The Achilles Heel of Atheism

[Gadarene]

Why talk about it if you do not even believe in Christianity?

You would first need to accept that God exists and that He has revealed Himself in the person of His Son Jesus of Nazareth.

Yes, presumably it would involve claims such as these. I've no idea why my current non-acceptance of them is an excuse for evading answering the question this much.

I think you know perfectly well why I maintain that there is ultimate meaning in Christianity.

Well, apparently not, since you said that my statements didn't match your stance. Which is why I'm asking, but for some reason, yet again, you are frantically trying to avoid answering.

And I'm not about to consult the Bible - getting objective readings from that is evidently not that viable an approach. Presenting your personal interpretation of the Bible, however, is fine.

 

[Elioenai26]

According to whom? Some atheists might agree with this, some might not. There is nothing inherent in atheism that discredits ultimate meaning. It is entirely possible that some atheists, Buddhists for example, who do not believe in gods but feel that there is an ultimate meaning.

Let me rephrase it for you.

Under a metaphysically naturalistic view of reality, there is no ultimate meaning.

When I use the term atheism, I am not referring to Buddhism.

I think the distinction should be made and I took it to be self-evident. I see it was not so self-evident.

 

[Elioenai26]

Yes, presumably it would involve claims such as these. I've no idea why my current non-acceptance of them is an excuse for evading answering the question this much.

I do not believe you are sincere and therefore will not spend my time on it.

If you would like to debate me, that is fine.

Well, apparently not, since you said that my statements didn't match your stance. Which is why I'm asking, but for some reason, yet again, you are frantically trying to avoid answering.

You asked me the following:

I want you to justify the idea that only objective meaning can make life meaningful, and why your god's definition of meaning is necessarily objective meaning.

And I told you that is not my position.

And I'm not about to consult the Bible - getting objective readings from that is evidently not that viable an approach. Presenting your personal interpretation of the Bible, however, is fine.

I will refrain to do so, and you will charge me with failure to substantiate my views to which I will respond by saying you have failed to consult the Bible.

 

[lupusFati]

Eli, when you're ready to debate Gadarene, I'm sure you'll both finally get somewhere. Until then, I must declare that Gadarene has the more open mind of the two of you.

 

[Elioenai26]

Eli, when you're ready to debate Gadarene, I'm sure you'll both finally get somewhere. Until then, I must declare that Gadarene has the more open mind of the two of you.

Open minds are like open mouths, they are meant to be closed upon something solid.

I have been ready and have asked everyone here ad nauseaum to debate me. The only one who will is Paradoxum.

 

[Gadarene]

I do not believe you are sincere and therefore will not spend my time on it.

Right. The guy trying to get you to clarify your stances is insincere, the guy running away from clarifying is not. Of course.

Elioenai, if someone gave you an enema, they'd fit you in a matchbox.

If you would like to debate me, that is fine.

Once more, seeing as this apparently didn't sink in the first time - why in the world would I debate someone who has evaded answering one question for the better part of several hours and then accuses other people of disingenuity?

Why in the world would I debate someone with a track record of being dishonest?

You asked me the following:

And I told you that is not my position.

Jeepers, EVENTUALLY, yes.

And then I asked you to clarify your stance and you went right back to evading.

I will refrain to do so, and you will charge me with failure to substantiate my views to which I will respond by saying you have failed to consult the Bible.

Already addressed this. I'm not going to assume further what you may or may not have subjectively concluded from the Bible. To avoid further confusion I, er, asked you to clarify your stance. Which is apparently anathema to you.

 

[bhsmte]

There is ultimate meaning in Christianity.

Serious question.

What is christianity anymore? It has morphed into so many different forms, loosened requirement beliefs to be considered a christian, I can't keep up.

You have Billy Graham and Joel Osteen stating you don't need to go through Jesus to make it to heaven and the bible clearly disagrees with this.

 

[Elioenai26]

Right. The guy trying to get you to clarify your stances is insincere, the guy running away from clarifying is not. Of course.

Elioenai, if someone gave you an enema, they'd fit you in a matchbox.



Once more, seeing as this apparently didn't sink in the first time - why in the world would I debate someone who has evaded answering one question for the better part of several hours and then accuses other people of disingenuity?

Why in the world would I debate someone with a track record of being dishonest?



Jeepers, EVENTUALLY, yes.

And then I asked you to clarify your stance and you went right back to evading.



Already addressed this. I'm not going to assume further what you may or may not have subjectively concluded from the Bible. To avoid further confusion I, er, asked you to clarify your stance. Which is apparently anathema to you.

I will know you are serious when you agree to a debate.

Until then, I wish you well.

 

[Elioenai26]

Serious question.

What is christianity anymore? It has morphed into so many different forms, loosened requirement beliefs to be considered a christian, I can't keep up.

You have Billy Graham and Joel Osteen stating you don't need to go through Jesus to make it to heaven and the bible clearly disagrees with this.

Billy Graham said that?

Reference please?

 

[bhsmte]

Billy Graham said that?

Reference please?

Youtube video of Graham stating Jesus is not the only way to heaven, look it up. Joel Osteen has one as well.

 

[Elioenai26]

Youtube video of Graham stating Jesus is not the only way to heaven, look it up. Joel Osteen has one as well.

Post the link of the video.

 

[Aeroflotte]

Non-atheists can't possibly know the weaknesses of atheism without having the inside knowledge that only an atheist would know. The only thing a non-atheist can do is point out the incompatibility between atheism and their belief.

 

[bhsmte]

Post the link of the video.

How do you do that?

 

[bhsmte]

Post the link of the video.

Billy Graham Says Jesus Christ is Not the Only Way - YouTube

 

[bhsmte]

Post the link of the video.

joel osteen jesus is not the only way - YouTube

 

[Elioenai26]

joel osteen jesus is not the only way - YouTube

I said post a link to the Graham video, you know...the one where you claim he says Jesus is not the only way to heaven....

I could care less about Joel Osteen to be honest.

Oh nm, I see it....

Now would you like to point to the time in which he says that?

 

[bhsmte]

I said post a link to the Graham video, you know...the one where you claim he says Jesus is not the only way to heaven....

I could care less about Joel Osteen to be honest.

Oh nm, I see it....

Now would you like to point to the time in which he says that?

Not sure on exact time.

 

[Elioenai26]

Not sure on exact time.

I watched the video on Graham and it is a shame to say the least. It was obviously made by a person who desired to smear him.

Graham never states that there are other ways to God other than Jesus. He does state that God saves people all over the world according to the light of knowledge and revelation that they have even if they have never personally heard the gospel preached to them. And this is not controversial, this is the traditional Christian view of how God reaches those not exposed to the gospel personally.

 

[lupusFati]

I watched the video on Graham and it is a shame to say the least. It was obviously made by a person who desired to smear him.

Graham never states that there are other ways to God other than Jesus. He does state that God saves people all over the world according to the light of knowledge and revelation that they have even if they have never personally heard the gospel preached to them. And this is not controversial, this is the traditional Christian view of how God reaches those not exposed to the gospel personally.

Well it's news to me, and I was raised in Christian theology my entire life.

 

[bhsmte]

I watched the video on Graham and it is a shame to say the least. It was obviously made by a person who desired to smear him.

Graham never states that there are other ways to God other than Jesus. He does state that God saves people all over the world according to the light of knowledge and revelation that they have even if they have never personally heard the gospel preached to them. And this is not controversial, this is the traditional Christian view of how God reaches those not exposed to the gospel personally.

He clearly states the people who don't even know christ will be saved if they are good people, there is no way around that.

There are numerous videos of Graham on youtube talking about other topics; saying homosexuality is ok, etc. etc.

He is on record for a lot of things that would likely surprise many christians. This is why I asked the question; what is a christian? What do they have to believe in to be considered a christian, because there are literally hundreds of variances of what this is.