The Achilles Heel of Atheism

[Tnmusicman]

Christ revealed Himself to me long before I even knew who Dr. Craig was.

And no, I do not question everything, nor would I advise anyone else to question everything. Being a skeptic does not mean that I question everything. Being a skeptic means that I tend to question the questionable. For example, if I read somewhere or heard from someone that a man was going around and people were claiming this man was healing blind deaf and mute people, raising people from the dead, calming the seas, claiming He was God....I would automatically question that. Those things would be questionable. I would not just accept it because someone said it was true. I would investigate, search, research, ask questions etc

By the way, thousands of souls in Indonesia and Iran are coming to Christ. Most of them are doing so despite the ever present threat of ostracism, torture, and death.

Amen to that. Japan and China now lead the world in converts to Christianity. Praise God. It's so disrespectful to refer to God as our " imaginary friend " but thank God that one joker isn't getting his way by people just "dropping God". That's a world I don't want to live in. Btw, I was under the impression that as long as God was kept out of their lives the atheists were okay with religion. Well, if one believes in God and isn't demanding you adhere to the same belief why do we need to "drop God"???

 

[Cearbhall]

Well, if one believes in God and isn't demanding you adhere to the same belief why do we need to "drop God"???

Those individual people do not need to, but we still have laws that force us to adhere to certain religious beliefs.

 

[Non sequitur]

Amen to that. Japan and China now lead the world in converts to Christianity. Praise God. It's so disrespectful to refer to God as our " imaginary friend " but thank God that one joker isn't getting his way by people just "dropping God". That's a world I don't want to live in. Btw, I was under the impression that as long as God was kept out of their lives the atheists were okay with religion. Well, if one believes in God and isn't demanding you adhere to the same belief why do we need to "drop God"???

To an atheist, it's on the same level as calling any imaginary friend disrespectful; no imaginary friends get special treatment.

Most would argue that the believers of your religion won't keep gods out of our lives, so religion becomes not okay.

 

[Elioenai26]

To an atheist, it's on the same level as calling any imaginary friend disrespectful; no imaginary friends get special treatment.

Most would argue that the believers of your religion won't keep gods out of our lives, so religion becomes not okay.

Is that how you feel?

That Jesus Christ is our imaginary friend?

Is that really what you think?

 

[Non sequitur]

Is that how you feel?

That Jesus Christ is our imaginary friend?

Is that really what you think?

Pretty much. In the standard way anybody believes/believed in their imaginary friend.

 

[Elioenai26]

Pretty much. In the standard way anybody believes/believed in their imaginary friend.

Why do you think that?

 

[Sectio Aurea]

Is that how you feel?

That Jesus Christ is our imaginary friend?

Is that really what you think?

Yes, precisely!
How do you discern otherwise?

 

[Cearbhall]

That Jesus Christ is our imaginary friend?

That's one of the most accurate ways to word it, yes.

 

[Non sequitur]

Why do you think that?

It mirrors the abilities and attributes of all other imaginary friends.

 

[HitchSlap]

Is that how you feel?

That Jesus Christ is our imaginary friend?

Is that really what you think?

How would we distinguish Jesus from an imaginary friend?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Is that how you feel?

That Jesus Christ is our imaginary friend?

Is that really what you think?

No, children deep down realize that their imaginary friends aren't real. You fail to realize about Jesus Christ what children realize about their play.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Elioenai26]

Yes, precisely!
How do you discern otherwise?

Pretty much. In the standard way anybody believes/believed in their imaginary friend.

That's one of the most accurate ways to word it, yes.

It mirrors the abilities and attributes of all other imaginary friends.

How would we distinguish Jesus from an imaginary friend?

This is interesting indeed.

Right here we have five atheists (Eudaimonist makes five) that claim Jesus of Nazareth is nothing more than an imaginary friend of Christians.....

Before I engage all of you at once, I must understand what it is that you are saying.

Are all of you saying that Jesus of Nazareth was simply conjured up by the first Christians and was not actually a historical figure at all, or is it your view that the first Christians chose to project onto the historical figure Jesus of Nazareth who was simply a Galilean Jew, their conception of Messiah and make him their imaginary friend?

 

[Freodin]

This is interesting indeed.

Right here we have five atheists (Eudaimonist makes five) that claim Jesus of Nazareth is nothing more than an imaginary friend of Christians.....

Before I engage all of you at once, I must understand what it is that you are saying.

Are all of you saying that Jesus of Nazareth was simply conjured up by the first Christians and was not actually a historical figure at all, or is it your view that the first Christians chose to project onto the historical figure Jesus of Nazareth who was simply a Galilean Jew, their conception of Messiah and make him their imaginary friend?

That's quite a misunderstanding you present here.

None of the answers you got here say that Jesus wasn't a historical figure and was conjured up by the first Christians.

The imaginary friend they are talking about (and I agree with them) is the Jesus that is said to live in your heart. This version did indeed start with the "early Christians"... Paul is a great example of that.

 

[Sectio Aurea]

This is interesting indeed.

Right here we have five atheists (Eudaimonist makes five) that claim Jesus of Nazareth is nothing more than an imaginary friend of Christians.....

Before I engage all of you at once, I must understand what it is that you are saying.

Are all of you saying that Jesus of Nazareth was simply conjured up by the first Christians and was not actually a historical figure at all, or is it your view that the first Christians chose to project onto the historical figure Jesus of Nazareth who was simply a Galilean Jew, their conception of Messiah and make him their imaginary friend?

I cant speak on behalf of all atheists my friend but I'll try and help you understand at least from my own personal POV on the subject.

Ask yourself honestly Elio...

Do you sincerely and absolutely believe Jesus Christ is alive and well today?
Do you have an interpersonal relationship with him?
Do you require his tutelary guidance?
Do you have communication with him?
Does he provide you comfort in times of crisis?
Does he help you make sense of your world-view?
Is he is your friend?

If you answer yes to all these questions above, and you consider yourself an adult, then I am left without a distinction to discern him from an imaginary friend.

What distinction can you offer?

If you want to know my opinion, I believe Jesus of Nazareth was possibly a historical figure, as opposed to the Jesus of the gospels, but my opinion in this context is beside the point that you are detracting from.

 

[Eudaimonist]

This is interesting indeed.

Right here we have five atheists (Eudaimonist makes five) that claim Jesus of Nazareth is nothing more than an imaginary friend of Christians.....

Not precisely. I don't think that Jesus Christ is an imaginary friend in precisely the same way as children have imaginary friends. There are no doubt psychological differences.

Are all of you saying that Jesus of Nazareth was simply conjured up by the first Christians and was not actually a historical figure at all

While I lean slightly against the idea of an historical Jesus of Nazareth (e.g., this), that wasn't what I was saying at all.

or is it your view that the first Christians chose to project onto the historical figure Jesus of Nazareth who was simply a Galilean Jew, their conception of Messiah and make him their imaginary friend?

While I leave this possibility open, this also isn't what I was saying at all.

I was talking about Christians today, not making a statement about history.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Non sequitur]

Are all of you saying that Jesus of Nazareth was simply conjured up by the first Christians and was not actually a historical figure at all, or is it your view that the first Christians chose to project onto the historical figure Jesus of Nazareth who was simply a Galilean Jew, their conception of Messiah and make him their imaginary friend?

I don't think the historicity of the person called Jesus of Nazareth really plays any part.

You may have had a cape, when you were younger; it may have been red, it may have been silk, it may have had sparkily gold vertical lines and you may have believed that it made you fly.

It could have been red or maroon, it could have been silk or pima cotton, it could have had sparkily gold vertical lines or shiny yellow zig-zag lines...

... it could not make you fly.

 

[Elioenai26]

Not precisely. I don't think that Jesus Christ is an imaginary friend in precisely the same way as children have imaginary friends. There are no doubt psychological differences.



While I lean slightly against the idea of an historical Jesus of Nazareth (e.g., this), that wasn't what I was saying at all.



While I leave this possibility open, this also isn't what I was saying at all.

I was talking about Christians today, not making a statement about history.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I don't think the historicity of the person called Jesus of Nazareth really plays any part.

You may have had a cape, when you were younger; it may have been red, it may have been silk, it may have had sparkily gold vertical lines and you may have believed that it made you fly.

It could have been red or maroon, it could have been silk or pima cotton, it could have had sparkily gold vertical lines or shiny yellow zig-zag lines...

... it could not make you fly.

The two of you need to make your position clear.

Was Jesus a real person of history or not?

That is where we begin.

I claim He was.

He either was or was not.

If you claim He was not, then you have to have reasons for this. What are they?

And please do not say that outside the bible there is no evidence He existed. That is not a good reason, because it is patently false, and two, even if we did not have extra-biblical sources, the conclusion still does not follow.

 

[Non sequitur]

The two of you need to make your position clear.

Was Jesus a real person of history or not?

That is where we begin.

I claim He was.

He either was or was not.

If you claim He was not, then you have to have reasons for this. What are they?

And please do not say that outside the bible there is no evidence He existed. That is not a good reason, because it is patently false, and two, even if we did not have extra-biblical sources, the conclusion still does not follow.

I am saying it is irrelevant.

If it makes you feel better, you can go either was or was not.

 

[Elioenai26]

I am saying it is irrelevant.

If it makes you feel better, you can go either was or was not.

Of course it is relevant.

If Jesus existed and was a real person of history, then we have to deal with certain established historical events i.e. His crucifixion, the discovery of His empty tomb, post-mortem appearances of Jesus after His death. The origin and explanation of the formation and rise of the early church.

I claim He was not only a real person, but that He actually was crucified, buried, and rose from the dead.

I therefore, have ample justification for maintaining that Jesus of Nazareth the Christ is not simply an imaginary friend of mine, but rather the Son of God.

 

[Eudaimonist]

The two of you need to make your position clear.

Was Jesus a real person of history or not?

That is where we begin.

No, that's a different issue altogether. It's irrelevant for the current issue.


eudaimonia,

Mark