Test

[Svigor]

Sooo, can I post in this forum then?

Ah, I see that I can. Okay, I'll try it here then.

I'd like to hear from Christians about the scriptural basis (bases?) of their "anti-racism." As long as it's scripture, more is better. Thanks in advance.

Oh, and hello to all.

 

[HisEagle]

Please clarify. What "anti-racism" are you talking about?

 

[Svigor]

Any and all.

Oh, in case the quotation marks were throwing you off, they weren't meant in an anti-Christian kind of way...I just think the term itself deserves scare-quotes.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

I think the OP is operating under the assumption that the Bible (whatever you may take that to mean), tacitly or directly supports racism, the idea that actions should be taken against the Other because they are less than Us.

 

[Svigor]

I think the OP is operating under the assumption that the Bible (whatever you may take that to mean), tacitly or directly supports racism, the idea that actions should be taken against the Other because they are less than Us.

"Racism" has a much broader definition than that, even excluding the catch-all definition currently in use in the public sphere.

We can discuss my assumptions, I suppose, but what I'm looking for is what I asked for in the OP: any and all Christian scriptural bases for opposition to racism.

 

[HisEagle]

Galatians 3:28... "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

 

[Daniels]

Test all things; hold fast what is good.

 

[Blackguard_]

What do you define as "racism"?

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Galatians 3:28... "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to groundhog again.

 

[Ginny]

Matthew 22: 36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself

Romans 13:10
Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Galatians 5:14
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

James 2:8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right.

Luke 10- The Good Samaritan
27He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'[c]; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[d]"
28"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."
29But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
30In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35The next day he took out two silver coins[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'
36"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"
37The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

 

[Svigor]

Thanks for the quotes everyone.

Are there more? I'd like all I can get.

 

[Svigor]

What do you define as "racism"?

Vis-a-vis this thread I'm flexible.

 

[Svigor]

What do you define as "racism"?

Rather than a definition, let's just use an example: a nation exclusively of and for blacks along with a Christian denomination for same.

Okay, since there have been no new quotes, let's move on to discussing the ones we have.

Galatians 3:28... "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

I don't really see this as a prohibition on or even a disapproval of racism. Obviously Paul doesn't mean there is literally neither Jew nor Greek, nor slave nor free, nor male nor female. Churches condoned slavery for eons afterward so it wasn't meant to be taken literally. Christ himself saw and noted Jewish/non-Jewish distinctions perfectly clearly, even in the spiritual sense (more on that later).

"You are all one in Christ Jesus" isn't exactly a straightforward statement. It can be interpreted many ways, and doesn't really lend itself to anti-racism (especially considering context, as Paul directly precedes the statement with some totally obvious non-literal philosophy).

Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Is that a Bible quote, or just a pithy saying?

I'll reply to Ginny's post separately, due to its length.

 

[Svigor]

Matthew 22: 36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself

Romans 13:10
Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Galatians 5:14
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

James 2:8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right.

Luke 10- The Good Samaritan
27He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'[c]; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[d]"
28"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."
29But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
30In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35The next day he took out two silver coins[e] and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'
36"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"
37The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

It all seems to hinge upon one's definition of neighbor, yes?

A neighbor in OT was not simply "the fellow next door." It meant cotribalist/coreligionist (i.e., fellow-Hebrew; tribe and religion were inextricably linked for the Hebrews). Now, obviously, this changes the context of much of the OT radically from the viewpoint of common modern Christianity, since CMC interprets neighbor as "everybody." I don't think that's consistent with the OT, in which God orders his chosen people (not exactly the most egalitarian concept) to kill and plunder their neighbors.

All that aside, let's look at The Good Samaritan. The Samaritans were a people virtually identical racially to the Hebrews. Modern DNA analysis shows they are largely similar in ancestry to Jews, to the extent that they have much of the blood of the Jew's Jews, the Cohanim. Jewish history shows a running argument about just how Jewish the Samaritans are/were; the consensus seems to be (or rather, have been) that they were "false Jews." These facts do not lend themselves to TGS as an anti-racist parable. The Levant was the crossroads of the old world. Jesus had doubtless seen a wide variety of racial types in his life, and if anti-racism had been his objective with TGS, he could've used any of many far less racially similar groups than Samaritans. The salient fact here is that the Samaritan is practically racially identical to Jesus' audience, not dissimilar. The difference between the two is cultural, not racial. It might in fact be that Jesus intended TGS as an endorsement of pan-Jewish solidarity; this seems far more likely to me than the popular alternative. He seems to be saying, "don't get too hung up on who's a 'better Jew' (Hebrews were obsessed with bloodlines and families and tribes and sects) - instead take your Jewish brothers where you can find them."

 

[Blackguard_]

He seems to be saying, "don't get too hung up on who's a 'better Jew' (Hebrews were obsessed with bloodlines and families and tribes and sects) - instead take your Jewish brothers where you can find them."

Then how do you explain the implication the "true" jews who ignored the injured man were not neighbors to him?
The answer to "who was a nieighbor to him?" was not "all of them" right?

 

[Ginny]

Svigor: It seems as although you asked for scripture in your OP and were quite genuine in asking, you already knew what we were going to say to make a point. Based on your replies and personal interpretation of scripture, it appears as though you feel there is no scripture that directs Christian to love everyone or be "anti-racist".

If so, may I ask what the point is?

Thanks.

 

[Svigor]

Svigor: It seems as although you asked for scripture in your OP and were quite genuine in asking, you already knew what we were going to say to make a point.

I have had this conversation before, but not with anti-racist Christians. In other words, not with people holding the belief in earnest; that's really not the way to test a position, in my experience.

Based on your replies and personal interpretation of scripture, it appears as though you feel there is no scripture that directs Christian to love everyone or be "anti-racist".

I am aware of no such scripture, which is a quite different position. IOW, I'm open to changing my position. (also, there's no need to conflate "love everyone" and "don't be racist," as the two are hardly mutually exclusive)

If so, may I ask what the point is?

I'm trying to find a scriptural basis for the common Christian opposition to racism. I understand that Christians can be anti-racist without deriving that position from their faith, but in my experience Christians proffer their Christianity as anti-racist. I'm trying to find if that position is supported, or if it's just a marriage of convenience with modern leftism as I suspect.

 

[Svigor]

Then how do you explain the implication the "true" jews who ignored the injured man were not neighbors to him?

I don't see that it needs any extra explanation - the "pedigreed Jews" are indeed shown as "less neighborly" than the "false Jew," but the point seems to be that "reciprocity + Jewishness= neighbor, Jewishness=1/2 of the equation but not enough."

It's also worth mentioning that Jesus said many things that can be taken out of context, but in context mean something quite different. Take Jesus' "turn the other cheek": did he mean that as a new rule, to replace "an eye for an eye"? I think not. JC also said the old law would be changed "not a jot or a tittle." To reconcile all of this means to weigh "eye for an eye" with "turn the other cheek," which means there's judgement involved. JC certainly didn't turn the other cheek with the moneychangers.

My personal theory about "turn the other cheek" is that Jesus was trying to say that revenge wasn't so much a commandment as a guideline for justice; Jews were a stubborn, stiff-necked, honor-driven people (like most Middle-Easterners today), and he was trying to get them to cool down a bit vis-a-vis revenge-taking, to see "an eye for an eye" as a formula for justice, not a commandment to run around looking to start blood-feuds.

The answer to "who was a nieighbor to him?" was not "all of them" right?

Correct. He seems to be saying, "you need the name and the behavior; you must be a Jew and act the Jew." He seems to be saying that skating by on one's name just wasn't going to cut it with him - titles and honors and family alone do not a good Jew make.

 

[Svigor]

There are many explicitly racist passages in the OT, but here is a striking NT example:

Matthew 15:21-28:

21 After going out from there, Jesus went to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that area came and cried out, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is horribly demon-possessed!” 23 But he did not answer her a word. Then his disciples came and begged him, “Send her away, because she keeps on crying out after us.” 24 So he answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and bowed down before him and said, “Lord, help me!” 26 “It is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs,” he said. 27 “Yes, Lord,” she replied, “but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “Woman, your faith is great! Let what you want be done for you.” And her daughter was healed from that hour.

He ignored her because she was an alien, a Caananite (same basic racial group, but definitely not a Jew). Then, after she persisted he told her to take a hike because he was concerned only with the children of Israel (specifically the lost sheep of the house of Israel, which dovetails well with my theory above about The Good Samaritan and Jesus' probable goal of uniting the Jews). Only after she humiliates herself and recognizes Jewish racial/tribal superiority does he relent.

It seems Jesus' largesse was rather strictly qualified, and normally limited to Jews only.

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

That can be explained...one that wasn't racism because God doesn't show prejudice...it was possibly an example to the disciples of how it was common for the jews to treat gentiles to show them how they were acting to thus convict them and show them their error. You can see God isn't racist by:

His plan for salvation for all :
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


His wanting all to love one another:
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Joh 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

...to name a few...

Also: God wasn't racist in the OT either. His judgements were due to their sins and actions...not their race or non jewishness. He even used those nations as judgement to Isreal several times!