The Adventist Dilemma

[Telaquapacky]

Why should it. But it does not make them true either.

[FONT=&quot]Good answer.[/FONT]

Kindly show me where I'm wrong.

[FONT=&quot]I’ll be kinder than that. With apologies, I’ll take back what I said that “you do not understand 1844,” and rephrase it as, “You do not see 1844 the same way I do.” If I understand you correctly it seems to me that the difference between your view of 1844 and mine is this: You assume 1844 is inconsistent with mercy and grace and “Not I but Christ,” therefore you believe it must be a false teaching. I believe 1844 is a true teaching, therefore I assume it must be consistent with mercy and grace and “Not I but Christ.” We are not going to convince one another, my brother. We will have to accept one another anyway.[/FONT]

You avoid the passage in Col 2:15. It says Christ made an open show of Satan and his darkness. Please remember that EGW said the controversy was between Christ and Satan...not us, we are caught in the middle. Its not about us.

[FONT=&quot]I appreciate your concern that Christ’s victory should not be reduced nor the cross be emptied of it’s power. Praise God for the victory that can be ours in Christ! But we should also avoid the opposite extreme of Pollyanna-ish triumphalism, and let down our guard against Satan. The fact that Christ was tempted and triumphed, according to a balanced interpretation of Colossians 2:15 doesn’t excuse us from the battle against temptation. Satan still drags us into the conflict by claiming that we belong to him, rather than God. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Here’s a quote from a mutual friend of ours, from a book called “The Faith I Live By,” pg 327[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The tempter has no power to control the will or to force the soul to sin. He may distress, but he cannot contaminate. He can cause agony, but not defilement. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Satan cannot read our thoughts, but he can see our actions, hear our words; and from his long knowledge of the human family, he can shape his temptations to take advantage of our weak points of character. And how often do we let him into the secret of how he may obtain the victory over us. Oh, that we might control our words and actions! [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Satan assailed Christ with his fiercest and most subtle temptations; but he was repulsed in every conflict. Those battles were fought in our behalf; those victories make it possible for us to conquer. Christ will give strength to all who seek it.[/FONT]

Our relationship with Christ is from faith to faith. We trust Him daily. So how do we fight the good fight of faith? By trusting Jesus...its all about Him.

We're on the same page

Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about trust in the context of salvation. But you have a totally different Idea in mind. Yes we do struggle with making the right choices in life. But even in that we need to understand what ever choice we make...Jesus is there to help us make it right.

-AT

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for understanding, Adventtruth, I’ve been learning the hard way that there is a lot more to faith than the assurance of salvation. In my 26 years as an Adventist, I have never doubted that I was saved. But I have many times let disappointments and gnawing uncertainties of life undermine my trust that God wants me to be happy or successful or that I have His favor. As I got older and the stakes got higher, the gnawing uncertainties grew to the point that I would toss and turn on my bed at night, tortured with worry and grief that maybe my plans did not meet God’s approval, and He would allow me to fall into serious harm or loss to “teach me a lesson.” Finally, when I couldn’t stand it any more I just decided that whatever happened, God is in control. God loves me and has plans to prosper and not to harm me- to give me hope and a future. All His promises are true. I would just rest in Him and trust whatever He brings tomorrow. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The turning point began a few months back when I re-visited a cliff in Malibu where I fell about 28 years ago, and except for a supernatural miracle from God, I was spared death or serious harm. A close friend who was with me shared with me Psalm 91 where it says in verses 11 and 12, “For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.” Without question, God had done this for me- and while I was yet a rebellious sinner![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I looked earlier in Psalm 91 and realized that the other promises God made must be true as well:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 If you make the Most High your dwelling-- even the LORD, who is my refuge--[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 then no harm will befall you, no disaster will come near your tent.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]I feel as if, after 27 years as an Adventist, I am only beginning to learn what it means to really have faith in God. There’s a lot in the Christian life they can’t teach you in Sabbath School. You have to experience it for yourself.[/FONT]

 

[Adventtruth]

[FONT=&quot]

You assume 1844 is inconsistent with mercy and grace and “Not I but Christ,” therefore you believe it must be a false teaching. I believe 1844 is a true teaching, therefore I assume it must be consistent with mercy and grace and “Not I but Christ.” We are not going to convince one another, my brother. We will have to accept one another anyway.

[/FONT]


I believe that the IJ is not biblical for other reasons...mainly that we are Judged in Christ if we are in Christ....after all its His doing and dying for us thats added to us for salvation by grace, through faith alone. The IJ says judgement begain in 1844, no where is this proven in the bible sept throught the interpretation of the SDA church.

[FONT=&quot]

I appreciate your concern that Christ’s victory should not be reduced nor the cross be emptied of it’s power. Praise God for the victory that can be ours in Christ! But we should also avoid the opposite extreme of Pollyanna-ish triumphalism, and let down our guard against Satan. The fact that Christ was tempted and triumphed, according to a balanced interpretation of Colossians 2:15 doesn’t excuse us from the battle against temptation. Satan still drags us into the conflict by claiming that we belong to him, rather than God.

[/FONT]

I never said we let down our guard...we all have temptations. I said that God was already vindicated at the cross through His Son...no greater vindication than that. God is now bringing us to Himself.



[FONT=&quot]

Thank you for understanding, Adventtruth, I’ve been learning the hard way that there is a lot more to faith than the assurance of salvation. In my 26 years as an Adventist, I have never doubted that I was saved. But I have many times let disappointments and gnawing uncertainties of life undermine my trust that God wants me to be happy or successful or that I have His favor. As I got older and the stakes got higher, the gnawing uncertainties grew to the point that I would toss and turn on my bed at night, tortured with worry and grief that maybe my plans did not meet God’s approval, and He would allow me to fall into serious harm or loss to “teach me a lesson.” Finally, when I couldn’t stand it any more I just decided that whatever happened, God is in control. God loves me and has plans to prosper and not to harm me- to give me hope and a future. All His promises are true. I would just rest in Him and trust whatever He brings tomorrow.

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The turning point began a few months back when I re-visited a cliff in Malibu where I fell about 28 years ago, and except for a supernatural miracle from God, I was spared death or serious harm. A close friend who was with me shared with me Psalm 91 where it says in verses 11 and 12, “For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways; they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.” Without question, God had done this for me- and while I was yet a rebellious sinner![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I looked earlier in Psalm 91 and realized that the other promises God made must be true as well:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 If you make the Most High your dwelling-- even the LORD, who is my refuge--[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 then no harm will befall you, no disaster will come near your tent.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]I feel as if, after 27 years as an Adventist, I am only beginning to learn what it means to really have faith in God. There’s a lot in the Christian life they can’t teach you in Sabbath School. You have to experience it for yourself.[/FONT]

Thanks for your testimony. I've also learned in my 20 years of Adventism the truth about God and His extended grace and mercy to us. He does it all. Regardless of what other Adventist think about it...My bible tells me Jesus did it all and continues to be my savour. He gets all the credit, I get to prasie Him and glorify Him every step of the way!

Blessings my friend!


_AT