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Yesterday was Thursday.
I see you did not rule out being deceived, or self-deceived.
Whatever.
Done. Insufficient evidence.
No. I am not doing your homework for you.
I had not seen it used in association with failure.
And that was just today!
I think it suffices to prove the point that if one is unwilling to accept what someone is telling them, then no amount of evidence or proof will convince them. The father could present me with a DNA paternity test and if I did not want to accept it, I could just dismiss it as a fake. I could even say that the ones who performed the testing and printed the results were secretly working with the father and son in an effort to deceive me.
They could even perform it before my very eyes and I could simply dismiss it by saying the testing equipment had been previously rigged to produce a specified result.
People can be very imaginative and ingenious when it comes to explaining away things they do not want to accept.
All that is required is an imagination!
This is honestly one of the creepiest things I've ever read.The evidence God has given men that leaves them without excuse for denying He exists. You know what this evidence is because God has made it known to all men. Yes Davian, that means you too!
I think it suffices to prove the point that if one is unwilling to accept what someone is telling them, then no amount of evidence or proof will convince them. The father could present me with a DNA paternity test and if I did not want to accept it, I could just dismiss it as a fake. I could even say that the ones who performed the testing and printed the results were secretly working with the father and son in an effort to deceive me.
They could even perform it before my very eyes and I could simply dismiss it by saying the testing equipment had been previously rigged to produce a specified result.
People can be very imaginative and ingenious when it comes to explaining away things they do not want to accept.
All that is required is an imagination!
The doctrine of hell does not bother me because in the two-thousand and sixth year since the year of our Lord, I, by the will of God, had my eyes opened to see who I was as God saw me.
This is all swell, except several things.I at once saw myself as one beloved of God and at the same time, saw myself as one who was in active rebellion against Him. I, saw, by the will of God, that I was at once, a murderer, an adulterer, a sexually immoral whoremonger, a reviler, a drunkard, a drug abuser and drug seller, liar, undisciplined, ruthless, faithless, heartless, hater of good, hater of authority, selfish, egotistical, maniacal, lascivious, boaster, prideful, arrogant thief among other things.....
Then I daresay, God or no God you were rather credulous.This revelation of God pierced my soul and cut me to the quick, exposing me for all that was in my heart.
Oh dear me, hyperbole much?Outwardly, I was your typical young twenty year old. Inwardly, I was a ravenous man. Not unlike the demon possessed man in the land of the Gerasenes who cried aloud night after night and roamed through the tombs naked, bruising himself with stones, delirious with grief, hatred, sorrow, and loneliness.
-yawn-Like so many men and women who saw themselves as sinners when convicted of their inner sin sick condition after having had the light of God shine upon them, I knew I needed a physician. I knew I needed to be made well. I knew it was not a doctor that I needed however, for my sickness was not of the physical sort at all. My sickness came from within, in my heart. I cried out in the torment of my exposed soul which sought to hide from that radiance bright. But Christ was already there waiting and did not suffer me to wait a second. He was there, even before I cried out, waiting for me, with such unspeakable patience and love. He had been waiting for twenty long years. I did not have to run and find Him! I did not have to ascend up into the heavens to find Him there, nor did I have to descend into the depths of the earth to seek Him out there. He sought me out, and His seeking, caused me to seek Him.
See above.He had been standing at the door of my heart knocking for some time.... I had heard it clearly at first, years prior, when I was in church sitting with my mother. I was afraid, as most young children are. I did not really understand that sense, that urgent compulsion within my breast that made me almost stand up of its own accord and walk down the aisle. Even then I had some sense, however small it was, that I was in need of forgiving. That I had done some things that God was not pleased with. Things I would never tell anyone, not even my mother......And so Sundays came and Sundays went....I grew up and eventually that voice, that knocking grew dimmer and dimmer, until it was altogether silenced, drowned by the cacophony and bustle of teenage life.
No, you didn't.So my friend, when you ask me about hell, and why it does not bother me, that some people are going to ultimately be there for eternity, I can honestly say that I myself deserved it.
How arrogant.I am simply being honest. I also know that I am no different than any other person who has ever lived. If I need a Savior, everyone does.
Seriously?There is none righteous, no not one. If I had died in my sins, I would have had no one for my defense except myself, and I would have made a lousy lawyer indeed!
That the infinity of hell for finite crimes is unjust. That some of the things you label as "sin" (such as say, homosexuality, faithlessness, disobedience etc) are not actually sins. That you as God allowed me to exist with the disposition towards committing sin thus making you as God indirectly responsible for my state.For what could I say to Him who sees all and knows all?
Plenty. See above.What excuse could I bring to satisfy the Holy God who created me and showed me the way therein that I should have walked?
What a travesty of injustice. How does defending yourself confirm your sentence? You describe this trial as if it were a show trial being held in a banana republic with a corrupt hand-picked judiciary.If I had dared to defend myself in the presence of the Almighty then it would have only served to confirm my sentence of condemnation.
So much for a non-biased court, eh?I would have not had Jesus there by my side as my propitiation. He would have caused to pass before my eyes the hundreds of times the Holy Spirit was convicting me and pleading, begging me to repent and to turn from my sensual wickedness. And all the times I ignored that pleading.....He would have caused to pass before me the countless sins I committed, in thought, word, and deed....sins so innumerable that to endeavor to count them would itself take an eternity....
Au contrare, I can think of no better day.When a person stands before God on judgment day, oh that dreadful day for the unrighteous, faithless, and wicked...that day will not be a day for excuses.
A good response would be asking how God defines "living wickedly". I suspect if he is as you say then God would affirm that living wickedly is simply being imperfect. This is something that we can't help given that we are born and will die imperfect by God's choice. To insist that we live to impossible standards is unjust. We could never meet such requirements. The trial you speak of between a non-believer and God is a farce. The solution you propose to avoid it does nothing for our "sinful" impulses God so rail against but merely provides an opt-out and divine pardon. This is not justice.If you think about it....how could it be? What excuse could a wicked man give God for living wickedly that would suffice???
We can affirm through reason that it is wrong to cheat on your partner. No God required. At any rate, such an action does not command a place in eternal torment as punishment. The punishment does not fit the crime. In fact, that someone would cheat on their wife or husband has absolutely nothing to do with God.Lord Lord, I did not know it was wrong to cheat on my wife!
It isn't. The idea of thought-crime is wrong and carries all kinds of unsavoury implications.Lord, I did not know that it was evil to lust after women in my heart and harbor all sorts of vile thoughts in my mind!!!
Racism can be seen to be wrong trivially and without appeal to God. At any rate, such an action does not command a place in eternal torment as punishment.Lord, I did not know it was wrong to hate others because of the color of their skin!!!
No, but better non-grovelling arguments will. Or they should be.Will these excuses satisfy the Holy requirement of a righteous God?
Speak for yourself, ser.The sad part is that in seeking to justify himself, the man would be adding one more sin to the list.....that of lying!
Your Strawman Non-believer is yours and yours alone. Perhaps you would respond in such a way. I would not.For not only did the man know that all of the above were wrong, but is seeking to justify this wrong!
Yes, this is a show trial.And then of course, Christ would allow to play before the man, every instance of the man's life that the gospel had been proclaimed in his hearing and it entering in one ear and out the other, never making its way to his heart, and the man would be reduced to tears and shame....
Yes, I know.Eternity is not to be seen as a million years or a billion years or even a trillion years....Eternity is the very absence of time itself....There is no measure of passing time there....
Of course, this is yet another smear on non-believer and yet you don't know it.And so, for eternity, the man is consumed....consumed by his own hatred, his own malice, his own pride....this consuming is like a fire that never goes out....for there is no one there to put it out....each person there is so self-centered, so self-sufficient, that they would never even think about anyone but themselves....this pride....this fuel which feeds the flames that ascend forever and ever come from the very soul of the one it consumes....perpetually...eternally.
Perhaps the solution is to just remove Hell. It is causing all kinds of injustice that appear to transcend its realm and infect moral thinking here on earth.Hell is a horrific place.....more horrific than anyone can possibly imagine....so horrific that Christ warned that if our eyes cause us to sin that we should pluck them out, that if our hand causes us to sin that we should cut it off....why? It is far better to enter into life maimed, than to be cast into the hell of fire whole.....
"Hell is real because God is real" does not follow.Hell is real because God is real. If it had not been for Christ no one would have hope. Those, however, who are well, have no need of a physician, but they that are sick.
...at least some evidence was presented.I think it suffices to prove the point that if one is unwilling to accept what someone is telling them, then no amount of evidence or proof will convince them.
You are presuming that everyone here is like you.The father could present me with a DNA paternity test and if I did not want to accept it, I could just dismiss it as a fake. I could even say that the ones who performed the testing and printed the results were secretly working with the father and son in an effort to deceive me.
They could even perform it before my very eyes and I could simply dismiss it by saying the testing equipment had been previously rigged to produce a specified result.
People can be very imaginative and ingenious when it comes to explaining away things they do not want to accept.
All that is required is an imagination!
...at least some evidence was presented.
You are presuming that everyone here is like you.
(I recall you once asking every single poster here "Do you want God to exist...?", implying that wishful thinking is a prerequisite for becoming a believer.)
In any case, pointing out that some people may be determined to deny even the best evidence doesn´t seem to be a good argument for refusing to present your evidence, in the first place. It´s blaming the audience before you have even started.
No, when there is solid evidence very few people may try to "explain it away" but they don´t succeed. That´s the very difference between evidence and assumption, and the very difference between evaluating evidence and acting purely upon wishful thinking.With all respect, I said what I said simply to demonstrate as everyone knows, that if one is unwilling to accept what someone is saying, then the unwilling person can explain away every piece of evidence the person is giving them.
You make it sound like the willingness or unwillingness to believe something were the only factor in evaluating evidence.Christ supplied plenty of evidence that He was who He said He was to those who were willing to believe quatona. To those who are unwilling, they will not be convinced.
You clearly have no problem explaining away all the evidence that people of other religions have for their own faiths. That's all we're doing with yours. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we're biased.With all respect, I said what I said simply to demonstrate as everyone knows, that if one is unwilling to accept what someone is saying, then the unwilling person can explain away every piece of evidence the person is giving them.
You clearly have no problem explaining away all the evidence that people of other religions have for their own faiths. That's all we're doing with yours. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we're biased.
It just means you are wrong, that's all.
I know Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Plain and simple. That means that everyone who says He is not is wrong.
Yet you refuse to show us how you came by this knowledge.
I told Skavau in my post number seven seven two.
How futile.It just means you are wrong, that's all.
I know Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Plain and simple. That means that everyone who says He is not is wrong.
That reads to me as a personal testimony, but remember that you want others to believe as you do. Presumably, reading a personal testimony from a Hindu is not going to give you a reason to convert to Hinduism, regardless of how sincere the testimony happens to be. You could, of course, simply declare that the experience of the divine is transformative and that no reason could ever be given for no reason would ever be sufficient. That too is a legitimate response, but it involves recognition of the fact that you believe by faith and not by reason. Such an admission would cast doubt on the value of your efforts here, which are devoted to conceiving of reasons to believe in your deity.
How futile.
Indeed so even if you're actually correct.
How does just making this declaration demonstrate anything?
Well, you demonstrating it would be one option. Someone else could demonstrate it or we could discover it through some other means.You two are under the impression that I have to demonstrate to you that God exists in order for you to acknowledge His existence.
The above is literally white noise to me. I can't go to something I don't believe exists. That would require making myself believe that something exists.No one demonstrated His existence to me. I went to God in humility and brokenness of spirit and asked Him to forgive me of my sins.
So when you "went to God in humility" you already believed in him. How did you believe in God prior to that?Those that come to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.
If you're suggesting I have no desire in knowing God, you're right.God understands we may have questions....all of us do. But one's desire for something is measured by what one is willing to sacrifice in order to obtain their desire.
Then the relevant question is why did you believe he existed?No one had to give me evidence or proof for me to go to God. I believed He existed and asked Him if He heard me and if He cared to hear my cry. He did.
*Shrug*A child can pray to God. A peasant can pray to God. Clever arguments and proofs do not lead one to repentance anyway.
If you're suggesting I have no desire in knowing God, you're right.
I don't see how it would be possible for someone to acknowledge something they are not convinced of. I really couldn't acknowledge that 1+1=4 because I haven't been presented sufficient evidence to embrace that idea and I also have numerous reasons to reject that it's accurate.You two are under the impression that I have to demonstrate to you that God exists in order for you to acknowledge His existence.
I know Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Plain and simple. That means that everyone who says He is not is wrong.
That reads to me as a personal testimony, but remember that you want others to believe as you do. Presumably, reading a personal testimony from a Hindu is not going to give you a reason to convert to Hinduism, regardless of how sincere the testimony happens to be. You could, of course, simply declare that the experience of the divine is transformative and that no reason could ever be given for no reason would ever be sufficient. That too is a legitimate response, but it involves recognition of the fact that you believe by faith and not by reason. Such an admission would cast doubt on the value of your efforts here, which are devoted to conceiving of reasons to believe in your deity.
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