The Amazing Truth In 2john

[Cribstyl]

I am known for criticizing how people use isolated text and keywords to teach that christian are under the law. Someone recently posted from2Jon linked with other texts in his attempt to make the word commandments, no other than the 10 commandments.

2JOHN1 [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that WE LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[6] AND THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

In John, you can read how we are to love our neighbour according to the NEW TESTAMENT. It’s the same way that it says in the old testament. KEEP GODS 10 COMMANDMENTS. Its been there right from the beginning. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever.

The question is, does this mean the 10 commandments?

As usual I read the chapter. In this case the chapter is a complete letter. We can easily study this book of the bible to understand the context and content.

Dont just stand by......Post some text from this book and spill your guts That's why we're here.



Greeting
1The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth,
2because of the truth that abides in us and will be with us forever:
3Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ the Father's Son, in truth and love.
Walking in Truth and Love
4I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father.
5And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another.
6And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.
7For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.
8Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we [fn1] have worked for, but may win a full reward.
9Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting,
11for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

Final Greetings
12Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use paper and ink. Instead I hope to come to you and talk face to face, so that our joy may be complete.

13The children of your elect sister greet you.

 

[Cribstyl]

Greeting
1The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth,
2because of the truth that abides in us and will be with us forever:
3Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ the Father's Son, in truth and love.


My comments of Verses 1-3.

This short book of the bible appears as a letter we would write to someone we know and love.

Verse 1 put's a lot of stock in saying... "lady I love you trully," and "all those who know the truth loves you too."
Whatever the truth is, it appear to command or demand that we love. What do you think?

Scholars devide on whether John is addressing a lady or a church. What do you think?

Verse 2 is a clue, that the truth is living and abiding forever with those who know this truth. It's must be knowlege that we can never put to the side. What do you think?

Verse 3 also speaks mysteries in the greeting. It saying that,
Grace, Mercy and Peace is from the Father and Jesus
if we are living in Truth and Love. What do you think?

I could end commenting but there is so much more wisdom to secure form those text.

Here are some more ideas given from verse 3.

"Grace" is unmerrited favor, Paul said about grace; Eph 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:


"Mercy" give us forgiveness of sin... Peter said about mercy, 1Pe 1:3Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


"Peace" is living without fear,Paul said about peace....

Rom 5:1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:


Could the truth that John is talking about be an understanding about Grace, Mercy and Peace?
1Ti 2:4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


2Ti 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


crib

 

[djconklin]

to teach that christian are under the law.

Who teaches that Christians are under the condemnation of the law (which what the phrase means)?

The law is based on the principle of love--who wouldn't want that?

 

[annie1speed]

I believe the elect lady of verse 1 is the church. And the truth here refers to the truth found today in God's Word. Today we point to the Bible as our unerring source of God's truth, but what about in the times that the letter was written? The New Testament had not been written and assembled then, so what truth did the elect lady know? What was the church's source of truth? I believe it was the Gospel message. The good news that Jesus the Messiah had come and died for the sins of the world. And the source of that truth? The inspired messages, the letters and words of the apostles, verified and supported by the Messianic Prophecies of the Old Testament.

 

[Cribstyl]

Who teaches that Christians are under the condemnation of the law (which what the phrase means)?

I said "under the law"...... (it means what it says it means )
When you and others keep posting "keywords" using isolated texts and saying that everyone should keeping the sabbath, we understand that to mean being "under the law."
When your statements seem questionable, your texts are being examined one by one in their propper context. You should appreciate a study of your texts and statements.

Gal 3:10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
This text clearly teach that faith and being under the law are two seperate options. Facts are, the Jews chose both, but Paul was sent primarily to the Gentiles. The ugly truth is how you use his doctrine to put people under the law.


Gal 4:4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
this text blows away text posted of Christ being under the Law, because He was supposed to be. So when you say Christ kept it, SO WHAT!!! He had too. Why do you select only the sabbath and not other ceromonial laws that He kept?

Gal 4:5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gentiles who are adopted becomes children of God without being under the law

Gal 4:21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Dj, these texts does not say condemnation of the law, but I agree that understanding can be understood in many circumstances. But "under the law" means "under the law" in my statement.


Gal 5:18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

A question for you is "why are you under the law?"
....................................................................................................................
When you're ready to comment on 2John feel free to do so.

Most of my studies in this part of the forum is because someone dropped something about the law and normally run away from explanation what they took out of context.

CRIB

 

[Cribstyl]

I believe the elect lady of verse 1 is the church. And the truth here refers to the truth found today in God's Word. Today we point to the Bible as our unerring source of God's truth, but what about in the times that the letter was written? The New Testament had not been written and assembled then, so what truth did the elect lady know? What was the church's source of truth? I believe it was the Gospel message. The good news that Jesus the Messiah had come and died for the sins of the world. And the source of that truth? The inspired messages, the letters and words of the apostles, verified and supported by the Messianic Prophecies of the Old Testament.

I'll subscribe to that . well spoken, Annie

 

[Cribstyl]

Walking in Truth and Love

4I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father.

The father commanded that we walk in truth


5And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another.

John said, I'm not giving you a new commandment but the one which Jesus taugh us, that we should love each other. (Was John was qouting what He heard from Jesus at the beginning of Jesus ministery or was He quoting the old testament?)

If Jesus called it new and John called it new, so now we know John is referencing Jesus exact words from John chapter 13,14 and 15 rather than Moses in Deut or Lev.


6And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.

John spoke about the 2 beginnings, in verse 5 we have had from the beginning, and in verse 6 you have heard from the beginning, "We" are most likely the disciples of Jesus and "You" are the lady (the church).

What do you think these text are saying?



These texts below are what John is repeating


Jhn 13:34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jhn 13:35By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Jhn 15:12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.


What is the truth that we should walk in?


When these text are isolated and taken out of their they can say what some people want to convey, but this book reenforce what John wrote earlier in his life in the gospel of John. Where Jesus speak to His apostle, telling them His commandments


CRIB

 

[capnator]

A question for you is "why are you under the law?"

CRIB

In the same way that most Christians keep the stronger commandments ie. the 9 that survived being nailed to the cross 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9 & 10

I consider myself to be keep those + number 4. You could argue about what under means, you could come up with some funky reasoning why we aren't under these commands and yet we still don't break them. But it really is funny how all the rest are still kept in christianity?

So no matter how much people jump up and down about it, or what angle they pursue this from in essence it just boils down to this... How do we eliminate the fourth commandment.

 

[Cribstyl]

In the same way that most Christians keep the stronger commandments ie. the 9 that survived being nailed to the cross 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9 & 10

I consider myself to be keep those + number 4. You could argue about what under means,

you could come up with some funky reasoning why we aren't under these commands and yet we still don't break them. But it really is funny how all the rest are still kept in christianity?

So no matter how much people jump up and down about it, or what angle they pursue this from in essence it just boils down to this... How do we eliminate the fourth commandment.

Speaking about funky reasoning, arguments and jumping up and down.
The question was simply "why are you under the law?" Your answer shows frustration at those who wont keep the 4th commandment.
Multiple text was posted saying that we're not under the law. I made no reasoning comments on those Galatian texts, or of what "UNDER" means. So the question is what does "UNDER" means to you?
Your whole argument avoided those texts and giving a reasonable answer to my question you extracted from a dialog.


Are these text in Galatians isolated out of context the same way I beleive the word "commandments" are taken to mean only"the ten commandment?

Many arguments have been heard before. My goal for this thread is to look at scriptures in 2John used to say that commandments are the law.

We can discuss anything you want, but if you have no word from God to support your arguments, why should I buy into your deep convictions?

Where have I presented anything your termed as "funky reasoning"?

In Peace
CRIB

 

[Jimlarmore]

I believe the elect lady of verse 1 is the church. And the truth here refers to the truth found today in God's Word. Today we point to the Bible as our unerring source of God's truth, but what about in the times that the letter was written? The New Testament had not been written and assembled then, so what truth did the elect lady know? What was the church's source of truth? I believe it was the Gospel message. The good news that Jesus the Messiah had come and died for the sins of the world. And the source of that truth? The inspired messages, the letters and words of the apostles, verified and supported by the Messianic Prophecies of the Old Testament.

The good news and gospel message indeed was what the church was being given for sure. But when you speak of their knowledge of the commandments and what that really was there is no doubt that it was referring to the ten commandments. Let's examine some facts.

1. At this point none of the epistles of Paul or any of the apostles were wide spread and available to the Christians. That is what this book was doing was providing guidance to God's people.

2. The only canonized word of God available was the O.T. which was all about the ten commandments.

Taking just these two facts alone it's very reasonable to conclude that when an apostles was speaking of "The Commandments of God" that it was indeed the ten commandments that they were referring to. To say other wise is not taking all aspects of the Bible into account.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Cribstyl]

The good news and gospel message indeed was what the church was being given for sure.....

You should have stopped there friend.

But when you speak of their knowledge of the commandments and what that really was there is no doubt that it was referring to the ten commandments. Let's examine some facts.

Annie defined the gospel as the message of truth, she did consider no script present in those days, and she said " the gospel was preached

1. At this point none of the epistles of Paul or any of the apostles were wide spread and available to the Christians. That is what this book was doing was providing guidance to God's people.

When, what and why did Paul write to the Romans, Corinthians, Galatian, Ephesians, Collosians, Phillipians, Thessalonians, To Timothy, Titus?
The bible gives us an account of the Gospel being spread without a cannon.

Act 8:25And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Act 14:7
And there they preached the gospel.

Act 14:21And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and [to] Iconium, and Antioch,
Rom 15:19Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
1Cr 15:1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2Cr 11:4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

2Cr 11:7Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
Gal 1:8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 4:13Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
Col 1:23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
1Th 2:9For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
Hbr 4:2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
1Pe 1:12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
1Pe 1:25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

2. The only canonized word of God available was the O.T. which was all about the ten commandments.

Who said they had to have a cannon of all scriptures to believe the gospel? Tens of thousands died for believing in the truth about Jesus Christ before the was a cannon.

Taking just these two facts alone it's very reasonable to conclude that when an apostles was speaking of "The Commandments of God" that it was indeed the ten commandments that they were referring to. To say other wise is not taking all aspects of the Bible into account.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Those 2 socalled facts are not reasonable facts at all, because the gospel was preached. And Christianity grew through the persecution of the Jews and Romans.
We now have the bible that proves what happened and what was preached back then.

You need to prove from this same bible that Christ commandments are the ten commandment.

That's why we're going through these text in 2John. Your indirect appraoch is suspect.



Blessings
CRIB

 

[Cribstyl]

Taking just these two facts alone it's very reasonable to conclude that when an apostles was speaking of "The Commandments of God" that it was indeed the ten commandments that they were referring to. To say other wise is not taking all aspects of the Bible into account.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Your witness, Crib

Thank you, your honor...........ahem,

Considering these text from
2Jo 1:4I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.

2Jo 1:5And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

2Jo 1:6And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.




JimL, isnt it possible that John was quoting Jesus from these passages below?

Jhn 13:34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jhn 13:35By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Jhn 15:12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
------------------------------------------------------
JohnL who would Ye be in this statment and from whom did they hear this message?
1Jo 3:11For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
-----------------------------------------------------
JohnL are these not the Commandments given the disciples to keep?




1Jo 3:22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jo 3:23And this is his commandment,
That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ,
and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jo 3:24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
-----------------------------------------------------

1Jo 2:7Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

1Jo 2:8Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

1Jo 2:9He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1Jo 2:10He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
-----------------------------------------------------


These text show what are Christ commandments, they show what the bible teaches vs what is reasoned without scripture. These text do not add commentary saying that the the law is christ commandments

CRIB

 

[Jimlarmore]

You should have stopped there friend.
Anne defined the gospel as the message of truth, she did consider no script present in those days, but she said " the gospel was preached When, what and why did Paul write to the Romans, Corinthians, Galatian, Ephesians, Collosians, Phillipians, Thessalonians, To Timothy, Titus?
The bible gives us an account of the Gospel being spread without a cannon.

Act 8:25And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

Act 14:7
And there they preached the gospel.

Act 14:21And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and [to] Iconium, and Antioch,
Rom 15:19Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
1Cr 15:1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2Cr 11:4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

2Cr 11:7Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
Gal 1:8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 4:13Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
Col 1:23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
1Th 2:9For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
Hbr 4:2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
1Pe 1:12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
1Pe 1:25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Who said they had to have a cannon of all scriptures to believe the gospel? Tens of thousands died for believing in the truth about Jesus Christ before the was a cannon.

What I am saying is what would be considered as Bible to them was the O.T. because the new testament had not even been formed until many years later. We have little or no evidence that the epistles of Paul of any of the other apostles was copied or circulated widely to the early Christians. Also, their culture was Biblically the Old Testment and yes it's ten commandments. So when they are speaking of the laws of God they are definetely speaking of the ten commandments the only ones they knew of.

Those 2 facts are not reasonable at all, because the gospel was preached. We now have the bible to prove what happened and what was preached.

You need to prove from this same bible that Christ commandments are the ten commandment.

The gospel does not do away with the ten commandments. We already know that Christ's commandments and the ten are the same thing. When He said love God with all your heart and mind and your neighbor as yourself He made it very clear that all of the law and the prophets rested on these two commandments which shows that they are the same. This statement was nothing more than a summation of the ten commandments as a matter of fact.

That's why we're going through these text in 2John.


Truth is, if we took one of those book mentioned above, we can find what is know as the gospel being preached.


Blessings
CRIB

Again, the gospel does not nullify the ten commandments and all of the apostles and Bible writers with the exception of Luke were Jews. Their Bible was the O.T. and the law of God to them was the ten commandments. You can't show otherwise from the narratives of any of the epistles.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Cribstyl]

What I am saying is what would be considered as Bible to them was the O.T. because the new testament had not even been formed until many years later. We have little or no evidence that the epistles of Paul of any of the other apostles was copied or circulated widely to the early Christians. Also, their culture was Biblically the Old Testment and yes it's ten commandments. So when they are speaking of the laws of God they are definetely speaking of the ten commandments the only ones they knew of.

Sorry Jim, that's just peanut butter brother, all you're presenting are debatable arguments outside of scriptures.

(Forced to go offtext to answer you....)
Many Christians were slaves and 90%+ could'nt read. They relied on hearing the gospel from apostles, elders and other leaders. The sinagogues had bibles where the Jews and procylites worshipped on Sabbath, even in these places bibles were few and far away between towns. Yes, Jewish Christains kept the sabbath and the law. But Gentiles wer not commanded nor required to keep Jewish practices. One bible was equivalent to a library at the least, so for you to say what gentiles understood from the bible is questionable.

The gospel does not do away with the ten commandments. We already know that Christ's commandments and the ten are the same thing. When He said love God with all your heart and mind and your neighbor as yourself He made it very clear that all of the law and the prophets rested on these two commandments which shows that they are the same. This statement was nothing more than a summation of the ten commandments as a matter of fact.



Again, the gospel does not nullify the ten commandments and all of the apostles and Bible writers with the exception of Luke were Jews. Their Bible was the O.T. and the law of God to them was the ten commandments. You can't show otherwise from the narratives of any of the epistles.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

you blanket statements have one motive, to stand up doctrines that cant be proven with the bible. So, all you want to do is to send me on a wild chase rather than presenting answers to this court of public inquiry.


So, you're just dropping big loads of peanut butter without proving anything within the bible or outside of it.


IN LOVE
CRIB

 

[ricker]

[

quote=Jimlarmore;42858243]What I am saying is what would be considered as Bible to them was the O.T. because the new testament had not even been formed until many years later.

Do the verses in question say the commands were in the Bible?
I love this. I have heard that the reason there is no instruction for Christians on Sabbath keeping is Christ's example, but now your saying they didn't have the Gospels? Can't have it both ways.

We have little or no evidence that the epistles of Paul of any of the other apostles was copied or circulated widely to the early Christians. Also, their culture was Biblically the Old Testment and yes it's ten commandments. So when they are speaking of the laws of God they are definetely speaking of the ten commandments the only ones they knew of.

Their culture was not Old Testament!

The epistles of John were probably written to the Christians in Ephesus. While we know there were Jews there, there is no question many converts to Christianity were previous followers of their god Artemis. You can't tell me these people would know anything about the law of Moses, including the Sabbath.

I think it is quite a stretch to say the Gentiles for whom most of the epistles were written were culturally Hebrews.

The gospel does not do away with the ten commandments. We already know that Christ's commandments and the ten are the same thing. When He said love God with all your heart and mind and your neighbor as yourself He made it very clear that all of the law and the prophets rested on these two commandments which shows that they are the same. This statement was nothing more than a summation of the ten commandments as a matter of fact.

Adventists believe this is somehow a summation of the ten therefore restating them, while many Christians believe the whole lists of rules and regulations given to Israel were repaced by this admonition and the ministry of the Spirit.

"40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Does not say they are the one and same, does it? According to this passage, which is greater, the law and prophets or the commands of Jesus of love? What hangs on what?

Again, the gospel does not nullify the ten commandments and all of the apostles and Bible writers with the exception of Luke were Jews. Their Bible was the O.T. and the law of God to them was the ten commandments. You can't show otherwise from the narratives of any of the epistles.

So when the Bible says :

6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

, we can be assured it is speaking of the ten commandments. Thanks for the clarification!

Yes, Paul and the other writers of the epistles were Jews. The thing is many of these letters were written to Gentiles. These Gentiles certainly did not all have the Torah.

God bless! Ricker

 

[Cribstyl]

If my SDA friends would take the time to examine this claim, that "Law" and "commandments" are not always the same thing, they can easily see the difference in scriptures..

Exd 24:12And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.



Mat 22:36Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

The first thing to examine is that commandments are placed into a law.

Commandments can change, laws do not change, but rather they end when you move from under it's jurisdiction. Some noticeable differences are; Laws are for people, animals, land, countries, etc.
Commandments could be for 1person and not for others, or for a people in a certain generation.
This is why they are regiven to each generation and modified as God commands those people through Moses.


The scriptures should alway be true to your understanding.
Believing you alone have the truth, causes you to be frustated because people want to see your truth in context, NOT by reading between the lines.
I wont let you off the hook, because I love you as much as you believe you love me and need me to accept your truth.


The first thing that would clear up is, the understanding of scriptures that says Adam broke a commandment but did not have a law.

If God came and spoke to people at a certain time and place. Let the written record be redeemed as the truth of human history. To say more can contradict God's prophets and confuse God's word.



There are dozens and dozens of commandments given to Christians in the New Testament.
But they are not given as a law. Yes we are to keep God's commandments but when you try to make them the 10 commandment given Moses, you put yourself under a system of law that Jesus fulfilled on the cross.
That's why texts do not contadict when it says plainly "we're not under the law." (these texts gotta haunt you)

Christ being God, took 2 commandments out of the LAW (Torah, books of Moses) and gave it as two new commandments, He said that these two commandments fulfilled all the law and what the prophets wrote about. You want me to understand because these 2 relates to 9 of the 10.com, then the 10 still applies....I see the relationship, but I rather keep what Jesus explained.
His diety is rejected by those who dont see the type that Moses prefigured. They chose the sign over the real thing.

God gave the COI ten commandments as a law, and a also as a covenant. God added many laws and commandments to govern the COI in their generations.

Christian are under the new covenant, not the ten commandment. We're not the people who God will hold accountable for law he gave to others. Christ came and gave us His spirit to live in us, to teach us.

God is a living God, not a dead God,
that why He say " I AM". He exist.
In time past He manifested Himself as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's God. In these last days, through the blood of Jesus He adopts us as His chidren.

Is He's your father, or is He the God of the fathers?

If you seek Him you will know that His commandments written on your heart are for your eyes only.

IN LOVE
CRIB

 

[ricker]

If my SDA friends would take the time to examine this claim, that "Law" and "commandments" are not always the same thing, they can easily see the difference in scriptures..

Exd 24:12And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.



Mat 22:36Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

The first thing to examine is that commandments are placed into a law.

Commandments can change, laws do not change, but rather they end when you move from under it's jurisdiction. Some noticeable differences are; Laws are for people, animals, land, countries, etc.
Commandments could be for 1person and not for others, or for a people in a certain generation.
This is why they are regiven to each generation and modified as God commands those people through Moses.


The scriptures should alway be true to your understanding.
Believing you alone have the truth, causes you to be frustated because people want to see your truth in context, NOT by reading between the lines.
I wont let you off the hook, because I love you as much as you believe you love me and need me to accept your truth.


The first thing that would clear up is, the understanding of scriptures that says Adam broke a commandment but did not have a law.

If God came and spoke to people at a certain time and place. Let the written record be redeemed as the truth of human history. To say more can contradict God's prophets and confuse God's word.



There are dozens and dozens of commandments given to Christians in the New Testament.
But they are not given as a law. Yes we are to keep God's commandments but when you try to make them the 10 commandment given Moses, you put yourself under a system of law that Jesus fulfilled on the cross.
That's why texts do not contadict when it says plainly "we're not under the law." (these texts gotta haunt you)

Christ being God, took 2 commandments out of the LAW (Torah, books of Moses) and gave it as two new commandments, He said that these two commandments fulfilled all the law and what the prophets wrote about. You want me to understand because these 2 relates to 9 of the 10.com, then the 10 still applies....I see the relationship, but I rather keep what Jesus explained.
His diety is rejected by those who dont see the type that Moses prefigured. They chose the sign over the real thing.

God gave the COI ten commandments as a law, and a also as a covenant. God added many laws and commandments to govern the COI in their generations.

Christian are under the new covenant, not the ten commandment. We're not the people who God will hold accountable for law he gave to others. Christ came and gave us His spirit to live in us, to teach us.

God is a living God, not a dead God,
that why He say " I AM". He exist.
In time past He manifested Himself as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's God. In these last days, through the blood of Jesus He adopts us as His chidren.

Is He's your father, or is He the God of the fathers?

If you seek Him you will know that His commandments written on your heart are for your eyes only.

IN LOVE
CRIB

Very nice, CRIB! This clears up a lot of confusing aspects of law and commands that as Christians we disagree on sometimes.
The epistles make a whole lot of sense when these concepts are understood properly.
God bless! Ricker

 

[Jimlarmore]

For the record I have never said the early Christians didn't have the gospel/s. What I said is that the Bible they had at the time was the Old Testament which very much promotes the ten commandments. I also said the gospel does not invalidate the ten commandments. In fact it supports them in every way. Jesus Christ Himself kept the ten commandments and in His dialog with several folks told them to keep the commandments.

Look at this exchange in Matt 19

16

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18

He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Ex 20:13-16 Dt 5:17-20
19


Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ex 20:12 Lev 19:18 Deut 5:16 Matt 5:43 Matt 22:39 Mark 12:31 Rom 13:9 Gal 5:14 Jam 2:8
20

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Here we have Christ Himself telling the rich young ruler to keep the commandments and even listed many of them. So why didn't He tell the rich young ruler not to worry about keeping the commandments? Because the One who gave them to us and wrote them on stone knew they were still very much intact. If that's a bunch of peanut butter , load me up a big PB&J sammy, cause I want more!!!!!

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Jimlarmore]

If my SDA friends would take the time to examine this claim, that "Law" and "commandments" are not always the same thing, they can easily see the difference in scriptures..

Exd 24:12And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.



Mat 22:36Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

The first thing to examine is that commandments are placed into a law.

Commandments can change, laws do not change, but rather they end when you move from under it's jurisdiction. Some noticeable differences are; Laws are for people, animals, land, countries, etc.
Commandments could be for 1person and not for others, or for a people in a certain generation.
This is why they are regiven to each generation and modified as God commands those people through Moses.


The scriptures should alway be true to your understanding.
Believing you alone have the truth, causes you to be frustated because people want to see your truth in context, NOT by reading between the lines.
I wont let you off the hook, because I love you as much as you believe you love me and need me to accept your truth.


The first thing that would clear up is, the understanding of scriptures that says Adam broke a commandment but did not have a law.

If God came and spoke to people at a certain time and place. Let the written record be redeemed as the truth of human history. To say more can contradict God's prophets and confuse God's word.



There are dozens and dozens of commandments given to Christians in the New Testament.
But they are not given as a law. Yes we are to keep God's commandments but when you try to make them the 10 commandment given Moses, you put yourself under a system of law that Jesus fulfilled on the cross.
That's why texts do not contadict when it says plainly "we're not under the law." (these texts gotta haunt you)

Christ being God, took 2 commandments out of the LAW (Torah, books of Moses) and gave it as two new commandments, He said that these two commandments fulfilled all the law and what the prophets wrote about. You want me to understand because these 2 relates to 9 of the 10.com, then the 10 still applies....I see the relationship, but I rather keep what Jesus explained.
His diety is rejected by those who dont see the type that Moses prefigured. They chose the sign over the real thing.

God gave the COI ten commandments as a law, and a also as a covenant. God added many laws and commandments to govern the COI in their generations.

Christian are under the new covenant, not the ten commandment. We're not the people who God will hold accountable for law he gave to others. Christ came and gave us His spirit to live in us, to teach us.

God is a living God, not a dead God,
that why He say " I AM". He exist.
In time past He manifested Himself as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's God. In these last days, through the blood of Jesus He adopts us as His chidren.

Is He's your father, or is He the God of the fathers?

If you seek Him you will know that His commandments written on your heart are for your eyes only.

IN LOVE
CRIB

So how often are you stealing and committing adultery lately? Murdered anyone lately Crib? If we're not under the law then why not do those things as well?

Let's be honest, the only reason this discussion is going on is because of the Sabbath commandment.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[ricker]

For the record I have never said the early Christians didn't have the gospel/s.

Here is a quote from the all about truth website.

It is generally agreed that the Book of Matthew was the first Gospel written and that it was written between A.D. 50 and 75. Of the four Gospel's, John's is considered to have been the last one written, around A.D. 85. The Book of Acts, a historical account of the establishment of the early Christian church, is believed to have been written by one of the Apostle Paul's associates, around A.D. 62 (near the end of Paul's imprisonment in Rome).

The Pauline Epistles (the Apostle Paul's letters to the early church) were authored between A.D. 50 - 67. The author of Hebrews is unknown, but the book is commonly thought to have been written around A.D. 70. The epistles of the other Apostles were written between A.D. 48 - 90.

It is unlikely the Christian church had access to the Gospels before the epistles. As I said, the Gentiles would not have been mostly culturally Jews

What I said is that the Bible they had at the time was the Old Testament which very much promotes the ten commandments.

The availability and understanding of the Old Testament by the Gentiles is debatable.

I also said the gospel does not invalidate the ten commandments. In fact it supports them in every way. Jesus Christ Himself kept the ten commandments and in His dialog with several folks told them to keep the commandments.

Look at this exchange in Matt 19

16

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18

He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Ex 20:13-16 Dt 5:17-20
19


Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ex 20:12 Lev 19:18 Deut 5:16 Matt 5:43 Matt 22:39 Mark 12:31 Rom 13:9 Gal 5:14 Jam 2:8
20

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Here we have Christ Himself telling the rich young ruler to keep the commandments and even listed many of them. So why didn't He tell the rich young ruler not to worry about keeping the commandments? Because the One who gave them to us and wrote them on stone knew they were still very much intact. If that's a bunch of peanut butter , load me up a big PB&J sammy, cause I want more!!!!!

Wasn't the rich young ruler a Hebrew still under the old covenant? Did not Jesus give him even more to do to bury him under the law to drive him to Christ for salvation instead of relying on his own works? This is what I get from the passage.

God bless! Ricker