temper tantrum

[Tangnefedd]

Actually, Svt4Him, "a smack that they can feel well" is criminal assault when applied to a child under two or over twelve.

In which country?

 

[pmcleanj]

Canada, which is where MLE, Svt4Him, and I are all posting from.

 

[Melbelle]

I belive he is old enough to start learning right from wrong with a pop on the bottom.

 

[Melbelle]

Canada, which is where MLE, Svt4Him, and I are all posting from.

Good thing I aint from canada cus I belive that is a good age to start learning and in the bible it talks about spanking your child and I belive in it and I will spank my son with love I'll sit him down and explane it to him but it'll happen.

 

[Tangnefedd]

Good thing I aint from canada cus I belive that is a good age to start learning and in the bible it talks about spanking your child and I belive in it and I will spank my son with love I'll sit him down and explane it to him but it'll happen.

The Biblical way correcting is abusive in my opinion. I do believe in a smack if it is justified. But some of the practices in the Bible like using a rod to strike one's children are not right, and would land you in the criminal court in the UK.

 

[Melbelle]

The Biblical way correcting is abusive in my opinion. I do believe in a smack if it is justified. But some of the practices in the Bible like using a rod to strike one's children are not right, and would land you in the criminal court in the UK.

I don't belive its beating or wrong if its out of love and understanding...

 

[Tangnefedd]

I don't belive its beating or wrong if its out of love and understanding...

Beating is definitely wrong, how can anyone beat their child out of love and understanding? Beating is abuse, pure and simple, whereas a short sharp smack isn't!

 

[Melbelle]

Beating is definitely wrong, how can anyone beat their child out of love and understanding? Beating is abuse, pure and simple, whereas a short sharp smack isn't!

I didn't say I was going to beat my son I said I would spank him big differents

 

[Tangnefedd]

Sorry I misread your post, that will teach me to put my reading specs on!!!

 

[Melbelle]

what I said up there was its not beating if its out of love and understanding, if you sit your child down and explane to them why you are spanking them then No its not wrong but if you just take a built and beat them with it yes that is wrong, I was taught to sit my child down and explane whats going on and what they did that was wrong and explane to them that I love them very much and then paddel there behind but not beat and don't do it out of anger calm down first.

 

[pmcleanj]

Tangnefedd, it isn't the Biblical way of correcting that is abusive, but the traditional interpretation that associates "the Rod" with spanking that is abusive.

The Hebrew word "Rod" (shebet) has a range of meanings from a "twig" or "branch", to a surveyor's measuring-stick, a king's sceptre, or a shepherd's cudgel. It is that last that is meant, for example, in Psalm 23.4 "Thy Rod and Thy Staff, they comfort me". As in most Wisdom Literature, there are layers of meaning to this passage. At the surface level, as sheep, we are comforted to know God has the means (the cudgel) to defend us from predators. As people, we are comforted that God's kingly authority (the sceptre) to defend us from every sort of danger.

The Proverbs Rod passages have similar layers of meaning. Most of them mention the Rod without any context of "beating" at all. Proverbs 13:24
"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him", Proverbs 22:15 "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him", and Proverbs 29:15 "The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother" refer to discipline, which is primarily teaching. We are to teach our children with authority (the sceptre), holding them to clear standards (the measuring stick) and defending them from those who would do them harm (the cudgel).

The passage that does mention "beating", Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death." is clearly metaphorical, since cudgelling a young man (na'ar -- the Hebrew word means youths, not in any way toddlers!) mnay indeed kill him. We've seen so many Hollywood movies that suggest you can beat a person with a base-ball bat and have him walk away; but that only works if you're Clint Eastwood! This passage means, again, to apply authority and standards -- relentlessly and forcefully!

And consistency! "Rod" is also used in Proverbs as a metaphor for something that is inflexible or unyielding. As Misty Evening said, one can comfort and sympathize with a tantrumming child without ever changing one's "no" to a "yes". To fail to use the Rod of consistency in tantrum situations is to burden your child with the additional stress of not being able to count on you to stand firm. And it teaches tantrums as a learned behaviour rather than as the normal melt-down that all toddlers suffer.

The traditional interpretation of the Rod passages is a man-made interpretation. The actual words of Scripture don't support the way many choose to apply the passages: for all the variety of meanings of "shebet", the words "paddle", "wooden spoon" and "fly-swatter" are not among them (and off topic, they and all other implements are also illegal in Canada). Worse, insisting on this one unfounded interpretation closes too us the wide layered range of useful wisdom that *can* be found in the Rod passages!

And part of the Biblical teaching is that we are to obey the secular authorities who are set over us (Romans 13:1 "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities") -- which includes the criminal laws that forbid violent assault and child abuse as defined by our courts and legislation. It is a sad handicap to our Christian witness, that Christians are now seen by the world as needing to have laws to prevent them from assaulting their own children. But the laws stand, and to follow the Bible we must obey those laws.

 

[Melbelle]

Tangnefedd, it isn't the Biblical way of correcting that is abusive, but the traditional interpretation that associates "the Rod" with spanking that is abusive.

The Hebrew word "Rod" (shebet) has a range of meanings from a "twig" or "branch", to a surveyor's measuring-stick, a king's sceptre, or a shepherd's cudgel. It is that last that is meant, for example, in Psalm 23.4 "Thy Rod and Thy Staff, they comfort me". As in most Wisdom Literature, there are layers of meaning to this passage. At the surface level, as sheep, we are comforted to know God has the means (the cudgel) to defend us from predators. As people, we are comforted that God's kingly authority (the sceptre) to defend us from every sort of danger.

The Proverbs Rod passages have similar layers of meaning. Most of them mention the Rod without any context of "beating" at all. Proverbs 13:24
"He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him", Proverbs 22:15 "Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him", and Proverbs 29:15 "The rod of correction imparts wisdom, but a child left to himself disgraces his mother" refer to discipline, which is primarily teaching. We are to teach our children with authority (the sceptre), holding them to clear standards (the measuring stick) and defending them from those who would do them harm (the cudgel).

The passage that does mention "beating", Proverbs 23:13-14 "Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death." is clearly metaphorical, since cudgelling a young man (na'ar -- the Hebrew word means youths, not in any way toddlers!) mnay indeed kill him. We've seen so many Hollywood movies that suggest you can beat a person with a base-ball bat and have him walk away; but that only works if you're Clint Eastwood! This passage means, again, to apply authority and standards -- relentlessly and forcefully!

And consistency! "Rod" is also used in Proverbs as a metaphor for something that is inflexible or unyielding. As Misty Evening said, one can comfort and sympathize with a tantrumming child without ever changing one's "no" to a "yes". To fail to use the Rod of consistency in tantrum situations is to burden your child with the additional stress of not being able to count on you to stand firm. And it teaches tantrums as a learned behaviour rather than as the normal melt-down that all toddlers suffer.

The traditional interpretation of the Rod passages is a man-made interpretation. The actual words of Scripture don't support the way many choose to apply the passages: for all the variety of meanings of "shebet", the words "paddle", "wooden spoon" and "fly-swatter" are not among them (and off topic, they and all other implements are also illegal in Canada). Worse, insisting on this one unfounded interpretation closes too us the wide layered range of useful wisdom that *can* be found in the Rod passages!

And part of the Biblical teaching is that we are to obey the secular authorities who are set over us (Romans 13:1 "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities") -- which includes the criminal laws that forbid violent assault and child abuse as defined by our courts and legislation. It is a sad handicap to our Christian witness, that Christians are now seen by the world as needing to have laws to prevent them from assaulting their own children. But the laws stand, and to follow the Bible we must obey those laws.

NO BEATING IS ABUSIVE I SAID SIT THEM DOW AND EXPLAING THAT WHAT THEY DID WAS WRONG AND THEN EXPLANE TO THEM THAT YOU LOVE THEM BUT TELL THEM YOU HAVE TO PUNISH THEM AND SOME THINGS DESERVE MORE THEN A SPANKING WHAT I MEAN LIKE GROUNDING OR SOMETHING IN THAT NATURAL BUT MY SON WILL BE SPANKED BUT NOT OUT OF ANGER SPANKING OUT OF ANGER IS A SIN AND IS CONSIDER BEATING TO ME...