• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The Anointing

James_Lai

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2021
1,100
265
39
Ontario
✟24,480.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Hello.

Jesus is the Christ or the anointed one. Appointed to be a king. So, basically, somebody made a king by somebody else.

This denotes a demoted position to God. If Jesus is the supreme God Himself, why does He need to be appointed to be a king? God is the highest position by default already.

If somebody anoints Jesus to be king of Israel, a very small state in the middle East, then it’s minimization of God. The anointer must be of a higher authority than the anointed. Usually it’s priesthood that anoints a king. And so he is subjugated to the will of the clergy.

Imagine I tell you bow your heads to Tribhuwan the Anointed to be the king of Nepal who is God Himself… You would object that God is not a king of a small country.

To me the title of Christ sounds political and not theological. What do you think?
 

pescador

Wise old man
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2011
8,530
4,779
✟498,934.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Hello.

Jesus is the Christ or the anointed one. Appointed to be a king. So, basically, somebody made a king by somebody else.

This denotes a demoted position to God. If Jesus is the supreme God Himself, why does He need to be appointed to be a king? God is the highest position by default already.

If somebody anoints Jesus to be king of Israel, a very small state in the middle East, then it’s minimization of God. The anointer must be if a higher authority than the anointed.

Imagine I tell you bow your heads to Tribhuwan the Anointed to be the king of Nepal who is God Himself… You would object that God is not a king of a small country.

To me the title of Christ sounds political and not theological. What do you think?

I think that you don't understand the Trinity. “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and the regaining of sight to the blind, to set free those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor". Luke 4:17-19

Jesus came to Earth for a specific reason, a specific task. Would you prefer "commissioned"?
 
  • Like
Reactions: James_Lai
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
11,106
9,162
65
Martinez
✟1,137,057.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hello.

Jesus is the Christ or the anointed one. Appointed to be a king. So, basically, somebody made a king by somebody else.

This denotes a demoted position to God. If Jesus is the supreme God Himself, why does He need to be appointed to be a king? God is the highest position by default already.

If somebody anoints Jesus to be king of Israel, a very small state in the middle East, then it’s minimization of God. The anointer must be of a higher authority than the anointed. Usually it’s priesthood that anoints a king. And so he is subjugated to the will of the clergy.

Imagine I tell you bow your heads to Tribhuwan the Anointed to be the king of Nepal who is God Himself… You would object that God is not a king of a small country.

To me the title of Christ sounds political and not theological. What do you think?
He is the King of the Kingdom of God. There is no higher position.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,335
11,891
Georgia
✟1,091,737.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Hello.

Jesus is the Christ or the anointed one. Appointed to be a king. So, basically, somebody made a king by somebody else.

This denotes a demoted position to God. If Jesus is the supreme God Himself, why does He need to be appointed to be a king? God is the highest position by default already.

If somebody anoints Jesus to be king of Israel, a very small state in the middle East, then it’s minimization of God. The anointer must be of a higher authority than the anointed. Usually it’s priesthood that anoints a king. And so he is subjugated to the will of the clergy.

Imagine I tell you bow your heads to Tribhuwan the Anointed to be the king of Nepal who is God Himself… You would object that God is not a king of a small country.

To me the title of Christ sounds political and not theological. What do you think?

God "leads by example" - He wanted to show us how to obey. He came and said "do as I do".

1 John 2:
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever follows His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says that he remains in Him ought, himself also, walk just as He walked.

As Christians we "follow Christ".

John the baptizer objected when Jesus came to him to be baptized -- John said to Jesus "I myself should be baptized by you -- and do you come to me to be baptized?" -- Jesus had John baptize Him - as an example to us. Not because He needed it.


John 13:
5 Then He *poured water into the basin, and began washing the disciples’ feet and wiping them with the towel which He had tied around Himself. 6 So He *came to Simon Peter. He *said to Him, “Lord, You are washing my feet?” 7 Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing, you do not realize right now, but you will understand later.” 8 Peter *said to Him, “Never shall You wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no place with Me.” 9 Simon Peter *said to Him, “Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head!” 10 Jesus *said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet; otherwise he is completely clean. And you are clean—but not all of you.” 11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; it was for this reason that He said, “Not all of you are clean.”

12 Then, when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments and reclined at the table again, He said to them, “Do you know what I have done for you? 13 You call Me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord’; and you are correct, for so I am. 14 So if I, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. 15 For I gave you an example, so that you also would do just as I did for you. 16 Truly, truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him. 17 If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: James_Lai
Upvote 0

James_Lai

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2021
1,100
265
39
Ontario
✟24,480.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
I think that you don't understand the Trinity. “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and the regaining of sight to the blind, to set free those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor". Luke 4:17-19

Jesus came to Earth for a specific reason, a specific task. Would you prefer "commissioned"?

In the Bible, Messiah is the awaited king of Israel from Davidic lineage
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

James_Lai

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2021
1,100
265
39
Ontario
✟24,480.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
He is the King of the Kingdom of God. There is no higher position.

In the Bible, the title Christos/haMashiach indicates being anointed to the kingdom of Israel. This caused Herod to massacre the innocent babies after Nativity and that was also INRI king of the Jews accusation for His execution.
 
Upvote 0

James_Lai

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2021
1,100
265
39
Ontario
✟24,480.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
God "leads by example" - He wanted to show us how to obey. He came and said "do as I do".

1 John 2:
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever follows His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says that he remains in Him ought, himself also, walk just as He walked.

As Christians we "follow Christ".

John the baptizer objected when Jesus came to him to be baptized -- John said to Jesus "I myself should be baptized by you -- and do you come to me to be baptized?" -- Jesus had John baptize Him - as an example to us. Not because He needed it.


John 13:
5 Then He *poured water into the basin, and began washing the disciples’ feet and wiping them with the towel which He had tied around Himself. 6 So He *came to Simon Peter. He *said to Him, “Lord, You are washing my feet?” 7 Jesus answered and said to him, “What I am doing, you do not realize right now, but you will understand later.” 8 Peter *said to Him, “Never shall You wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no place with Me.” 9 Simon Peter *said to Him, “Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head!” 10 Jesus *said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet; otherwise he is completely clean. And you are clean—but not all of you.” 11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; it was for this reason that He said, “Not all of you are clean.”

12 Then, when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments and reclined at the table again, He said to them, “Do you know what I have done for you? 13 You call Me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord’; and you are correct, for so I am. 14 So if I, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. 15 For I gave you an example, so that you also would do just as I did for you. 16 Truly, truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him. 17 If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them.

How is it related to the OP?
 
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
11,106
9,162
65
Martinez
✟1,137,057.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In the Bible, the title Christos/haMashiach indicates being anointed to the kingdom of Israel. This caused Herod to massacre the innocent babies after Nativity and that was also INRI king of the Jews accusation for His execution.
He is the King of the Kingdom of God. There is no higher position.
 
  • Like
Reactions: James_Lai
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
11,106
9,162
65
Martinez
✟1,137,057.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Already responded.
I know but what you are missing is He is the King of HIS Kingdom ,not geopolitical Israel. That was a type and shadow. The new ISRAEL are those who are in His Body and He is King.
Blessings
 
  • Like
Reactions: James_Lai
Upvote 0

Martinius

Catholic disciple of Jesus
Jul 2, 2010
3,573
2,915
The woods and lakes of the Great North
✟67,725.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
To me the title of Christ sounds political and not theological. What do you think?
The title "Christ" means Messiah, and some scholars refer to Jesus as "Jesus Messiah" or "the Messiah Jesus". And yes, the idea of a messiah in Judaism at that time WAS political. The Messiah was to be appointed/ordained by God to deliver Israel from its oppressors, and lead the nation to freedom and renewed greatness; a political and quasi-military leader. It is similar to the story of Moses.

The Messiah was therefore not supposed to be God, the son of God, or anything like that, but someone chosen by God for a special purpose. The Jews were looking for such a Messiah, and many people thought that's who and what Jesus was. Including some or most of his disciples. But it turned out much differently.

Jesus was obviously not the King of Israel, and he was not "appointed" by anyone to that role. It was an assumption that people made, a hope that they had in their yearning for liberty. His kingdom was not of this earth, as he told Pilate. And it was, and is, much greater than one nation, one place, one people.

Messiah is a title that was given to Jesus, but it is simply not an accurate label. Christians have confused that title with "Son of God", and they are two very different things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: James_Lai
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,415
28,829
Pacific Northwest
✟808,485.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Hello.

Jesus is the Christ or the anointed one. Appointed to be a king. So, basically, somebody made a king by somebody else.

Kings, priests, and prophets were anointed, or had oil applied to them that sealed and signified their role. For example the Prophet Samuel anointed David because David was chosen to be king of Israel.

The word meshiach, in Hebrew, can be used in a more generic sense such as this. An example would be King Cyrus of the Persian Empire who is called "My messiah" in the Bible. In this case Cyrus was the anointed, or chosen, to free the Jews from their captivity.

This denotes a demoted position to God. If Jesus is the supreme God Himself, why does He need to be appointed to be a king? God is the highest position by default already.

Jesus is also human. Yes, He is God the Son, only-begotten of the Father; but He became human, He was (and still is) really, truly human.

It is generally believed that one of the oldest Christian hymns is preserved by St. Paul in his letter to the Philippians where he writes,

"[...]Christ Jesus, who though was in the form of God, did not count equality with God something to exploit, but emptied Himself, by taking on the form of a slave, born in human likeness. And found in human form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." - Philippians 2:6-11

There is a lot being said here, but let's break down some of the key things:

"Christ Jesus, who though was in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to exploit"

The opening line here establishes that Jesus is has Divine status, an eternal Divine status, called here both having God's form and equality with God.

Jesus, however, who though God humbled Himself, lowered Himself, "emptied" Himself. He who is through all eternity God the Son, co-eternal, co-equal with the Father; became a man. In the Epistle to the Hebrews the author there writes, "He was made a little lower than the angels". The Eternal Son of God became human, Deity united with humanity.

That's the Incarnation. God became man.

"[He] emptied Himself by taking on the form of a slave, born in human likeness. And found in human form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on the cross."

Elsewhere Paul compares and contrasts Jesus with Adam. Where the first man, Adam, fell by disobedience and therefore brings ruin to the world, Jesus, the second Adam, is obedient and through His obedience rescues and redeems the world.

The Son lowers Himself, empties Himself, He comes and shares fully and truly in our weak, fragile, mortal humanity. Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant Christians subscribe to the Definition of Chalcedon, an ancient Christian confession of faith; in which we confess that Jesus is "truly God and truly human, of both a rational soul and a body; of the same substance of the Father according to His Deity, and also of the same substance as us according to His humanity. Like us in every respect, except sin."

"Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,"

The Son of Man, in Daniel's vision, (and "Son of Man" is Jesus' preferred way to refer to Himself in the Gospels) is taken up before the "Ancient of Days" to "receive kingdom, authority, and everlasting dominion". The coming messianic kingdom that will mean the end of all the kingdoms of this world.

In contrast to the general expectations of the time--that when the messiah comes he will lead Israel in battle against the foreign nations, and reign on the earthly throne of his father David in Jerusalem--Jesus' claim to Messiah-ship and the Christian confession and belief about Jesus being the Messiah is very and emphatically different.

Jesus didn't raise any army, He didn't lead a revolution against Herod and Pontius Pilate. The Shekinah didn't return to the Temple in Jerusalem. And Jesus was never crowned king and seated on an earthly throne.

But Jesus is the Son of David, the Messiah, the King. He reigns as King Messiah, not in an earthly city, over a small nation in the Levant; He reigns as the King Messiah and Lord of heaven and earth, of all creation. And as King Messiah He lives and reigns, and will come again, with everlasting kingdom and world without end.

"so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Without being pretty familiar with the Bible it's easy to miss fully all that is being said here. It is of course part of the exaltation of the Messiah, as mentioned just before this; but it is also echoing strongly the language from the Prophet Isaiah where God says, "By Myself I have sworn; truth from My mouth has gone out in justice a word that shall not return: 'To Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.' (Isaiah 45:23). The allusion back to Isaiah is part of the way Jesus is being identified with Israel's God.

Jesus, who has always been God, and never ceased being God, and will always be God became human, and He remains human, and will forever be human. God and man. In becoming man He humbled Himself, lowered Himself; and even as He lowered Himself in humility He has been exalted. The lowly virgin-born Child who was laid in a feeding trough for livestock is the One who made the cosmos to be, the crucified Victim of the cross, the son of a carpenter in Nazareth, was raised up, He ascended, and sits at the right hand of His Father in heaven, as King of kings and Lord of lords.

If somebody anoints Jesus to be king of Israel, a very small state in the middle East, then it’s minimization of God. The anointer must be of a higher authority than the anointed. Usually it’s priesthood that anoints a king. And so he is subjugated to the will of the clergy.

Jesus is also the Great High Priest, in addition to being the King of Israel. But you'll notice that Christians don't say that Jesus became a king of a small middle eastern state.

Jesus is Lord of the whole universe. On of the many worshipful epithets that we ascribe to the Lord Jesus is Pantokrator, a Greek word literally meaning "All-Ruler", "Ruler of All". At the end of the Gospel of Matthew Jesus says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me" It is with this authority that He commissions His Church to go out and make disciples, baptizing, preaching His Gospel, and to love our neighbor and do good works, etc.

Imagine I tell you bow your heads to Tribhuwan the Anointed to be the king of Nepal who is God Himself… You would object that God is not a king of a small country.

To me the title of Christ sounds political and not theological. What do you think?

It's because of Jesus' lowliness that He is exalted. The God of the universe became small, and was put to death shamefully, mocked, abandoned by almost everyone close to Him.

St. Augustine of Hippo, one of the most important theologians of Western Christianity said that Jesus is Victor quia Victima, "The Victor because a Victim".

-CryptoLutheran
 
  • Like
Reactions: James_Lai
Upvote 0

James_Lai

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2021
1,100
265
39
Ontario
✟24,480.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
I know but what you are missing is He is the King of HIS Kingdom ,not geopolitical Israel. That was a type and shadow. The new ISRAEL are those who are in His Body and He is King.
Blessings

Reading the Bible, it’s pretty clear what the meaning of the awaited Anointed one is.
 
Upvote 0

James_Lai

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2021
1,100
265
39
Ontario
✟24,480.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
The title "Christ" means Messiah, and some scholars refer to Jesus as "Jesus Messiah" or "the Messiah Jesus". And yes, the idea of a messiah in Judaism at that time WAS political. The Messiah was to be appointed/ordained by God to deliver Israel from its oppressors, and lead the nation to freedom and renewed greatness; a political and quasi-military leader. It is similar to the story of Moses.

The Messiah was therefore not supposed to be God, the son of God, or anything like that, but someone chosen by God for a special purpose. The Jews were looking for such a Messiah, and many people thought that's who and what Jesus was. Including some or most of his disciples. But it turned out much differently.

Jesus was obviously not the King of Israel, and he was not "appointed" by anyone to that role. It was an assumption that people made, a hope that they had in their yearning for liberty. His kingdom was not of this earth, as he told Pilate. And it was, and is, much greater than one nation, one place, one people.

Messiah is a title that was given to Jesus, but it is simply not an accurate label. Christians have confused that title with "Son of God", and they are two very different things.

So Christianity worships a political figure by saying Jesus the King of Israel? As Christ/Messiah carries such meaning. Like Joseph the President, for example
 
Upvote 0

James_Lai

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2021
1,100
265
39
Ontario
✟24,480.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Kings, priests, and prophets were anointed, or had oil applied to them that sealed and signified their role. For example the Prophet Samuel anointed David because David was chosen to be king of Israel.

The word meshiach, in Hebrew, can be used in a more generic sense such as this. An example would be King Cyrus of the Persian Empire who is called "My messiah" in the Bible. In this case Cyrus was the anointed, or chosen, to free the Jews from their captivity.



Jesus is also human. Yes, He is God the Son, only-begotten of the Father; but He became human, He was (and still is) really, truly human.

It is generally believed that one of the oldest Christian hymns is preserved by St. Paul in his letter to the Philippians where he writes,

"[...]Christ Jesus, who though was in the form of God, did not count equality with God something to exploit, but emptied Himself, by taking on the form of a slave, born in human likeness. And found in human form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." - Philippians 2:6-11

There is a lot being said here, but let's break down some of the key things:

"Christ Jesus, who though was in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to exploit"

The opening line here establishes that Jesus is has Divine status, an eternal Divine status, called here both having God's form and equality with God.

Jesus, however, who though God humbled Himself, lowered Himself, "emptied" Himself. He who is through all eternity God the Son, co-eternal, co-equal with the Father; became a man. In the Epistle to the Hebrews the author there writes, "He was made a little lower than the angels". The Eternal Son of God became human, Deity united with humanity.

That's the Incarnation. God became man.

"[He] emptied Himself by taking on the form of a slave, born in human likeness. And found in human form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on the cross."

Elsewhere Paul compares and contrasts Jesus with Adam. Where the first man, Adam, fell by disobedience and therefore brings ruin to the world, Jesus, the second Adam, is obedient and through His obedience rescues and redeems the world.

The Son lowers Himself, empties Himself, He comes and shares fully and truly in our weak, fragile, mortal humanity. Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant Christians subscribe to the Definition of Chalcedon, an ancient Christian confession of faith; in which we confess that Jesus is "truly God and truly human, of both a rational soul and a body; of the same substance of the Father according to His Deity, and also of the same substance as us according to His humanity. Like us in every respect, except sin."

"Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,"

The Son of Man, in Daniel's vision, (and "Son of Man" is Jesus' preferred way to refer to Himself in the Gospels) is taken up before the "Ancient of Days" to "receive kingdom, authority, and everlasting dominion". The coming messianic kingdom that will mean the end of all the kingdoms of this world.

In contrast to the general expectations of the time--that when the messiah comes he will lead Israel in battle against the foreign nations, and reign on the earthly throne of his father David in Jerusalem--Jesus' claim to Messiah-ship and the Christian confession and belief about Jesus being the Messiah is very and emphatically different.

Jesus didn't raise any army, He didn't lead a revolution against Herod and Pontius Pilate. The Shekinah didn't return to the Temple in Jerusalem. And Jesus was never crowned king and seated on an earthly throne.

But Jesus is the Son of David, the Messiah, the King. He reigns as King Messiah, not in an earthly city, over a small nation in the Levant; He reigns as the King Messiah and Lord of heaven and earth, of all creation. And as King Messiah He lives and reigns, and will come again, with everlasting kingdom and world without end.

"so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Without being pretty familiar with the Bible it's easy to miss fully all that is being said here. It is of course part of the exaltation of the Messiah, as mentioned just before this; but it is also echoing strongly the language from the Prophet Isaiah where God says, "By Myself I have sworn; truth from My mouth has gone out in justice a word that shall not return: 'To Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.' (Isaiah 45:23). The allusion back to Isaiah is part of the way Jesus is being identified with Israel's God.

Jesus, who has always been God, and never ceased being God, and will always be God became human, and He remains human, and will forever be human. God and man. In becoming man He humbled Himself, lowered Himself; and even as He lowered Himself in humility He has been exalted. The lowly virgin-born Child who was laid in a feeding trough for livestock is the One who made the cosmos to be, the crucified Victim of the cross, the son of a carpenter in Nazareth, was raised up, He ascended, and sits at the right hand of His Father in heaven, as King of kings and Lord of lords.



Jesus is also the Great High Priest, in addition to being the King of Israel. But you'll notice that Christians don't say that Jesus became a king of a small middle eastern state.

Jesus is Lord of the whole universe. On of the many worshipful epithets that we ascribe to the Lord Jesus is Pantokrator, a Greek word literally meaning "All-Ruler", "Ruler of All". At the end of the Gospel of Matthew Jesus says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me" It is with this authority that He commissions His Church to go out and make disciples, baptizing, preaching His Gospel, and to love our neighbor and do good works, etc.



It's because of Jesus' lowliness that He is exalted. The God of the universe became small, and was put to death shamefully, mocked, abandoned by almost everyone close to Him.

St. Augustine of Hippo, one of the most important theologians of Western Christianity said that Jesus is Victor quia Victima, "The Victor because a Victim".

-CryptoLutheran

In Judaism, according to the Bible Messiah is the King of Israel to establish a great kingdom. So when we say Jesus Christ which means Jesus the Messiah or Jesus the Anointed One or basically Jesus the King (of Israel) we worship the political figure, such as Benjamin Netanyahu the Prime-Minister, or Joseph Biden the President, or Xi Jinping the Chairman. Same thing.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,415
28,829
Pacific Northwest
✟808,485.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
In Judaism, according to the Bible Messiah is the King of Israel to establish a great kingdom. So when we say Jesus Christ which means Jesus the Messiah or Jesus the Anointed One or basically Jesus the King (of Israel) we worship the political figure, such as Benjamin Netanyahu the Prime-Minister, or Joseph Biden the President, or Xi Jinping the Chairman. Same thing.

Not quite. Also Judaism and Christianity obviously have different views of what "messiah" exactly means. If there were agreement between Jews and Christians on this, then there wouldn't be two different religions.

Also, in traditional Christian teaching, the concept of "Israel" is connected to the Church. In other words, Israel and the Church are the same thing. There are some Christians who subscribe to what is called "Dispensationalism", but this is a fringe view among only a very small minority of Protestants.

Jesus is the King of Israel, but that doesn't mean He's the king of a tiny nation in the Middle East. Because "the Israel of God" covers all people, nations, and tribes through the Gospel. In his letter to the Romans St. Paul describes God's people as an olive tree, with natural branches (Jews) and wild branches that are grated onto the tree (Gentiles). Through Jesus the Messiah Gentiles have been brought in and have become members of "the commonwealth of Israel" (Ephesians 2:12).

This is in fulfillment to the ancient word of the Prophets that the nations would come to God's holy mountain and worship at God's Temple. But it's not a literal mountain, nor a building of stone. Rather, Jesus Christ is Himself the Holy Temple, which He said, "Tear down this temple and in three days I will raise it up" speaking of His body. And because Christians are people who have been mystically united to Christ, have become members of His Body, which is the Church, we are (as the Church) likewise called the Temple of God. The preaching of the Gospel among the nations is the call and invitation for the nations to come and worship the God of Israel.

Jesus reigns as Lord and Christ, the King Messiah, not from a temporal throne, but an eternal and everlasting throne. For the Throne promised to the Messiah Son of David is an everlasting throne and kingdom (2 Samuel 7:16, Psalms 89:3-4). Christians understand that this throne and kingdom is NOT an earthly kingdom in the Middle East, it is His heavenly throne at the right hand of the Father in heaven.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: James_Lai
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,335
11,891
Georgia
✟1,091,737.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
How is it related to the OP?

In your OP you ask how it is that Jesus would have the role as "servant" as humble and obedient, as being given permission to do something, or given a gift, or granted something ... when in fact He is Almighty God - second person of the Godhead.

I point out in my post - that He had a specific "purpose" a mission , something to accomplish. Instead of being an example to us of "how to BE God" He came as an example of how to be the child of God , humble, obedient etc.

John 1 - in the beginning was the WORD the WORD was with God and in fact the WORD WAS GOD.
... "The WORD became flesh and dwelt among us".

His job as the WORD is to reveal, to explain infinite God to finite beings in a way we can understand and by example show us how to live as children of God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: James_Lai
Upvote 0

James_Lai

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2021
1,100
265
39
Ontario
✟24,480.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
This church seems to stress the original meaning of Christ:

D11B9D19-1256-4651-BD1E-31D92D4FCD47.jpeg
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,415
28,829
Pacific Northwest
✟808,485.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
This church seems to stress the original meaning of Christ:

View attachment 311104

And if you listen to enough Christian hymns and our prayers, you'll see that we regularly confess the Kingship of Jesus Christ.

From the O Antiphons, a set of small chanted hymns from Late Antiquity (on which the modern Advent hymn "O Come, O Come Emanuel" is derived),

O Rex Gentium, et desideratus earum,
lapisque angularis, qui facis utraque unum:
veni, et salva hominem,
quem de limo formasti.


"O King of the nations, and their desire,
the cornerstone making both one:
Come and save the human race,
which you fashioned from clay.
"

Also, "Christ" means a LOT more than just "king".

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Martinius

Catholic disciple of Jesus
Jul 2, 2010
3,573
2,915
The woods and lakes of the Great North
✟67,725.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So Christianity worships a political figure by saying Jesus the King of Israel? As Christ/Messiah carries such meaning. Like Joseph the President, for example
Not quite. How people viewed Jesus at the time was different than how he was viewed later and is viewed today.

Besides being thought of as Messiah by some, Jesus was also called Rabbi, teacher or Master by many, including his closest disciples. Others called him a prophet. He was indeed teacher and prophet.

There were moments in the Gospels where people around him wanted to declare him "king". But the people, a relatively small number at that, would have had no power or authority to do that. And Jesus prevented that from happening. The title "king of the Jews" given him during his passion was meant to humiliate him, to demean him and the Jewish people.

What one sees throughout the Gospels is that Jesus had a mesmerizing effect on people. They followed him, literally chased him at times. They were hungry for what he was giving them. His teachings and his persona obviously struck a chord with many people, and not just the Israelites, which implies that he was speaking universal truths that all people could understand and appreciate.

Jesus was seen by some as a political figure, someone who would liberate and re-establish the earthly nation of Israel, but that was then. We can see from Paul's letters, the Acts of the Apostles, and other later writings, that the idea of Jesus as a political leader had been dropped, and replaced with the view of Jesus as the Son of God, whose kingdom was not on earth.
 
Upvote 0