The absurdity of life without God

[2PhiloVoid]

Yeah? What contribution are we talking about?

The contribution that enables a person to see the coherence and relevance of the Christian faith ... so, this means that without God's help in the matter, I could earn ten PhD's and talk till I'm blue in the face about the "Truth of Jesus," and it wouldn't necessarily rock any atheist's world----even if I 'was' dead on correct.

Similarly, it can also go the opposite direction. God can confuse a person if that person stubbornly chooses to remain in abject rebellion ... God just kind of "hands that person over ..."

 

[Ana the Ist]

The contribution that enables a person to see the coherence and relevance of the Christian faith ... so, this means that without God's help in the matter, I could earn ten PhD's and talk till I'm blue in the face about the "Truth of Jesus," and it wouldn't necessarily rock any atheist's world----even if I 'was' dead on correct.

Similarly, it can also go the opposite direction. God can confuse a person if that person stubbornly chooses to remain in abject rebellion ... God just kind of "hands that person over ..."

Gotcha...

And while it's nice that's what you believe, I was strictly speaking about what we can know...and we know man imbues things with meaning.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Gotcha...

And while it's nice that's what you believe, I was strictly speaking about what we can know...and we know man imbues things with meaning.

Well sure. I agree with that, as you might see in some of my more immediate posts above in this thread ...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'll give him time, though I don't quite raise my hopes when I see "biblical epistemology" in the phrasing...

... well, even if you don't simply jump for joy at the sound of the phrasing, just realize that it isn't something I pulled out of my hind-end. It really is a field within Christian philosophy and Hermeneutical Study.

Just an extra FYI.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Well sure. I agree with that, as you might see in some of my more immediate posts above in this thread ...

Sorry if I missed it...I think I got up to maybe page 2 on this thread.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sorry if I missed it...I think I got up to maybe page 2 on this thread.

No problem.

 

[Ana the Ist]

... well, even if you don't simply jump for joy at the sound of the phrasing, just realize that it isn't something I pulled out of my hind-end. It really is a field within Christian philosophy and Hermeneutical Study.

Just an extra FYI.

Oh, I've heard it before...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Oh, I've heard it before...

...yeah, probably from me over in the apologetics section. Anyway. I concur that anyone can 'create' meaning of some sort. I don't think that should be a big issue, and I know that some Christians kind of make a big issue of it.

But then again, if there isn't a Divine Power or Force of any kind, then I don't have much of any reason not to see that we're all just a bunch of tiny organisms that think they're something while crawling over a big turd that flies through space, around a big ball of hot gas. If that is all we are, it doesn't sound all that meaningful really. Sure, we can have a family and some friends and try to find some meaning there, but then we can also just say, "Hey, honey!!! Hey, kids!!! Gather around, I've got something important and very enlightening to tell you. You'll love it!!!"

 

[Rajni]

The maker of the vid says, life is absurd without God.
I say, without God there would be no life.

Well that's just it. I think you nailed it.

There is no "without God". He is everywhere. In Him we live and
move and have our being, etc.

That's why I never understood Christians claiming God has been
"taken out of schools" and the like. We don't dictate God's location.
As an omnipresent being, He floods every nook, cranny, and atom of
the entire universe and beyond. That includes public schools.

"Without God"? Nah, not a chance. •‿•

-

 

[Silmarien]

Well that's just it. I think you nailed it.

There is no "without God". He is everywhere. In Him we live and
move and have our being, etc.

That's why I never understood Christians claiming God has been
"taken out of schools" and the like. We don't dictate God's location.
As an omnipresent being, He floods every nook, cranny, and atom of
the entire universe and beyond. That includes public schools.

"Without God"? Nah, not a chance. •‿•

-

I don't understand the fight over public education either.

If you want to keep your children from becoming secular, maybe you should figure out how to approach religious education in the churches better? The fact that Christianity (and theism more generally) actually is an intellectually robust option should not be such a well kept secret.

 

[bhsmte]

...yeah, probably from me over in the apologetics section. Anyway. I concur that anyone can 'create' meaning of some sort. I don't think that should be a big issue, and I know that some Christians kind of make a big issue of it.

But then again, if there isn't a Divine Power or Force of any kind, then I don't have much of any reason not to see that we're all just a bunch of tiny organisms that think they're something while crawling over a big turd that flies through space, around a big ball of hot gas. If that is all we are, it doesn't sound all that meaningful really. Sure, we can have a family and some friends and try to find some meaning there, but then we can also just say, "Hey, honey!!! Hey, kids!!! Gather around, I've got something important and very enlightening to tell you. You'll love it!!!"

I get it. Not having some divine power or force is simply scary to some people and hence, the development of Gods and various religions.

If certain things are not known, it creates discomfort and more in some than others.

 

[bhsmte]

I don't understand the fight over public education either.

If you want to keep your children from becoming secular, maybe you should figure out how to approach religious education in the churches better? The fact that Christianity (and theism more generally) actually is an intellectually robust option should not be such a well kept secret.

Who is keeping this secret?

 

[cloudyday2]

I'll give him time, though I don't quite raise my hopes when I see "biblical epistemology" in the phrasing...

I suppose I should know what "epistemology" means after all this time at CF, but I keep looking it up and then promptly forgetting again - LOL.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I get it. Not having some divine power or force is simply scary to some people and hence, the development of Gods and various religions.

If certain things are not known, it creates discomfort and more in some than others.

From one angle, not having the assurance of God's existence can be scary, but that isn't really what I was getting at in my comments above. What I mean is that, if we aren't much more than a scoop of poop, then when I say, "I love you!," I'm just blowing ... gas. That's all it is, really.

 

[Silmarien]

Who is keeping this secret?

Christianity, through complete incompetence.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Christianity, through complete incompetence.

There's that, yes, and it also might be that all of this gets obscured because there's a "devil in the details."

 

[Chesterton]

Something just came to me. We can only have meaning to people around us. We cannot have meaning to ourselves. If I die then I no longer exist and it doesn't matter to me, but it matters to other people. So the meaning of my life is defined by people around me. A truly isolated person's life has no meaning.

EDIT: That's why every atheist needs a cat.

Again, it seems you're equating emotion with meaning. Trouble is, atheists around here have always told me that emotions, including love, aren't what we think they are; they're only mindless chemistry and physics "creating" hardwired naturally selected responses to aid the goal of propagation. (And in the same breath, they'll tell you that evolution has no goal - another aspect of the absurdity.) So again, love is meaningless apart from the goal/non-goal of propagation.

 

[Chesterton]

I've never seen Hitler petting a cat though. Oops I found this:

 

[ImAllLikeOkWaitWat]

My question to all here who have disagreed with me is simple, can there be ultimate eternal meaning without God? Can there be meaning if we all end up dying and entering a lifeless unconscious state or whatever atheists believer happens when we die? How can our lives matter if no matter what we do, we all end up dead forever. You can acheive the greatest things in life, but as soon as you die it was all for nought because you and your species are all dead.

Is this evidence for God? No but it surely at least proves God is the only way for eternal meaning and significance. Show me eternal significance without God and i'll retract my view here. The only thing craig is trying to do is give you the bits and pieces of information that can perhaps lead to a change of heart about God. The hard part is getting people to go from atheism to theism, once they are at theism, then comes evidence for Jesus Christ and his resurrection etc come in but none of that matters if someone doesn't believe in at least a general God.

 

[bhsmte]

Christianity, through complete incompetence.

Can you expand on this incompetence?