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Have you ever heard of the second death?A fair question. Here is my answer:
The legal consequences of sin: death...but just death. God told Adam and Eve they would die if they ate of the wrong tree, and so they did. Later, God told other people (I remember Abimelech in that regard) they were as good as dead for having sinned. In no case that I know of did God warn them of anything else...like Hell. Now why would a loving, honest and holy God hold back that information...if Hell existed? Be aware that Hell is never mentioned as part of the Creation, and let that sink in. It is also never mentioned as a punishment in the Law that God gave to Moses, so let that sink in too.
So all through the OT, death reigns. Lots of people die. Is there a solution? As Abner asked, "Shall the sword devour for ever?" I noted that every instance of "Hell" in the OT is better rendered as "Sheol," and half the time is translated honestly as "the grave" or "the pit." But I digress...it's not easy to pass up a chance to get a dig in at Hell.
Then Jesus the Christ arrives. John the Baptist calls Him the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world. Did he lie? Remember that he was full of the Spirit. Now consider:
Jesus either took away the sin or the world...or He didn't. Faith demands that He did.
Jesus, as part of the Godhead, was witness and participant to what Job was told: "Is anything too difficult for Me?" It's God, so the answer must be "NO."
Therefore I must conclude that taking away the sin of the world is not too difficult for Jesus.
Problem: When Jesus was alive, when He died to make the taking away possible, and down to the present day, sin is still in existence. So...for Jesus to NOT FAIL, He must finish the work of taking away...after the resurrection.
He tried to tell us. He gave us the parable of the lost sheep. He fed multitudes on two occasions, and told His disciples to gather up the crumbs, which amounted to more than He started with. He even asked His Father to forgive those who were killing Him. Do I need to say more?
If anyone remains in their sins, Jesus has failed.
If anyone, then remains dead, Jesus has failed.
If anyone goes to Hell (if Hell exists), Jesus has failed.
If anyone is forever excluded from the Kingdom, Jesus has failed.
But no! Nothing is too difficult for Jesus, and being the Savior of the World, the One Who takes away the sin of the world, and the One who is both willing and able, then:
everyone's sin will be dealt with and forgiven - but it won't be pleasant for the wicked
no one will remain dead and/or in Hell
no one will be forever excluded from the Kingdom.
That is so sad. The creator defeated by his own creation. (sigh) Tragic.God didn't write a bad ending for Himself. He wrote the ending man prepared for himself.
So true!If anyone remains in their sins, Jesus has failed.
If anyone, then remains dead, Jesus has failed.
If anyone goes to Hell (if Hell exists), Jesus has failed.
If anyone is forever excluded from the Kingdom, Jesus has failed.
Who is Paul speaking to here? Could it be the Corinthian Church who were saved.1 Corinthians 15:50-55
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
Have you ever heard of the second death?
Rev. 20:14
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death"
The first death is the physical death, the second is the spiritual death.
Read Rev. 20, there's much more detail.
You seem to be so in love with the status quo that you can't see what is right in front of you.Who is Paul speaking to here? Could it be the Corinthian Church who were saved.
How does this apply to all the world? It only applies to the saved. Death is swallowed up in victory for the redeemed.
I'm sorry to report that I will be heading to bed soon.Keep 'em coming Steven, I have nothing to do tonight but talking to you my friend.
I'm trying to help you Steven. Paul is only speaking of the redeemed saints.You seem to be so in love with the status quo that you can't see what is right in front of you.
1) "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" = we will have to die to get there.
2) "We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed" = the "sleep" of death will be interrupted by a BIG change.
3) "the dead will be raised imperishable" Who? Only the saved, or everyone?
4) “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” How can this be if any are lost?
1 Corinthians 15:50-55
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
He is speaking TO the Corinthian church ABOUT the mystery of death for ALL humankind.I'm trying to help you Steven. Paul is only speaking of the redeemed saints.
vs. 57 But thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Do you see? The victory is through Christ for those who believe in Him.
OK Steven, you're right. You have won the conversation, I'll not bother you anymore.He is speaking TO the Corinthian church ABOUT the mystery of death for ALL humankind.
Your bias is clouding your perception of what is being plainly stated.
1 Corinthians 15:50-55
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
Thank you, but I didn't ask for help. I'm asking you to look beyond your preconceived notions and see what the Bible says.I'm trying to help you Steven.
I didn't say you are bothering me. And I am not interested in "winning" a conversation.OK Steven, you're right. You have won the conversation, I'll not bother you anymore.
When Moses wrote the Ten Commandments, was hePaul is only speaking of the redeemed saints.
ALL MEN COMMITTED TO CHRIST'S CARE
4. God hath given all things to Christ, as the moral Ruler of the world.
"Ask of me, and I will give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession." Psalms 2:8
"The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand." John 3:35 "
All things," here, means all intelligent beings. So say the best commentators. (The word things is in italics in the KJV which means it is not in the Greek. We are not talking about trees here.)
From:
100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
by Thomas Whittemore
See introductory statement in post #14 of this topic. Thanks.
read:100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
"I declare unto you, brothers and sisters..." Who are Paul's brothers and sisters? Does it include those who reject Christ?When Moses wrote the Ten Commandments, was he
only speaking to the Israelites alive at that time? (yes)
Did it have broader application? (yes)
1 Corinthians 15:50-55
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
2Thes. 1:8-9Thank you, I've read all of Revelation. I've read all the rest of the Bible too. I note that the wicked are tossed into the LoF AFTER Death and Hell. So, logically, I see the Second Death as not applying to them. It does apply to Death and Hell, so I see the Second Death as the death of Death and Hell (better rendered as "the grave"). The Spirit in Man is the Spirit of Life, given by God, and it is undoubtedly one of the Seven Spirits of God. That Spirit never dies, so "spiritual death" is an oxymoron. That takes us back to this: if anyone remains dead, Jesus is a failure, but He never fails.
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