Tempted in every way that we are...?

[cuja1]

It says Jesus was "tempted" with "all" sin, those the poor man deals with, those the rich man deals with, those in positions of power and authority and those that are not...

But the Fact that he knew no sin, (perhaps before being tempted by sin) but was made sin for us (perhaps) coming to a full knowledge of sin, "after" being tempted by every manner of sin...

But if he was "tempted" with all sin, then that means either; the thought crossed his mind to sin, or Satan was allowed access to him to force the thought to go through Christ's mind, to sin, but he didn't sin, that's not what I'm getting at, what I am getting at is that, in order to be tempted in every way, all manner of sin must have crossed Christ's mind, did it not, sure he rejected it, but he still had to have had the thought, right?

He'd have to have been tempted, although he rejected, he had to have been tempted/had the thought cross his mind to say, I don't know, molest children or rape women or murder someone or something. These thoughts had to have crossed his mind, but it says they were "temptations", so does that mean Christ spent any time at all "entertaining" these thoughts.

Is a "temptation" a thought that is entertained or played with for a bit, but ultimately rejected, or is/was it instantly rejected or not?

What I'm getting at is: How should we view or deal with if we are having these sinful thoughts (temptations), and do these thoughts come from us, or the enemy?

And how should we feel if we feel like we're facing every manner of temptation even the subtle and grotesque, should we feel bad, like we're a bad person for having those thought's (if they came from us) or should we say celebrate a victory when these thoughts cross our minds and we instantly shoot or cast them down, or should we feel guilty for having the thought...

I guess you'd have to know, for sure, whether these thoughts were from the enemy or as it says in James 1:12-15,

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.

Jamess 1:14
But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

James 1:15
Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

So, where do these temptations (thoughts) come from? If Jesus was tempted in every way, doesn't this mean all sorts of sinful, evil, perverse thoughts crossed his mind, what did he do with them...?

Why wouldn't James 1:14-15 apply to Christ?

Is it, to have a sinful thought is evil, (but has not yet given birth to sin) But to instantly shoot down a sinful thought is good?

Comments?

God Bless!

I posted a thread along these lines before reading this. I personally don't think you can keep sinful thoughts out of your head, you can only choose to approve of or reject a sinful thought. I spent years trying to keep bad thoughts out of my head until I came to the conclusion that it was the devil putting them there. I think it'd be like trying not to hear a person when they talk to you. You can't keep the devil from talking to you, you can only tell him where to go with his ideas.

 

[Kutte]

I posted a thread along these lines before reading this. I personally don't think you can keep sinful thoughts out of your head, you can only choose to approve of or reject a sinful thought. I spent years trying to keep bad thoughts out of my head until I came to the conclusion that it was the devil putting them there. I think it'd be like trying not to hear a person when they talk to you. You can't keep the devil from talking to you, you can only tell him where to go with his ideas.

Hi cuja,

The devil putting bad thoughts in your head? No excuses please. If we begin to blame the devil for everything bad we are at the same time whitewashing ourselves of any bad deeds committed on purpose.

Kutte

 

[cuja1]

Hi cuja,

The devil putting bad thoughts in your head? No excuses please. If we begin to blame the devil for everything bad we are at the same time whitewashing ourselves of any bad deeds committed on purpose.

Kutte

Excuse me Kutte but it ain't like I'm saying the devil made me kill someone, we're talking about thoughts, I'm hardly saying the devil is responsible for everything. Maybe you're wrong. Please tell me how the devil tempts us, or do you not believe that he does.

 

[Xalith]

Hi cuja,

The devil putting bad thoughts in your head? No excuses please. If we begin to blame the devil for everything bad we are at the same time whitewashing ourselves of any bad deeds committed on purpose.

Kutte

While "the devil made me do it" is not a valid excuse for willful sinning, there are demonic forces at work in the world, and this includes (at least I believe it does) horrible, nasty thoughts that cross your mind out of nowhere.

It can (and does, at least to me) happen anytime. I can be doing something so mundane, like driving down the road and then suddenly, in my head, I get the nastiest dirty and entirely immoral thoughts in my head at times. I know that I wasn't sitting there trying to think of the most filthy sinful things I can think of, the thoughts just come out of nowhere like it wasn't even me who came up with them.

I quickly brush them away, and say a quick, silent, short prayer asking the Lord to help me wash my mind clean of these evil thoughts, while apologizing for allowing them to exist as long as they did, and I ask Him to help me keep such thoughts out of my mind and/or asking Him to rebuke the demons causing them if there are any.

But then, on the flipside, I've had good thoughts come out of nowhere, that make me pause and go "I surely didn't think of that just now, where'd that thought come from?" and the answer is always quite simple: The Holy Spirit. And then I of course say a quick thank-you, because when it happens, it is usually when I'm indecisive about something and I just can't make my mind up.

An example, earlier in the week, I was at work and I was about to take a break in half an hour and I just didn't feel like my usual junk food and I hadn't eaten much of anything that day, and I was grumbling to myself, saying things like "I don't feel like potato chips, pudding, etc... could you help me with this, Lord?"

Well, 5-10 min later, I was like "I wonder if that menu to that southern BBQ place is still on the bulletin board"... nope, it wasn't. I asked the manager and she's like "huh, we'll have to get a new one." and then... without even thinking, I said "hey, you still have that Fox's Pizza menu?" and she goes "I think I do..."

Well, 45min later, I was eating delicious pizza (after saying a prayer of thanks, of course). There wound up being enough for me to take the rest of it home to my parents (Mom hadn't eaten anything all day yet, because she didn't feel like making supper). It worked out extremely well in the end, so I'm sure the sudden thought out of nowhere was the work of the Holy Spirit. It was very nice of Him to show me a way that worked out quite well in the end run.

 

[Xalith]

Paul says that when an unbeliever sins it is no longer the person who does it but the sin living within them. Since being born from above by God's grace and being filled with the Holy Spirit I no longer worry about sin.

I'm of two minds about this quoted block. I know Paul says something like this in the Bible, but yet there's a part that worries me.

That is almost like telling people "you can do what you want, if you sin it isn't you doing it, but the fleshly body doing it."

But yet I know that certainly can't be true. I know He is willing to forgive us of any sin we commit, and he will chastise us for sinning, or otherwise deal with it as He sees necessary and we are to be obedient and submit ourselves to whatever type of correction He deems necessary or right.

However... on the flipside, it gives me hope that when I do sin (and I've sinned since becoming a Christian), that I don't necessarily have to apologize 50 times in a day and feel horrible about what I've done. I don't want to just callously sin, but yet if I spend the day feeling horrible and guilty over it, then it is difficult to do other things, like praising Him.