temple mount].

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. [the statue image that will be indwelt by Satan will go up in flames, turned to ashes]

19 All they that know thee among the people [the people that will have been worhipping the statue image]shall be astonished at thee [they will be astonished to find out that they had been unknowingly worshipping Satan]: thou shalt be a terror [for the time, times, half time], and never shalt thou be any more [after being cast into the bottomless pit].

Douggg · Mar 7, 2024

Jeffwhosoever said:
Don't the false prophet and the Antichrist get thrown into the lake of fire, while Satan is bound for 1000 years during the reign of Christ for the Millenium?

Yes.

Douggg · Mar 7, 2024

One God and Father of All said:
The Satan and the Antichrist are the same.

At Jesus's Second Coming, the beast-king (the Antichrist in his final stage) gets cast alive into the lake of fire.

Differently, Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit, for a thousand years, before Satan too will be cast into the lake of fire.

the Antichrist

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