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Everyone involved in that specific situation.Everybody?
Maybe the member whose post is disapproved, the Conciliators & a staff member. But I don't see how this results in everybody learning.
Sorry.
for example, if we changed staff policy to allow all staff to post...but found that a number of staffers had some difficulty posting within the parameters.
That's our hope.First of all i think tall's question above is a good one. Under this new DR will staff protocol be relaxed and actually allow staff to participate in discussion of policy?
Staff was faced (and has been faced since i was a supervisor on Support) with the reality that Dr could not for several reasons (outlined by me above) continue as it was.Secondly i'm still not convinced that the consequence of this reform won't result in a stifling of discussion.
What do you suggest? I think we'll be looking for a marked change from:What systems are in place to check that the new DR is either working or not working? Are there policies or targets whose failure to meet would indicate a deficient system? If this is a trial then CF must have some way of determining whether the trial is a success or not - what are they?
Not working/old DR:
Personal attacks, at best guised thinly as a question.
Some Staff unable to participate
No member insight into why posts were deleted/edited
Once the thread went off it quickly snowballed
Too easy to get someone else's thread closed
Too many warnings/infractions as a result of rules violations
So hostile that many members and staff wouldn't go there (and so we missed out on their comments)
pitted staff against members, fostering an air of distrust.
Difficult to keep staff on this team because it's literally painful.
Not working - New DR:
carbon copy symptoms of the above.
Correct. It's still a factor in the success of the forum - not a big one, but still a factor.I thought you said that those staff who don't post in the parameters would no longer be permitted to post there. Why would that then lead to problems with the forum not "working"?
We're working on this. I hope not.Would they be different than member parameters?
What would you suggest?You also said if it was not working for the members/staff then it would be shut down and there would be no DR.
How will the members be consulted on whether it is working?
Correct. It's still a factor in the success of the forum - not a big one, but still a factor.
What would you suggest?
cool. This thread isn't open to make ya feel good. We want to hear what you have to say.You mentioned both so I thought you might have a plan. Since you don't, I might get back to you on any ideas.
I agree. I am concerned that y'all are focusing on my comment regarding staff posts. Absolutely they will be dealt with - that's being worked on currently. And if the policy is able to be enforced, I don't see that it will be an issue.As to the staff posts being a factor, this could be troubling. How can we have any control over what staff does? And if their posts are approved too how can there really be an issue? I thought that was the point of screening them? And especially if abusers are dealt with, I still don't see how this could be an issue.
Sure. but many people, including Erwin, want there to be a DR.What about those staff who have said they don't want a DR. If your only alternative is no DR, and you say that staff posts are a factor, does that not give them incentive then to play that card?
Because the majority of staff want members to be able to give their input. The issue was not the members giving input, it was all of the problems with DR.In case this sounds conspiratorial, wasn't one of the problems in the old system that you listed being able to derail or shut down a thread easily? Why will this not happen with the whole forum if some do not want it at all?
I'll keep that in mind.If the criteria is "not working" I think these need to be thought through to prevent intentional problems. Worst case scenarios are not fun to contemplate but it seems the old DR proved they can happen.
who would mod it?
That's not an answer to my question.
If Erwin wants there to be a DR then why are we being told that no DR is an option?
As to who would mod it if no one else will volunteer than I'll volunteer to head that team up.
You could sign me up as your first volunteer Ksen!
That's not an answer to my question.
If Erwin wants there to be a DR then why are we being told that no DR is an option?
As to who would mod it if no one else will volunteer than I'll volunteer to head that team up.
Hear, hear!My thanks to Constance for her active input here. I can't see why she is not given the position in full title.
Between now and June 11 the Execs are busy working through the backlog of issues and the DR reform is being hammered out. Right?
1. Why is this being done when Erwin has been away from CF since May 23?
2. Why is this being done when the Orthodox Affairs Director has been away since April 25?
3. Why do we still just have a Temporary Protestant Affairs Director since April 30th?
My thanks to Constance for her active input here. I can't see why she is not given the position in full title.
If Erwin wants there to be a DR then why are we being told that no DR is an option?
Of course Erwin would *ideally* want a forum where members and staff can discuss rules. I think it is safe to say that, in theory, everyone would want such a forum. However, there is a difference between what one ideally wants and the hard cold reality of implementing it.
Obviously, the Discuss Rules forum - as it has played out in reality - has had both plusses and minuses from anybody's perspective (although admitted what is a plus for one person may be a minus for another). And that, precisely, is the problem. For it to be a positive and constructive force for building a better CF, it needs to find ways of being plusses for more people and minuses for fewer people.
Therefore it behooves us to take a step back and re-visit ALL aspects of the forum and whether or not the ideal sought for is a viable possibility or just a pipe dream. We have to look at all options - even those that may be hard choices to make.
For even Erwin will acknowledge that his original intent has not worked out as well as he hoped for. Therefore he supports us in our efforts to revisit this forum and perhaps change it IF the changes will truly make it better and/or closer to his ideal.
So to answer your question: Yes Erwin would ideally want to have DR (he created it after all, right?), but even he knows it isn't working right and it needs to be tweaked and fixed at a minimum or radically altered as a viable option.
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