The 2 greatest commandments

[YahuahSaves]

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?”

37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

I have been pondering these questions lately, what does it mean to love God? What does it mean to love others "as ourselves", and what does "love thy enemies" really mean?

I could hardly think of "loving myself", in fact, the opposite has been true of me for most of my life, so can a person who does not "love" themselves, truly love others? The mainstream culture would have us believe we can't. We must "love ourselves first", before we can truly love another....

But then I get to thinking about how Jesus loved people while on earth and how he wants us to love others in the same way. Even in loving our enemies, Jesus wants us to behave differently than sinners, even though many people struggle with the concepts found in Luke 6:27-36 there is also the interesting passage in Proverbs 25:21-22 which says:

21 If your enemies are hungry, give them food to eat.
If they are thirsty, give them water to drink.
22 You will heap burning coals of shame on their heads,
and the Lord will reward you.

This should be encouraging, shouldn't it?

Back to my theory: I think we "love" ourselves because we naturally take care of our own needs, and I think we are meant to love other people in the same way. It is not an emotion, it's an action. Jesus didn't just go around loving on everyone, giving them bearhugs - he did better than that - he helped them and he healed them.

So, what is the greatest commandment then?
“‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind."

If love is a doing word, perhaps loving God means obeying his will ( check) but isn't it interesting that the way Jesus describes that we have to love God is in a much greater way than we are to love each other? They're "equally important", but God is first, right? Do you think we humans have those commandments in reverse when we look at the reality of our relationship with God?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?”

37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

I have been pondering these questions lately, what does it mean to love God? What does it mean to love others "as ourselves", and what does "love thy enemies" really mean?

I could hardly think of "loving myself", in fact, the opposite has been true of me for most of my life, so can a person who does not "love" themselves, truly love others? The mainstream culture would have us believe we can't. We must "love ourselves first", before we can truly love another....

But then I get to thinking about how Jesus loved people while on earth and how he wants us to love others in the same way. Even in loving our enemies, Jesus wants us to behave differently than sinners, even though many people struggle with the concepts found in Luke 6:27-36 there is also the interesting passage in Proverbs 25:21-22 which says:

21 If your enemies are hungry, give them food to eat.
If they are thirsty, give them water to drink.
22 You will heap burning coals of shame on their heads,
and the Lord will reward you.

This should be encouraging, shouldn't it?

Back to my theory: I think we "love" ourselves because we naturally take care of our own needs, and I think we are meant to love other people in the same way. It is not an emotion, it's an action. Jesus didn't just go around loving on everyone, giving them bearhugs - he did better than that - he helped them and he healed them.

So, what is the greatest commandment then?
“‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind."

If love is a doing word, perhaps loving God means obeying his will ( check) but isn't it interesting that the way Jesus describes that we have to love God is in a much greater way than we are to love each other? They're "equally important", but God is first, right? Do you think we humans have those commandments in reverse when we look at the reality of our relationship with God?

We love Him first because without Him there is nothing. He is THE Creator. We love our neighbor because he was also, as we all were, made in His image....

 

[YahuahSaves]

We love Him first because without Him there is nothing. He is THE Creator. We love our neighbor because he was also, as we all were, made in His image....

Thanks... what about the question I posed at the end? What's your take on it?

 

[Tolworth John]

what does it mean to love God?

Great question.

Love is far more than a fuzzy emotion, as you say it means doing things, wheher that is giving to beggers or giving both time and cash to charities.

Your last question.
I think often we assume that loving God is just a warm fuzzy feeling and leave out the hard part of actually doing 'good' works that help people.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I think often we assume that loving God is just a warm fuzzy feeling and leave out the hard part of actually doing 'good' works that help people.

Doing "good works that help people" is part of "loving thy neighbour". You may say that loving your neighbour is part of loving God, but that can't be all - otherwise Jesus could've just said "love your neighbour", period. Loving God seems to exceed helping people and doing 'good' works. Don't you think?

 

[Soyeong]

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?”

37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

I have been pondering these questions lately, what does it mean to love God? What does it mean to love others "as ourselves", and what does "love thy enemies" really mean?

I could hardly think of "loving myself", in fact, the opposite has been true of me for most of my life, so can a person who does not "love" themselves, truly love others? The mainstream culture would have us believe we can't. We must "love ourselves first", before we can truly love another....

But then I get to thinking about how Jesus loved people while on earth and how he wants us to love others in the same way. Even in loving our enemies, Jesus wants us to behave differently than sinners, even though many people struggle with the concepts found in Luke 6:27-36 there is also the interesting passage in Proverbs 25:21-22 which says:

21 If your enemies are hungry, give them food to eat.
If they are thirsty, give them water to drink.
22 You will heap burning coals of shame on their heads,
and the Lord will reward you.

This should be encouraging, shouldn't it?

Back to my theory: I think we "love" ourselves because we naturally take care of our own needs, and I think we are meant to love other people in the same way. It is not an emotion, it's an action. Jesus didn't just go around loving on everyone, giving them bearhugs - he did better than that - he helped them and he healed them.

So, what is the greatest commandment then?
“‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind."

If love is a doing word, perhaps loving God means obeying his will ( check) but isn't it interesting that the way Jesus describes that we have to love God is in a much greater way than we are to love each other? They're "equally important", but God is first, right? Do you think we humans have those commandments in reverse when we look at the reality of our relationship with God?

When we express an aspects of God's nature through our obedience to His law we are expressing our love for that aspect of who God is, which is why there are many verses in both the OT and the NT that connect our love for God with our obedience to His commandments. So everything that God chose to command was specifically commanded for the purpose of teaching us how to love different aspects of His nature. For example, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, so by following God's instructions for how to have a holy conduct as He is holy, we are expressing our love for God's holiness, which is why they are included as part of how to obey the greatest two commandments. What God was instructing the Israelites to do by loving Him with all of their heart, soul, and mind should not mean something different than what we are being instructed to do.

Loving our enemies is in accordance with verses like Exodus 23:4-5, Deuteronomy 23:7, Proverbs 24:17-18, and Proverbs 25:21-22, so Jesus was not teaching something that was brand new.

 

[Tolworth John]

Doing "good works that help people" is part of "loving thy neighbour". You may say that loving your neighbour is part of loving God, but that can't be all - otherwise Jesus could've just said "love your neighbour", period. Loving God seems to exceed helping people and doing 'good' works. Don't you think?

But how often do Christians do 'good' towards their neighbour?
Often we and our non christian neighbours are respectable, polite, friendly folk. Who don't need anything!
Do we deliberatly step over those boundaries and talk to them about Jesus?

What about our giving. Do we really give generously to the many deserving causes?

Christians were known by how they loved, are we known for it?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?”

37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.”

I have been pondering these questions lately, what does it mean to love God? What does it mean to love others "as ourselves", and what does "love thy enemies" really mean?

I could hardly think of "loving myself", in fact, the opposite has been true of me for most of my life, so can a person who does not "love" themselves, truly love others? The mainstream culture would have us believe we can't. We must "love ourselves first", before we can truly love another....

But then I get to thinking about how Jesus loved people while on earth and how he wants us to love others in the same way. Even in loving our enemies, Jesus wants us to behave differently than sinners, even though many people struggle with the concepts found in Luke 6:27-36 there is also the interesting passage in Proverbs 25:21-22 which says:

21 If your enemies are hungry, give them food to eat.
If they are thirsty, give them water to drink.
22 You will heap burning coals of shame on their heads,
and the Lord will reward you.

This should be encouraging, shouldn't it?

Back to my theory: I think we "love" ourselves because we naturally take care of our own needs, and I think we are meant to love other people in the same way. It is not an emotion, it's an action. Jesus didn't just go around loving on everyone, giving them bearhugs - he did better than that - he helped them and he healed them.

So, what is the greatest commandment then?
“‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind."

If love is a doing word, perhaps loving God means obeying his will ( check) but isn't it interesting that the way Jesus describes that we have to love God is in a much greater way than we are to love each other? They're "equally important", but God is first, right? Do you think we humans have those commandments in reverse when we look at the reality of our relationship with God?

I think there are a couple ways to look at what the Bible means by love.

The New Covenant IS the ultimate expression of God's love for His people, and throughout the Bible we have this theme of God "loving" people by making covenant with them, and "hating" by excluding them from any covenant.

Everything we do as Christians within the body of Christ is to be a reflection of that covenantal relationship we have through Christ, WITH Christ as our head. The covenant of marriage, for instance, is to be a reflection of our covenant with Christ etc.

Everything we do should be a reflection of our relationship with Christ.

God provided us with all we needed, even when we were His enemy. God provided us the path to salvation, when we hated HIM. (So on and so forth)

Our relationship with others, enemies too, is to reflect that in whatever manner God has enabled us to do so.

It doesn't mean giving people that which we don't have (no robbing Peter to help Paul out), it doesn't EVER mean we give people everything they think they want (God didn't do that for us! He simply gave us what we needed) and it certainly doesn't mean going against God's law or promoting anything ungodly...

But it does mean we have a certain responsibility to those enemies who come to us in actual need, to see if we might be equipped in some way to help them fulfill those needs in the best, and most God fearing manner possible.

But here's the thing - if we don't first love God - if we aren't in any covenant relationship - and if that Covenant isn't OUR first and main priority, if not our only real priority, then we are 100% unable to be that reflection of Christ's love to anyone, let alone our enemies.

It's the difference between doing something in our flesh (will fail every time!) and accomplishing something in the Spirit.

 

[YahuahSaves]

When we express an aspects of God's nature through our obedience to His law we are expressing our love for that aspect of who God is, which is why there are many verses in both the OT and the NT that connect our love for God with our obedience to His commandments. So everything that God chose to command was specifically commanded for the purpose of teaching us how to love different aspects of His nature. For example, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, so by following God's instructions for how to have a holy conduct as He is holy, we are expressing our love for God's holiness, which is why they are included as part of how to obey the greatest two commandments. What God was instructing the Israelites to do by loving Him with all of their heart, soul, and mind should not mean something different than what we are being instructed to do.

Loving our enemies is in accordance with verses like Exodus 23:4-5, Deuteronomy 23:7, Proverbs 24:17-18, and Proverbs 25:21-22, so Jesus was not teaching something that was brand new.

So, since I've seen you around and saying different things about scripture... do you think humans can follow God's law on their own? And what else do you think God wants when it comes to obedience?

 

[YahuahSaves]

Often we and our non christian neighbours are respectable, polite, friendly folk. Who don't need anything!

I don’t know where you live, but it's not the case where I live

Do we deliberatly step over those boundaries and talk to them about Jesus?

I think we're supposed to try to share the gospel, but if a person isn't open, we can only plant a seed and God does the rest.

What about our giving. Do we really give generously to the many deserving causes?

Have you looked into how many charities actually spend donations? I have. The question is, do we really give generously to our enemies? There's a standard God has set, and it's beyond human understanding.

 

[YahuahSaves]

it doesn't EVER mean we give people everything they think they want

But it does mean we have a certain responsibility to those enemies who come to us in actual need, to see if we might be equipped in some way to help them fulfill those needs in the best, and most God fearing manner possible.

Jesus would disagree with you! this scripture shows we definitely need help from the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 5:38-48

Teaching about Revenge

38 “You have heard the law that says the punishment must match the injury: ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’[a] 39 But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also. 40 If you are sued in court and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat, too. 41 If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles. 42 Give to those who ask, and don’t turn away from those who want to borrow.

Teaching about Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’[c] and hate your enemy. 44 But I say, love your enemies![d] Pray for those who persecute you! 45 In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. 46 If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. 47 If you are kind only to your friends,[e] how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. 48 But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

 

[Jonaitis]

I think you're on point about it, Pipp. I always found this passage relevant:

When Jesus had washed the feet of His disciples and put on His outer garments and resumed His place, He said to them, “Do you understand what I have done to you? You call me teacher and lord, and you are right, for so I am. If I then, your lord and teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you."
– John 13:12-15

The Lord Jesus called us to serve others in the same way that He came to serve, and His service was the greatest example of His love.

I believe this applies as well as for God, as our Lord said in another place that our service to Him is our love for Him (John 14:15).

In short, loving others meets the best for others, be that to God or our fellow man.

 

[YahuahSaves]

I think you're on point about it, Pipp. I always found this passage relevant:

The Lord Jesus called us to serve others in the same way that He came to serve, and His service was the greatest example of His love.

I believe this applies as well as for God, as our Lord said in another place that our service to Him is our love for Him (John 14:15).

In short, loving others meets the best for others, be that to God or our fellow man.

Great answer. But everyone seems to be avoiding the most important question

If love is a doing word, perhaps loving God means obeying his will ( check) but isn't it interesting that the way Jesus describes that we have to love God is in a much greater way than we are to love each other? They're "equally important", but God is first, right? Do you think we humans have those commandments in reverse when we look at the reality of our relationship with God?

Do you think its possible we humans can love God in the way he asks?

 

[Jonaitis]

Great answer. But everyone seems to be avoiding the most important question

Do you think its possible we humans can love God in the way he asks?

Yes. I do not believe God would command us if He did not provide us the grace to fulfill it.

 

[Tolworth John]

ave you looked into how many charities actually spend donations?

Yes, but there are charities that use there assets wisely and even if they aren't the best how else are we in the west going to help Christians or the poor in the third world?
Do you trust government run charities to spend wisely or a Christian charity.

If you can find it, matthew Parish's article, 2 Why Africa needs Christianity" has interesting points.
briefly.
As a atheist who grew up in Africa he went back as a reporter to view a unesco water aid project. He commented on the 4 wheel drive vihicals and luxury hotels they stayed in, but also noted that the enthusiastic workers were often local Christians.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Yes, but there are charities that use there assets wisely and even if they aren't the best how else are we in the west going to help Christians or the poor in the third world?
Do you trust government run charities to spend wisely or a Christian charity.

If you can find it, matthew Parish's article, 2 Why Africa needs Christianity" has interesting points.
briefly.
As a atheist who grew up in Africa he went back as a reporter to view a unesco water aid project. He commented on the 4 wheel drive vihicals and luxury hotels they stayed in, but also noted that the enthusiastic workers were often local Christians.

I know not all charities rip off donations. I actually know of a Christian charity that does and a government one that does not.

The question is, do we really give generously to our enemies? There's a standard God has set, and it's beyond human understanding

The standard is in post #11

 

[Hazelelponi]

Jesus would disagree with you! this scripture shows we definitely need help from the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 5:38-48

Teaching about Revenge

38 “You have heard the law that says the punishment must match the injury: ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’[a] 39 But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also. 40 If you are sued in court and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat, too. 41 If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles. 42 Give to those who ask, and don’t turn away from those who want to borrow.

Teaching about Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’[c] and hate your enemy. 44 But I say, love your enemies![d] Pray for those who persecute you! 45 In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. 46 If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. 47 If you are kind only to your friends,[e] how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. 48 But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

I'm a little confused? Maybe it's too early but what is the exact point I made that your disagreeing with?

Are you saying that you believe Jesus thinks we should literally give people something we don't have to give? Or things that are bad for them?

Would you give a wino the alcohol he wanted and asked for instead of the food he actually needed? Do you imagine that's what Jesus wants from us?

Do you think Jesus is asking you to go and steal some random person's coat since you don't have one and you were sued for your shirt?

I don't know about you - but I don't believe Jesus would approve of giving the wino what he asked for instead of what he needed. Nor do I think Jesus is telling us that we have to give what we don't have to give in the first place.

One time I was in a LOT of pain and my husband asked me if there was anything I needed.

I answered by saying sure - he should go get a gun and shoot me in the head and put me out of my misery (I was only half joking but I did ask just that)

Should my husband have ended my life that day because I wanted it?

Or rather, did my husband do the right thing by figuring out what I needed and give me that instead?

 

[YahuahSaves]

I'm a little confused? Maybe it's too early but what is the exact point I made that your disagreeing with?

Are you saying that you believe Jesus thinks we should literally give people something we don't have to give? Or things that are bad for them?

Would you give a wino the alcohol he wanted and asked for instead of the food he actually needed? Do you imagine that's what Jesus wants from us?

Do you think Jesus is asking you to go and steal some random person's coat since you don't have one and you were sued for your shirt?

I don't know about you - but I don't believe Jesus would approve of giving the wino what he asked for instead of what he needed. Nor do I think Jesus is telling us that we have to give what we don't have to give in the first place.

One time I was in a LOT of pain and my husband asked me if there was anything I needed.

I answered by saying sure - he should go get a gun and shoot me in the head and put me out of my misery (I was only half joking but I did ask just that)

Should my husband have ended my life that day because I wanted it?

Or rather, did my husband do the right thing by figuring out what I needed and give me that instead?

Absolutely not. I was referring to the scriptures, in post #11 particularly where it says:

But I say, do not resist an evil person! If someone slaps you on the right cheek, offer the other cheek also. 40 If you are sued in court and your shirt is taken from you, give your coat, too. 41 If a soldier demands that you carry his gear for a mile, carry it two miles. 42 Give to those who ask, and don’t turn away from those who want to borrow.

It seems like an impossible standard to keep for most people. Especially when it comes to copping abuse without retaliation. Most people want to avoid these parts of scripture that seem to go against our deepest instincts for self-preservation.

 

[Hazelelponi]

It seems like an impossible standard to keep for most people. Especially when it comes to copping abuse without retaliation. Most people want to avoid these parts of scripture that seem to go against our deepest instincts for self-preservation.

You had specifically said Jesus would disagree with me and the points I brought up (which I tried to expound upon after you said Jesus would disagree with my post because I was confused as to what you meant)

We don't live right now in the same situation as the Israel of Jesus' day - so we can't treat our situation the same.

The Jews back then had plenty of reasons to be resentful. They were treated like dogs or worse by the occupying Romans in their own country.

That's a hard row to hoe for anyone and keep a forgiving, loving heart through it all.

Christians in the west have always been the majority group (until recent years) and don't know much at all about daily living in the threat of real persecution.

Forgiving the personal bad treatment of an occupying force who sees and treats you and everyone you love as less than human when you're just there trying to survive is challenging.

Imagine not being able to walk down the street without risking outright confrontation and attack.

Want to run to the market and pick something up for dinner?

Imagine being spit on by some along the way, forced to carry heavy equipment by others along that same way, potentially robbed of the very clothes on your back - and all this before you can even make it a couple blocks.

Now imagine this is just what you're life has become - every day, every day.

Now imagine taking it with a loving, forgiving heart in a manner that reflects God's love for you - so much so that what they see in your reaction makes them desire to know your God.

I say this is not possible outside the Holy Spirit - but God requires it, because we are His ordinary means.

People - especially our enemies - need that. They need something to shake them to their core and think wow - I need a God like that! I WANT a God like that.

Western Christians don't have many real enemies in our world today. Your not well liked - but open hostilities in your own country by people who think you should have been killed is almost a foreign concept. (Though granted you will see it in your lifetime if God doesn't stop what's happening - but it's still yet future).

Trying to extrapolate one situation onto a completely different one doesn't usually work.

It's not like God told Israel they had no right to defend their national borders prior to the Roman occupation - because He didn't. But once occupied - there was a rare opportunity to truly show Gods nature to those who needed to see it.

 

[YahuahSaves]

, it doesn't EVER mean we give people everything they think they want

I was referring to this ^
Sometimes evil people will take what they want and what are we to do then, if we're to follow Christ's example?

Forgiving the personal bad treatment of an occupying force who sees and treats you and everyone you love as less than human when you're just there trying to survive is challenging.

Yes it is.

Imagine being spit on by some along the way,

This has happened to me ^

As for your comments about westerners, I understand there are more "comforts" than elsewhere in the world, but to say individuals can't suffer persecution because they're from the west is presumptuous. Some people do experience some terrible things no matter their place in the world or walk in life.

I say this is not possible outside the Holy Spirit - but God requires it, because we are His ordinary means.

Exactly my point, only possible with the Holy Spirit, but it's no easy feat resisting our natural instincts...the narrow way it is.