Tempted in every way that we are...?

[Neogaia777]

It says Jesus was "tempted" with "all" sin, those the poor man deals with, those the rich man deals with, those in positions of power and authority and those that are not...

But the Fact that he knew no sin, (perhaps before being tempted by sin) but was made sin for us (perhaps) coming to a full knowledge of sin, "after" being tempted by every manner of sin...

But if he was "tempted" with all sin, then that means either; the thought crossed his mind to sin, or Satan was allowed access to him to force the thought to go through Christ's mind, to sin, but he didn't sin, that's not what I'm getting at, what I am getting at is that, in order to be tempted in every way, all manner of sin must have crossed Christ's mind, did it not, sure he rejected it, but he still had to have had the thought, right?

He'd have to have been tempted, although he rejected, he had to have been tempted/had the thought cross his mind to say, I don't know, molest children or rape women or murder someone or something. These thoughts had to have crossed his mind, but it says they were "temptations", so does that mean Christ spent any time at all "entertaining" these thoughts.

Is a "temptation" a thought that is entertained or played with for a bit, but ultimately rejected, or is/was it instantly rejected or not?

What I'm getting at is: How should we view or deal with if we are having these sinful thoughts (temptations), and do these thoughts come from us, or the enemy?

And how should we feel if we feel like we're facing every manner of temptation even the subtle and grotesque, should we feel bad, like we're a bad person for having those thought's (if they came from us) or should we say celebrate a victory when these thoughts cross our minds and we instantly shoot or cast them down, or should we feel guilty for having the thought...

I guess you'd have to know, for sure, whether these thoughts were from the enemy or as it says in James 1:12-15,

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.

Jamess 1:14
But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.

James 1:15
Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

So, where do these temptations (thoughts) come from? If Jesus was tempted in every way, doesn't this mean all sorts of sinful, evil, perverse thoughts crossed his mind, what did he do with them...?

Why wouldn't James 1:14-15 apply to Christ?

Is it, to have a sinful thought is evil, (but has not yet given birth to sin) But to instantly shoot down a sinful thought is good?

Comments?

God Bless!

 

[joshuanazar]

Temptations come from this corrupt world, from demonic spirits and our own corrupt interpretation of this world. While in this world we will constantly be tempted. Temptations become bad when after we recognize a thought as being sinful, we still think about it. Jesus was constantly rejecting evil thoughts as soon as they appeared in his mind. He was able to do this by constantly keeping his mind on God.

 

[Neogaia777]

Temptations come from this corrupt world, from demonic spirits and our own corrupt interpretation of this world.

How do you know when a thought is coming from you, or from demonic spirits?

While in this world we will constantly be tempted. Temptations become bad when after we recognize a thought as being sinful, we still think about it.

Why is that?

Jesus was constantly rejecting evil thoughts as soon as they appeared in his mind. He was able to do this by constantly keeping his mind on God.

Jesus temptations were clearly coming from the enemy then, and not from his own thoughts, as stated in James. the Bible says "After the temptation was concluded Satan retired from him until another convienient time." So, it had to be like a walk, going through the smaller commonplace temptations, to the Devil "bumping it up" a notch, notch by notch, until Jesus had rejected all his temptations, and the Devil had to retire after the final set of temptations were rejected by Jesus....

Do we have to through the same thing Jesus did, or not?

God Bless!

 

[joshuanazar]

There only way to tell the origin of a temptation is through the gift of discernment.

But when we have a thought and recognize that the thought isn't Godly, we also understand that it is a thought that God would not dwell on. So we realize that we need to get rid of that thought as soon as we can because it is not like God. If we do not cast down the thought, we are basically saying that we enjoy the pleasure of the thought more than we love God and want to be like him.

This world is corrupt and our bodies are corrupt because of Adam. What we perceive through our five senses are really corrupted information. Now Jesus didn't have a corrupt body, so it was clear to him that the corrupt input from the world was corrupt and he did not develop any corrupt thoughts of his own. He was only tempted by Satan, but I am sure that Satan tried harder to tempt him than any of us.

 

[Neogaia777]

There only way to tell the origin of a temptation is through the gift of discernment.

But when we have a thought and recognize that the thought isn't Godly, we also understand that it is a thought that God would not dwell on. So we realize that we need to get rid of that thought as soon as we can because it is not like God. If we do not cast down the thought, we are basically saying that we enjoy the pleasure of the thought more than we love God and want to be like him.

This world is corrupt and our bodies are corrupt because of Adam. What we perceive through our five senses are really corrupted information. Now Jesus didn't have a corrupt body, so it was clear to him that the corrupt input from the world was corrupt and he did not develop any corrupt thoughts of his own. He was only tempted by Satan, but I am sure that Satan tried harder to tempt him than any of us.

I was tempted like Christ was but it was in a dream, I was tempted, or should I say a gun put to my back, and told to Judge, which I do not do, between good and evil, I was working at a sorting machine, into which I was to sort the good from the bad, and to make a long story short, we were going so fast, that I plugged up the machine and it broke down, that's when I woke up laughing my butt off.

To this day I believe the dream was from Satan, approved by God, to try and "make me" eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, by judging in this world, needless to say, I didn't make a very good judge between good and evil, my laughing angered him, I felt the anger when I woke up laughing if only but for a moment, then it was gone...

I have also been tempted in a dream to where one was the offering of all the kingdoms of the world, but I failed this test, as I couldn't tell who was offering, I was offered many nations and many different medals for ideals like courage, honor, truth, integrity, I pondered this one for a moment, and, in my dream I took Israel for myself and took the medal for courage, and I then delegated the rest of the nations and medals to deserving, qualified individuals, and I said to myself: "This is only until the Lord returns, and upon his return, I shall give him the nation of Israel and retire"

I don't know who was offering, but I'll bet it was another carefully orchastrated test by the enemy, to test me out to the limit..

I've had suicidal spirits try to take me and say Oh, just kill yourself, God will forgive you and he will resurrect you and you can join him in heaven, which is a much, much better life anyway... I was/used to be sometimes still am tempted by that one...

Is that one like where Satan tempted Jesus to throw himself over the ledge, or what, saying God has promised to raise you up?

Anyways, just my thoughts and how strongly I have been tempted in dreams and in life,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I was tempted like Christ was but it was in a dream, I was tempted, or should I say a gun put to my back, and told to Judge, which I do not do, between good and evil, I was working at a sorting machine, into which I was to sort the good from the bad, and to make a long story short, we were going so fast, that I plugged up the machine and it broke down, that's when I woke up laughing my butt off.

To this day I believe the dream was from Satan, approved by God, to try and "make me" eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, by judging in this world, needless to say, I didn't make a very good judge between good and evil, my laughing angered him, I felt the anger when I woke up laughing if only but for a moment, then it was gone...

I have also been tempted in a dream to where one was the offering of all the kingdoms of the world, but I failed this test, as I couldn't tell who was offering, I was offered many nations and many different medals for ideals like courage, honor, truth, integrity, I pondered this one for a moment, and, in my dream I took Israel for myself and took the medal for courage, and I then delegated the rest of the nations and medals to deserving, qualified individuals, and I said to myself: "This is only until the Lord returns, and upon his return, I shall give him the nation of Israel and retire"

I don't know who was offering, but I'll bet it was another carefully orchastrated test by the enemy, to test me out to the limit..

I've had suicidal spirits try to take me and say Oh, just kill yourself, God will forgive you and he will resurrect you and you can join him in heaven, which is a much, much better life anyway... I was/used to be sometimes still am tempted by that one...

Is that one like where Satan tempted Jesus to throw himself over the ledge, or what, saying God has promised to raise you up?

Anyways, just my thoughts and how strongly I have been tempted in dreams and in life,

God Bless!

The medals for different virtues to be given out to the new leaders of the different nations, like the medal for courage I kept, and I got to see what was on the other side of it was it's antithesis, "fear"... and I remembered the story line, where their is no fear, their is no courage without fear, I'm assuming the other medals had their antithesis on the back of them too, but this was only known by the recipient of the medal, most of the time...

Does everything have it's antithesis...?

Does good and evil, right an wrong, life and death, sin, consequence...?

Can one exist without the others, maybe we need those people in hell in eternal torment, exist there because they have to, in order to grant eternal life in heaven to others?

I believe they can, but I'd like to hear your thoughts?

Am I imagining all of this I'm no leader or nobody special... Was this all a result of over-inflated ego or foolish pride to think that I would be bestowed with such an honor, or be in that position, that place, was I soaring to high, I was experiencing abundant revelations and signs, that could definitely cause ones self to get puffed up... was my dream the result of what I believed I could be?

God Bless!

 

[joshuanazar]

I don't know they seem like interesting dreams especilly the judging one. Good can exist without evil as by the fact that God existed before there was evil. so any good characteristic should be able to exist without it's negative counterpart. However in this life we need choices so we need the good and the bad. But after this life I do not know. It is hard to view concepts from the spiritual realm when our minds are limited by this earthly realm. That is why we need the Holy Spirit to teach us.

 

[pescador]

I think often about what sin is. The most important verses to me on this subject are in Romans 7...

"I would not have known sin except through the law. For indeed I would not have known what it means to desire something belonging to someone else if the law had not said, “Do not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of wrong desires. For apart from the law, sin is dead. And I was once alive apart from the law, but with the coming of the commandment sin became alive and I died. So I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life brought death! For sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it I died. So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.

Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Absolutely not! But sin, so that it would be shown to be sin, produced death in me through what is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual—but I am unspiritual, sold into slavery to sin. For I don’t understand what I am doing. For I do not do what I want—instead, I do what I hate. But if I do what I don’t want, I agree that the law is good. But now it is no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me. For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I want to do the good, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but I do the very evil I do not want! Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer me doing it but sin that lives in me.

So, I find the law that when I want to do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God in my inner being. But I see a different law in my members waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."

Sin to me is like a virus or a cancer that exists within me (that I caught from my parents) but is not a part of me. Like a virus it tries to destroy the good spiritual health that is naturally mine. Paul says that when an unbeliever sins it is no longer the person who does it but the sin living within them. Since being born from above by God's grace and being filled with the Holy Spirit I no longer worry about sin. I have been given the perfect antidote within my body so that, even though the sin is still present, it has no further power in my life.

To take the analogy to disease further, if I have an infection and I am prescribed an antibiotic, it is up to me to a) get the prescription filled and 2) to take it for the entire time it has been prescribed. If I don't get it filled (accept Jesus as my savior and receive the Holy Spirit) or don't take the full course (live according to the Spirit of God) then sin will regain its power over me and I will suffer the consequences. BTW, the prescribing doctor (God) will never take the antibiotic away from me that he has prescribed. I can, of course, throw the antibiotic away since I don't see complete healing while I'm taking it, or I can go on faith that it is has greater power than the sickness that I inherited.

 

[joshuanazar]

I think often about what sin is. The most important verses to me on this subject are in Romans 7...

"I would not have known sin except through the law. For indeed I would not have known what it means to desire something belonging to someone else if the law had not said, “Do not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of wrong desires. For apart from the law, sin is dead. And I was once alive apart from the law, but with the coming of the commandment sin became alive and I died. So I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life brought death! For sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it I died. So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.

Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Absolutely not! But sin, so that it would be shown to be sin, produced death in me through what is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual—but I am unspiritual, sold into slavery to sin. For I don’t understand what I am doing. For I do not do what I want—instead, I do what I hate. But if I do what I don’t want, I agree that the law is good. But now it is no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me. For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I want to do the good, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but I do the very evil I do not want! Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer me doing it but sin that lives in me.

So, I find the law that when I want to do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God in my inner being. But I see a different law in my members waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."

Sin to me is like a virus or a cancer that exists within me (that I caught from my parents) but is not a part of me. Like a virus it tries to destroy the good spiritual health that is naturally mine. Paul says that when an unbeliever sins it is no longer the person who does it but the sin living within them. Since being born from above by God's grace and being filled with the Holy Spirit I no longer worry about sin. I have been given the perfect antidote within my body so that, even though the sin is still present, it has no further power in my life.

To take the analogy to disease further, if I have an infection and I am prescribed an antibiotic, it is up to me to a) get the prescription filled and 2) to take it for the entire time it has been prescribed. If I don't get it filled (accept Jesus as my savior and receive the Holy Spirit) or don't take the full course (live according to the Spirit of God) then sin will regain its power over me and I will suffer the consequences. BTW, the prescribing doctor (God) will never take the antibiotic away from me that he has prescribed. I can, of course, throw the antibiotic away since I don't see complete healing while I'm taking it, or I can go on faith that it is has greater power than the sickness that I inherited.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Neogaia777]

Is it your opinion that Jesus had every kind of wrong thought go through his mind constantly, or not? and do we have to go through the same, as his followers?

God Bless!

 

[joshuanazar]

Is it your opinion that Jesus had every kind of wrong thought go through his mind constantly, or not? and do we have to go through the same, as his followers?

God Bless!

I do not believe that Jesus repeated the same wrong thoughts and I believed that he constantly had wrong thoughts. After all he did focus on the Father a whole lot. When we keep our focus on God, evil thoughts have no dominion over us.

 

[Neogaia777]

I do not believe that Jesus repeated the same wrong thoughts and I believed that he constantly had wrong thoughts. After all he did focus on the Father a whole lot. When we keep our focus on God, evil thoughts have no dominion over us.

But we will entertain a wrong thought some times and "dwell" on it, is that when it becomes temptation, is when you find yourself entertaining the sinful thought and not instantly dispel it like Jesus did.

God Bless!

 

[joshuanazar]

If we find ourselves entertaining or dwelling on wrong thoughts, then it has gone to far. I'm not saying it is a sin, but we can definitely stop it before that point. And that is what Jesus did.

 

[Xalith]

Some dreams were mentioned earlier in the thread, and I feel I could also relate my own dreams on the subject of Temptation.

I don't know the full meaning behind these dreams, but they very much appear as though I was being tested:

The first dream, I had walked back to my mother's bedroom, and she was sitting on her bed talking about voices she was hearing from demonic forces. I told her I didn't hear anything, and she said 'really? they're right here, whispering in my ear!'. I leaned closer, and I heard them.. though not well enough I could make out what they were saying.

Well, I walked outside the house and paced around, pondering what was going on, when I heard Satan's voice. I knew it was Satan from second one, it was the most vile and ugly voice I've ever heard in my life. I don't think my brain could have possibly conjured that up, not something that sounded that vile. Ever since I became Saved, I've been saying prayers each night for Him to guard my dreams, and keep the evil ones out so that I might sleep in peace, so I am assuming that He allowed it to happen as a test.

EDIT: BTW, all but 2 of my dreams in my entire life were silent. This was one of the only 2 dreams that had actual sound in them, and Satan's voice (and the whispers that my mother was hearing) was the only sound in this dream.

Anyways, the conversation went like this:

Satan started with his usual accusations.. 'you think you're a Christian? You think you're saved? What about blah blah blah you've done?'

I said, "Lord, please rebuke him for me. Satan, begone...". Then Satan hissed in this vile way, dripping with anger, and said "What makes you think YOU have the authority to tell ME what to do!?" And I said "You're right... I don't have the authority to tell you what to do... that's why I asked the Lord to rebuke you for me." And then he hissed, getting even more annoyed from what I could tell, "What makes you think YOU deserve the ability to ask Him for anything!?" And I replied, "You're right... I deserve nothing He gives me. He gives me what He does out of love. Please leave me alone, Satan..."

And.... he left. I never heard from him again during that dream (the dream went on awhile afterwards), and I haven't heard that vile, filthy, ugly voice since. I don't know what sort of Test the LORD had in mind there, and whether or not I passed said Test, but I assume since the dream went on (it was pleasant thereafter) that I surely said what I was meant to say.

The second dream was a bit more complicated, and before I tell it, I need to say that I was once an avid video gamer. The dream started out as a video game dream, I was in this mansion for some reason. Weird, old English-style mansion. I don't remember why I was there, but I was there with friends, and we were searching for something. We found a staircase that was oddly enough turned the wrong way, allowing access to upstairs, but blocking downstairs. I went upstairs, found the switch to rotate the staircase (kinda like what you'd see in a Zelda-type game) and got access to the basement.

We went down into this basement, and next thing I knew, I was in a black void on a waterslide, a glowing waterslide. It whisked me away and then I realized I was on this weird large around thick glass platform hovering in the middle of a huge black void, an abyss. I had the idea that there was something immensely huge just out of my range of sight, and said thing definitely was not good. I was there with one friend, and a large pet lion, or some other type of large feline. Not sure if it was a lion, a leopard, or what it was, I just remember it being a large feline of some sort. Next thing I remember, we were fighting this dragon sorta thing, it hovered over the platform, it had a somewhat short, but armored tail that came to a sharp point, it had claws, and a long snout full of teeth (like dragons usually do). It had a white hide with blue accents, but it was evil and we were fighting it.

During the battle, my lion pet was badly wounded and was laying on the ground, the friend I was there was killed gruesomely and everything faded to black as I realized we were losing the battle. When I 'came to' in the dream, I was sitting on the ground, too wounded to stand, and for some weird reason, a bow&arrow was in my hands, and before me were lined up about a dozen people, faces very vaguely familiar (but I couldn't place). The only face I recognized was some friend I once knew IRL who moved away. They all had a look of desperation on their faces, sad, worried faces. The friend I knew form IRL had his arm around a huge 5-6 foot tall pet food sack.

Then came the evil guy. Not Satan or a demon, but what looked like a human who came floating down to the platform, reminded me of some kind of evil wizard or something. I do not remember the actual words he spoke to me, but it was along the lines of your average villain diatribe like your average story cliche villain likes to boast about how he can't lose, how the good people are weak, etc. Anyways, the idea was I had to choose someone that had to die and he'd let the rest of us go. The feed bag symbolized my pet who I couldn't see (I assumed he was laying behind me, still wounded and bleeding). I was to shoot one of them with the bow&arrow that I held in my hand, and the evil guy would let the rest of us go.

I looked from left to right, then right to left slowly. The evil one was impatient, he said "well!?" as he expected my choice. I looked left to right again, thinking "I wish I could stop time so I could think!"

Then........the dream ended right there. I didn't wake with a start as if it were a nightmare; I simply opened my eyes. I was laying on my left side facing the wall, so I rolled onto my right side to check the time, it was just after 6AM (I had the alarm set for 7AM). Plenty of time for the dream to continue; there's nothing in the room, no sounds, nothing that should have possibly woke me up. The first conscious thought that came to my mind: "I wish I coulda just turned and shot the evil guy in the head, maybe make him fall off the platform."

I think the dream ended because I refused to choose someone, I refused to shoot an innocent person. I couldn't do it. OR, if this was a test from the LORD, He was probably wanting me to make my decision consciously rather than in the dream and my 'shoot the evil guy' wound up being my response to the test. I don't know if that was the right decision, or what sort of consequence that decision might have; I never had any further dreams related to that one.

 

[Neogaia777]

If we find ourselves entertaining or dwelling on wrong thoughts, then it has gone to far. I'm not saying it is a sin, but we can definitely stop it before that point. And that is what Jesus did.

But where do our thoughts come from that lead to temptation, I know I've had a few wrong, vile, raunchy, wicked, nasty, polluted thoughts just "fly" right by me and past me and through me, in my head, and then it's gone and I've had to train myself: I just didn't dwell on it, but it's nothing that "I" could have done or came up with on my own, of that I 'm certain, before these visions and voices started running through my head, I never knew of such grotesquires even existed, and how can you conjure up something out of no where, when you had no prior awareness?

God Bless!

 

[joshuanazar]

Sometimes its just evil spirits. Don't agree with them. Also, I like how you said that training your mind was something that "you" couldn't do. We can only have peace of mind through the king of peace.

 

[Grafted In]

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this subject and wonder, did He actually have to deal with every individual temptation known to man? But what about this from a woman's perspective.
I'm going to go waaaay out there and point out that Jesus' bride was yet to be taken from His side. That would not take place until the Roman soldier pierced His side.

 

[Grafted In]

Anyone care to comment?

 

[joshuanazar]

Anyone care to comment?

I don't know exactly what you mean by that last comment.

 

[Kutte]

Anyone care to comment?

Hi Grafted In,

While analyzing the issue of temptation I began to realize that we need to be tempted. Even Jesus was, as we all know.
One may ask why? The answers to me sounds simple enough. It is a tool for testing our character. Therefore we will continue to be faced with temptations regardless what anyone says, wishes or prays for.

Kutte