The Age of the Universe

sparow · Jul 1, 2015

zardak said:
Too all the Christian brethren in here:

The widespread teaching of evolution has dire consequences for our youth, who are leaving the church. Christians who ‘hang in there’ but accept a billions-of-years timescale have a much harder time defending their faith, and thus, this affects church growth. One of the major stumbling blocks to faith is the question: “Why does a good God allow all the death and suffering in the world?” Such believers cannot adequately explain the origin of death (initiated by Adam) and suffering as a reaction to human sin.

Conversely, believers who have a 'biblical' view of the world’s history have a logical platform for introducing God to people with no need to prove obtuse theories. Incidentally, this was precisely the approach that Paul used when preaching to similar Gentile audiences (Acts 14:15-17 / 17:23-31) In Lystra, he used 'creation' as a key identifying factor that set God apart from mere men like himself and Barnabas. And in Athens he took the stoics and other philosophers of the day ‘back to Genesis’ to lay a foundation to introduce them to the true God in the hope that they would repent from their useless idolatry.

If belief in the Bible as plainly written strengthens one’s ability to explain the Gospel, then compromising such facts can have damaging effects, why would any Christian compromise anyway? Practically every Christian leader and theologian who lays-out his reasons for believing in long ages rather than the biblical timescale has to admit that Genesis—when read at face value, in the Hebrew as well as the English translations—teaches a straightforward creation in six normal-length days. And that this is powerfully backed up by Exodus 20:11, part of the Ten Commandments, which shows the Genesis days were understood as 'NORMAL-LENGTH DAYS, with no room for millions of years or gaps in the text to insert speculative time-scales. But they unfortunately accept that science has somehow ‘proved’ millions of years, which actually is not the case.

And remember this one major thing, Christian brethren... NOT ONCE in the Bible is anything mentioned about huge time-spans of earths existence. Do you think God is so reckless that he forgot to mention such a handy thing for us to know if it were true? Wake-up! DO NOT GIVE GROUND TO ANY ATHEIST!!! They are GOD-REJECTORS! And as Jesus said: "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son, hath the Father also."

“Why does a good God allow all the death and suffering in the world?”

Does the Atheist really as this question seeking an answer? Of course not; the Atheist believes death and suffering is a function of evolution, he probably sees the NWO and the scientific dictatorship as functions of evolution; and his question implies that God does not exist.

All this death and suffering is to do with the war in heaven; so too is our need to live once and be judged to do with the war in heaven. Most of the death and suffering God is responsible for having sent out the horses of the apocalypse. In this context the age of the universe is a red herring.

So the why question is very important to Christians who need to have a conviction that God is the good guy and that God is justified in casing the death and suffering and if they are to be saved from the second death, how are they deferent to the ones lost.

Satan’s greatest lie that the 70th week is thrown down to the end of time and the next lie is that salvation is a free gift.

Oafman · Jul 1, 2015

sparow said:
“Why does a good God allow all the death and suffering in the world?”

Does the Atheist really as this question seeking an answer? Of course not

By definition it is impossible for an atheist to seek an answer to that question. If you don't believe any Gods exist you can't ask what they do or do not allow.

But, when i did believe in God, it was that exact question which first got me thinking that maybe the whole thing was simply the product of peoples' imagination

sparow said:
“the NWO and the scientific dictatorship

Neither of those exist either.

AV1611VET · Jul 1, 2015

Oafman said:
But, when i did believe in God, it was that exact question which first got me thinking that maybe the whole thing was simply the product of peoples' imagination

It didn't occur to you that those who suffer get credit for it in the afterlife?

Chriliman · Jul 1, 2015

Oafman said:
By definition it is impossible for an atheist to seek an answer to that question. If you don't believe any Gods exist you can't ask what they do or do not allow.

But, when i did believe in God, it was that exact question which first got me thinking that maybe the whole thing was simply the product of peoples' imagination

Neither of those exist either.

It's a irrational to say "I believe God does not exist"

Heres why.
When you say "I believe God does not exist" what your actually saying is that you accept the truth that the possibility of God is actually impossible. So you're saying you believe the possible is impossible. <this is irrational

You could say "I assume God does not exist", this is a more rational statement.

Heres why.
When you say "I assume God does not exist", you're saying you accept the truth that God may be possible and you also accept the truth that God may not be possible. These are contradicting truths, which just shows you're uncertain about the existence of God. It's fine to be uncertain about the existence of God, just don't say you don't believe in God because that's irrational as I've shown above.

bhsmte · Jul 1, 2015

SpiritRehab said:
There are many Scientific evidences against the lie of the geologic column, but for an adopted son of God, born of the Holy Spirit, given the gift of Faith & the love of Truth, God's testimony is the highest credibility; while science serves as fascinating details, glorifying God for His creation.

Genesis 1:2 - and the earth was without form and void and darkness was on the face of the deep and the spirit of god moved upon the face of the waters.

Just 5 days before God created Adam, the planet was a giant ball of water, without shape and empty; thus no land in it. Then God created light, then space, then land.

Genesis 1:9 - And God said, "Let the waters under heaven, be gathered into one place and let the dry land appear, and it was so.

If you believe those who say, the land was already there, under the water, then you don't believe God when He says, the Earth was without form and void; shapeless & empty.

Also, Gap Theory is wrong, because God first created light, on day 1 and space on day 2; both after Gap Theory's Gap.

We know this was the first time God created light & space, because after creating them, He saw light and liked it and separated it from darkness and then named both light & darkness. Had He already created light before, He would not be separating it from darkness again and naming it, again. Same goes for Space.

Thus, tthe universe cannot be more than 4 days older than Adam, because space was created on day 2.

It is up to you what you believe.
I don't want to pick on you for believing man's science, literally knowledge, truly guesses, over God's own testimony of what He did.

I just want to point out that the theory of an Earth older than 6000-ish years, is Biblically impossible; and not only for the verses I shared, but many other verses in Genesis 1 too. It's there for your review & for the Holy Spirit to inspire you

Love Truth

I see you didn't use any science to make your point.

bhsmte · Jul 1, 2015

Chriliman said:
It's a irrational to say "I believe God does not exist"

Heres why.
When you say "I believe God does not exist" what your actually saying is that you accept the truth that the possibility of God is actually impossible. So you're saying you believe the possible is impossible. <this is irrational

You could say "I assume God does not exist", this is a more rational statement.

Heres why.
When you say "I assume God does not exist", you're saying you accept the truth that God may be possible and you also accept the truth that God may not be possible. These are contradicting truths, which just shows you're uncertain about the existence of God. It's fine to be uncertain about the existence of God, just don't say you don't believe in God because that's irrational as I've shown above.

Makes no sense.

Chriliman · Jul 1, 2015

bhsmte said:
Makes no sense.

The truth only makes sense, when you're not blinded by a lie.

HitchSlap · Jul 1, 2015

Chriliman said:
The truth only makes sense, when you're not blinded by a lie.

Or for those willing to believe anything.

bhsmte · Jul 1, 2015

Chriliman said:
The truth only makes sense, when you're not blinded by a lie.

You would need to demonstrate what is truth and who is blinded by what lie exactly.

You haven't even come close to doing this, you can keep saying stuff like this though, if it makes you feel better.

Michael · Jul 1, 2015

sparow said:
I understand how radar works; the signal transmitted is known and is compared with the returning signal and so the change in frequency distance is calculated but with the red light from stars is not a known frequency bounced back but it originates at the star; it is an assumption that all stars radiate the same spectrum and not unique spectrums. There are systems out there that radiate no visible light but radiate x-ray.

You may be correctly representing the theories but I do not believe them; at best they are shots in the dark. I don’t have a problem with theories but even though the theory of the electron is adequate, no man has ever seen one and even if men had seen one, one would say it looked like a cigar smoking at one end and red at the other while another man would say it looked saucer shaped with a little green man looking out the window.

According to Beiser who talks only of gravitational red shift, the red shift (even when blue light is shifted it is still called red shift) is determined by the density of the star so all stars will be shifted differently or uniquely.

Keep in mind that "Doppler shift" is simply a *bait and switch* device. Doppler shift is "caused by" moving objects, not 'expanding space'.

Colter · Jul 1, 2015

In my theology Paradise is infinite and eternal, the material creations are many trillions of years old. The Andronover nebula is much older than currently believed.

"875,000,000,000 years ago the enormous Andronover nebula number 876,926 was duly initiated. Only the presence of the force organizer and the liaison staff was required to inaugurate the energy whirl which eventually grew into this vast cyclone of space. Subsequent to the initiation of such nebular revolutions, the living force organizers simply withdraw at right angles to the plane of the revolutionary disk, and from that time forward, the inherent qualities of energy insure the progressive and orderly evolution of such a new physical system." UB 1955

Chriliman · Jul 1, 2015

bhsmte said:
You would need to demonstrate what is truth and who is blinded by what lie exactly.

You haven't even come close to doing this, you can keep saying stuff like this though, if it makes you feel better.

The truth is that none of us know the entire truth about why we're all here. Science hasn't figured it out yet, but science is helping to figure out the truth, it's just that you're not going to like the truth when science finally reaches a point where we just can't deny God any longer. Even the Bible says there a secrets and mysteries that will only be revealed near the end of the world and when we're in heaven.

1 Corinthians 13:12
"Now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

Colossians 2:1-3
"For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."

Daniel 12:4
"But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

The mystery of God is being revealed, whether you believe it or not. I suggest you start believing.

bhsmte · Jul 1, 2015

Chriliman said:
The truth is that none of us know the entire truth about why we're all here. Science hasn't figured it out yet, but science is helping to figure out the truth, it's just that you're not going to like the truth when science finally reaches a point where we just can't deny God any longer. Even the Bible says there a secrets and mysteries that will only be revealed near the end of the world and when we're in heaven.

1 Corinthians 13:12
"Now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known."

Colossians 2:1-3
"For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."

Daniel 12:4
"But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

The mystery of God is being revealed, whether you believe it or not. I suggest you start believing.

I don't look to the bible to determine truth. You can though.

AV1611VET · Jul 1, 2015

Colter said:
In my theology Paradise is infinite and eternal, the material creations are many trillions of years old. The Andronover nebula is much older than currently believed.

"875,000,000,000 years ago the enormous Andronover nebula number 876,926 was duly initiated. Only the presence of the force organizer and the liaison staff was required to inaugurate the energy whirl which eventually grew into this vast cyclone of space. Subsequent to the initiation of such nebular revolutions, the living force organizers simply withdraw at right angles to the plane of the revolutionary disk, and from that time forward, the inherent qualities of energy insure the progressive and orderly evolution of such a new physical system." UB 1955

Was this confirmed by Inspector 811307 of the Orvonton series?

Chriliman · Jul 1, 2015

HitchSlap said:
Or for those willing to believe anything.

I'm only wiling to believe what makes sense, because sense is all I have in order to believe anything.

Oafman · Jul 1, 2015

AV1611VET said:
It didn't occur to you that those who suffer get credit for it in the afterlife?

Yes it did, but I dismissed that idea on the basis that it would be unspeakably cruel.

Chriliman said:
It's a irrational to say "I believe God does not exist"

Heres why.
When you say "I believe God does not exist" what your actually saying is that you accept the truth that the possibility of God is actually impossible.

This makes no sense. I believe it's possible for God to exist, but I don't believe he does. The rest of your post appears to be based on this false premise.

HitchSlap · Jul 1, 2015

Chriliman said:
I'm only wiling to believe what makes sense, because sense is all I have in order to believe anything.

Yet, by your own admission, you're willing to believe anything, so long as it's what you want to believe.

Chriliman · Jul 1, 2015

HitchSlap said:
Yet, by your own admission, you're willing to believe anything, so long as it's what you want to believe.

If I don't have my senses, I can't believe anything(anything at all, ever.). I'm sure you agree with this, which means you misunderstood what I meant when I said "I'm only willing to believe what makes sense, because sense is all I have in order to believe anything."

Chriliman · Jul 1, 2015

Oafman said:
Yes it did, but I dismissed that idea on the basis that it would be unspeakably cruel.

This makes no sense. I believe it's possible for God to exist, but I don't believe he does. The rest of your post appears to be based on this false premise.

So you accept the truth that God is possible, but then you accept the truth that this possibility does not exist? So according to you, what is possible actually does not exist. <still seems irrational to me.

Loudmouth · Jul 1, 2015

sparow said:
I understand how radar works; the signal transmitted is known and is compared with the returning signal and so the change in frequency distance is calculated but with the red light from stars is not a known frequency bounced back but it originates at the star; it is an assumption that all stars radiate the same spectrum and not unique spectrums.

Why would hydrogen or oxygen have a different spectrum elsewhere in the universe? These spectra are the product of the fundamental forces in physics. You would have to change the strong, weak, and electrical forces to get different spectra.

http://skyserver.sdss.org/dr2/en/proj/advanced/galaxies/spectra.asp

You may be correctly representing the theories but I do not believe them; at best they are shots in the dark. I don’t have a problem with theories but even though the theory of the electron is adequate, no man has ever seen one and even if men had seen one, one would say it looked like a cigar smoking at one end and red at the other while another man would say it looked saucer shaped with a little green man looking out the window.

We have seen the spectrum of many elements. Those are what we use to determine the wavelength of light when it left the stars.

According to Beiser who talks only of gravitational red shift, the red shift (even when blue light is shifted it is still called red shift) is determined by the density of the star so all stars will be shifted differently or uniquely.

Then why don't we see the same redshift in stars within our own galaxy?

The Age of the Universe

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