Telling a pastor what to do?

[AngelAmidala]

As some of the staff members know, I've been asking for prayers for my church. Some things are going on in the church that are just not very God-centered.

The latest of which was the appointment of this guy as head of our worship committee. In talks with my pastor, we're not sure if this guy is entirely a Christian. And then he was just put on the committee and nominated (though he thinks he was voted in) as the new chair.

My pastor had a meeting with him yesterday, and basically he felt that the role of the worship committee was to tell the pastor what to do, and what the church's needs were, and how he/she should preach, teach, etc..

Anyway, she's scheduled to meet with him again on Sunday and asked if I would be there, as the former worship committee chairperson.

When I go, I want to be prepared.

So what I wanted to know is...in your churches....is there anyone in particular that tells your pastor what to do? Is it a committee, or something higher up?

Please let me know what denomination or church you go to so that I know what types of churches I'm learning about.

If you have any questions, please let me know!

 

[Bulldog]

for you and your church.

 

[JVAC]

It is very different in many different churches. However, in the mainline protestant churches it is usually the Pastor/Priest/Presbyter who decides how the liturgy is set, and this must be in line with the greater church, ie Bishops and Synod Councils. There is no one lay person who could or should (maybe the congregation president may have that power or a deacon) tell the Priest/Pastor/Presbyter how to run the liturgy in his church. After all the Priest/Pastor/Presbyter was the one who went to seminary.

This man probably has a lot of ideas, but they aren't gospel truth and he should remain subordinate to his Presbyter, Council and Bishop.

 

[Jim B]

Sounds like a difficult person with a controlling personality. I'm a pastor and I have one in my church too. Have you considered just shooting him?



Just kidding!
Sort of.

Jim
\o/

 

[clinzey]

Sounds like a difficult person with a controlling personality. I'm a pastor and I have one in my church too. Have you considered just shooting him?



Just kidding!
Sort of.

Jim
\o/

Jim, it sounds like you've been in the ministry a while . As the son of a pastor and pastor myself I have also seen this thing way too much. To answer AngelAmidala, I'm from an Assemblies of God church, and our pastors have the authority to make their own decisions. If someone needs to instruct or discipline the pastor, then our presbyter (in charge of regions, etc.) will do that. It doesn't often go beyond that. It just sounds like your average, pushy, lay-leader.

 

[Angeldove97]

Well as far as I know, the church I attend does have a committee, yet the Pastor is head of that committee. What the committee does is help plan events, talk about different issues in the church and the community, and also fund raising. I don't believe that any person head of the committee should ever tell the Pastor what to do especially since it's God's church. Yet at the same time, the committee may step in if the Pastor has been misleading his congregation. I always always taught that the Pastor is head of the church. idk just my ideas ~Angel

 

[Greeter]

In prayer for you and your church.

 

[seebs]

Well, we don't have pastors, so I can't help you from my direct experience. My mother-in-law was once involved in removing a pastor from a Presbyterian church, for conduct inappropriate to his role. However, this was outright removal; it wasn't that they questioned his behavior, it was that his behavior was unacceptable.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I would suggest you listen to this person. Try to put away your preconceived ideas of what you think he said before and what you think he wants, and listen. Listen to the pastor, too. Try to remain as objective as possible.

Be ready to inform this new person of how the worship committee has operated in the past. For example, have you ever had any disagreements with the pastor? Have you made suggestions to her? Did you negotiate any disagreements? Or did you just implement what the pastor asked for? A new person may well have assumptions about what a particular role in a church means, based on their experience in another church that operated a different way. He may not have any idea of the role this committee has had in your church. I can tell you from experience that I have stepped on toes coming into a new church and assuming things are run there like in other churches I had attended.

Assuming that everyone has good motives, but there is some kind of misunderstanding that has led to hurt feelings is a good posture from which to begin. It tends to calm everybody, rather than inflaming a situation.

 

[Serapha]

As some of the staff members know, I've been asking for prayers for my church. Some things are going on in the church that are just not very God-centered.

The latest of which was the appointment of this guy as head of our worship committee. In talks with my pastor, we're not sure if this guy is entirely a Christian. And then he was just put on the committee and nominated (though he thinks he was voted in) as the new chair.

My pastor had a meeting with him yesterday, and basically he felt that the role of the worship committee was to tell the pastor what to do, and what the church's needs were, and how he/she should preach, teach, etc..

Anyway, she's scheduled to meet with him again on Sunday and asked if I would be there, as the former worship committee chairperson.

When I go, I want to be prepared.

So what I wanted to know is...in your churches....is there anyone in particular that tells your pastor what to do? Is it a committee, or something higher up?

Please let me know what denomination or church you go to so that I know what types of churches I'm learning about.

If you have any questions, please let me know!

Hi there!





First, what I know... then what I know...


What I know #1

Your profile reads that your denominatin is United Methodist. As such, there are guidelines for "how to" do things within the stucture of the church.


From the Constitution....

"The organization of each unit in the church is carefully spelled out in the Book of Discipline. All members are at least acquainted with the local church. "


"....Checks and balances are built into all aspects of church life."

I think what you need to read is on the following link (It appears to be coyrighted, so I won't print it here)

http://www.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=2627


I would note these points.

"In conducting its work, the committee shall identify and clarify its values for ministry. It shall engage in biblical and theological reflections on the mission of the church, the primary task, and ministries of the local church."

and it does identify that the committee is to "confer with" and "to counsel" the pastor.

now...


What I know #2...


If your pastor is not working for and reporting to a Jewish Carpenter, then your church is already in trouble.

I will pray for you, your church, and more importantly for your pastor, and I will pray that the crucifixion isn't public.


~serapha~

 

[JMRE5150]

It is very different in many different churches. However, in the mainline protestant churches it is usually the Pastor/Priest/Presbyter who decides how the liturgy is set, and this must be in line with the greater church, ie Bishops and Synod Councils. There is no one lay person who could or should (maybe the congregation president may have that power or a deacon) tell the Priest/Pastor/Presbyter how to run the liturgy in his church. After all the Priest/Pastor/Presbyter was the one who went to seminary.

This man probably has a lot of ideas, but they aren't gospel truth and he should remain subordinate to his Presbyter, Council and Bishop.

I am wholeheartedly agreeing with JVAC on this. I also am a Lutheran (ELCA), and our Pastor(s) both are the authority who decides our weekly liturgies. They answer to the Bishops/Council of the ELCA. Period. My Pastors would laugh at me hysterically if I said "Hey Pastor, lets word next weeks Lenten service like this"...

I would be very concerned about allowing non-formal theologically educated members (elected or not) dictate to a learnt man of God what should or shouldn't be said. That can be dangerous, and opens up the doorway to possible personal interpretations of the Word.

Then again, what I just listed in the above paragraph is the eternal agruement between non-denom churches and denom-affiliated churches, so take that for what its worth.

I will pray for you and your church, my friend. God Bless all of you.

 

[Jaywalk]

Hmm. Do you have a copy of Well Intentioned Dragons lying around?

Pastors are in something of an awkward position to begin with. They're supposed to be the leaders, yet they are hired (and fired) by the people they lead. And sometimes the ones they are leading decide that the pastor is not doing what God wants them to and they decide to "fix" the problem. It's part of what can make church fights such ugly things.

Keep in mind that this person is probably trying to be helpful, even if it doesn't look like it to you. Try to keep the dialog away from open confrontation and focus on the issues. If possible, see if you can dig up a document which explains the responsibilities of the worship committee. I suspect your pastor can probably handle himself well enough in these situations so let him take the lead and provide support where appropriate.

 

[ChrisB]

I belong to an Evangelical Free Church. Services are often led by lay members who have considerable discretion in choosing hymns/worship songs/prayers etc. Having said that the pastor chooses who leads so he has indirect influence there.

The pastor is responsible ultimately to the members and more directly to the elders (he is an ex-officio member) but I believe 99% of decisions at elders meetings are taken by agreement without a vote.

 

[The Midge]

This sounds like a prime case where the need to stop gossip as soon as it starts is paramount.

As for pasters the are servants, ministers and overseers. There is a time to listen, a time to seek God and a time to lead. I don't envy your position. for you all.

 

[Isaiah 53]

As some of the staff members know, I've been asking for prayers for my church. Some things are going on in the church that are just not very God-centered.

The latest of which was the appointment of this guy as head of our worship committee. In talks with my pastor, we're not sure if this guy is entirely a Christian. And then he was just put on the committee and nominated (though he thinks he was voted in) as the new chair.

My pastor had a meeting with him yesterday, and basically he felt that the role of the worship committee was to tell the pastor what to do, and what the church's needs were, and how he/she should preach, teach, etc..

Anyway, she's scheduled to meet with him again on Sunday and asked if I would be there, as the former worship committee chairperson.

When I go, I want to be prepared.

So what I wanted to know is...in your churches....is there anyone in particular that tells your pastor what to do? Is it a committee, or something higher up?

Please let me know what denomination or church you go to so that I know what types of churches I'm learning about.

If you have any questions, please let me know!

Yes God!!

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

 

[Knight]

Our church is non-denominational. We are governed by two offices. Elders and Deacons. The elders govern the church as a whole and meet the spiritual needs of the body while deacons attend to the physical needs.

Our current staff pastors are also elders.

 

[UberLutheran]

It's really hard to tell what's going on with one viewpoint coming from one person (though I don't doubt your objectivity).

In the course of what I do (music minister for an ELCA church), I plan out the music for the entire year, write (at least) two cantatas, develop liturgy and set it to music, etc. I'm given a general framework to work in, and then I set out developing the music and liturgy to go with it.

One of the things I hate doing is having to develop music and liturgy myself, without input from other people. If I don't have the input from other people, it means I end up doing a staggering amount of work -- conceiving the thing, finding the Scripture to go with it, writing the thing, setting it to music, setting the incidental music to go with the music I've written, etc. etc. etc. It's MUCH easier for me when I have guidance from the pastor, and can jointly develop ideas with the music committee, the liturgy committee, the church council, etc. They don't tell me (or the pastor) WHAT to do -- but they do help me develop ideas and give me feedback, which I very much appreciate.

Just because the new guy is the head of the worship committee does not that mean he IS the worship committee. Likewise, just because the pastor is the spiritual director of the church does not mean he/she would want to be completely responsible for every single aspect of running the church or church worship. That's why we have committees.

Consider too: my parish has 250 people in it, and that keeps me (and the pastor) plenty busy. If your church is one of the large mega-churches, your pastor might even depend on people to give him/her information and feedback your pastor needs to be able to do his/her job!

Anyway, that's my observation -- as one who works in ministry. Keep an open mind.

As some of the staff members know, I've been asking for prayers for my church. Some things are going on in the church that are just not very God-centered.

The latest of which was the appointment of this guy as head of our worship committee. In talks with my pastor, we're not sure if this guy is entirely a Christian. And then he was just put on the committee and nominated (though he thinks he was voted in) as the new chair.

My pastor had a meeting with him yesterday, and basically he felt that the role of the worship committee was to tell the pastor what to do, and what the church's needs were, and how he/she should preach, teach, etc..

Anyway, she's scheduled to meet with him again on Sunday and asked if I would be there, as the former worship committee chairperson.

When I go, I want to be prepared.

So what I wanted to know is...in your churches....is there anyone in particular that tells your pastor what to do? Is it a committee, or something higher up?

Please let me know what denomination or church you go to so that I know what types of churches I'm learning about.

If you have any questions, please let me know!

 

[Pastor_Benjamin]

As christians we should be able to sit down and work out the problem no matter what it is. We are not perfect thats why dialog between the pastor and the various commitees of the church are so important. We all need to be on the same sheet of music which is the worshipping of Christ Amen.