Tehillim 22

[RobSav]

.....Is a big controversy. Many people (primarily Christians) use Tehillim 22 as a Messianic Chapter. The problem rests in verse 16:

Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet.

The traditional Tanakh says "Like the Lion" and is translated as such in the CJB, with only a footnote to the other translation "They have Pierced".

This Anti-Missionary Website goes so far as to accuse Christians (Jews for Jesus) of changing the bible because of Tehillim 22: http://www.outreachjudaism.org
(Note that most of it's arguements are based on the front end translation of both the arguement and a misrepresentation of the beliefs. "Jews for Jesus" is a commendable but not compatible with Messianics, completely. Their viewpoints are not placed in an arguementative fashion, rather in a simplistic viewpoint. I have found it's doctrine as more of a Hebraic Christian viewpoint.) Either way, the Rabbi who runs the website seems to make lots of money selling his tapes; and doesn't cover Joel's infamous prophecy about Ruach HaKodesh

 

[SonWorshipper]

I wont' even comment on those AM's right now as a recent run in is still too fresh in my mind ( at the conference).

If I do remember correctly the term "dogs" was used for the heathen , in this case I would think it would mean the romans.

Here is another version:

9 'Let him commit himself unto the LORD! let Him rescue him; let Him deliver him, seeing He delighteth in him.'
י כִּי-אַתָּה גֹחִי מִבָּטֶן; מַבְטִיחִי, עַל-שְׁדֵי אִמִּי. 10 For Thou art He that took me out of the womb; Thou madest me trust when I was upon my mother's breasts.
יא עָלֶיךָ, הָשְׁלַכְתִּי מֵרָחֶם; מִבֶּטֶן אִמִּי, אֵלִי אָתָּה. 11 Upon Thee I have been cast from my birth; Thou art my God from my mother's womb.
יב אַל-תִּרְחַק מִמֶּנִּי, כִּי-צָרָה קְרוֹבָה: כִּי-אֵין עוֹזֵר. 12 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
יג סְבָבוּנִי, פָּרִים רַבִּים; אַבִּירֵי בָשָׁן כִּתְּרוּנִי. 13 Many bulls have encompassed me; strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
יד פָּצוּ עָלַי פִּיהֶם; אַרְיֵה, טֹרֵף וְשֹׁאֵג. 14 They open wide their mouth against me, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
טו כַּמַּיִם נִשְׁפַּכְתִּי-- וְהִתְפָּרְדוּ, כָּל-עַצְמוֹתָי:
הָיָה לִבִּי, כַּדּוֹנָג; נָמֵס, בְּתוֹךְ מֵעָי. 15 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; {N}
my heart is become like wax; it is melted in mine inmost parts.
טז יָבֵשׁ כַּחֶרֶשׂ, כֹּחִי, וּלְשׁוֹנִי, מֻדְבָּק מַלְקוֹחָי; וְלַעֲפַר-מָוֶת תִּשְׁפְּתֵנִי. 16 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my throat; and Thou layest me in the dust of death.
יז כִּי סְבָבוּנִי, כְּלָבִים: עֲדַת מְרֵעִים, הִקִּיפוּנִי; כָּאֲרִי, יָדַי וְרַגְלָי. 17 For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.
יח אֲסַפֵּר כָּל-עַצְמוֹתָי; הֵמָּה יַבִּיטוּ, יִרְאוּ-בִי. 18 I may count all my bones; they look and gloat over me.
יט יְחַלְּקוּ בְגָדַי לָהֶם; וְעַל-לְבוּשִׁי, יַפִּילוּ גוֹרָל. 19 They part my garments among them, and for my vesture do they cast lots.
כ וְאַתָּה יְהוָה, אַל-תִּרְחָק; אֱיָלוּתִי, לְעֶזְרָתִי חוּשָׁה. 20 But Thou, O LORD, be not far off; O Thou my strength, hasten to help me.
כא הַצִּילָה מֵחֶרֶב נַפְשִׁי; מִיַּד-כֶּלֶב, יְחִידָתִי. 21 Deliver my soul from the sword; mine only one from the power of the dog.
From: According to the Masoretic Text

and the JPS 1917 Edition

Edited to add link

 

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

.....Is a big controversy. Many people (primarily Christians) use Tehillim 22 as a Messianic Chapter. The problem rests in verse 16:

The traditional Tanakh says "Like the Lion" and is translated as such in the CJB, with only a footnote to the other translation "They have Pierced".

This Anti-Missionary Website goes so far as to accuse Christians (Jews for Jesus) of changing the bible because of Tehillim 22: http://www.outreachjudaism.org
(Note that most of it's arguements are based on the front end translation of both the arguement and a misrepresentation of the beliefs. "Jews for Jesus" is a commendable but not compatible with Messianics, completely. Their viewpoints are not placed in an arguementative fashion, rather in a simplistic viewpoint. I have found it's doctrine as more of a Hebraic Christian viewpoint.) Either way, the Rabbi who runs the website seems to make lots of money selling his tapes; and doesn't cover Joel's infamous prophecy about Ruach HaKodesh

I reckon I am glad I came across a Messianic Website that states "We aren't affiliated with Jews for Jesus" because from what I read "Jews for Jesus" are really a Christian based front which is there to CONVERT Jews into Christianity. When I hear Messianic Judaism, I think of what the Messiah really was teaching, not what Gentiles turned it into(Christianity without Jewishness).
I can see where Messianic Judaism gets a bad name "Jews for Jesus"

May the peace that transcends all understanding be with you,

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[SonWorshipper]

Jews for Jesus were at the Messiah conference, actually that is how I came to learn about the Messianic Movement about 15 years ago. I still have two books that they publish, one is full of testemonies and is a real eye opener.

I do believe that they have their place, Jewish believers in a Christian church is just one more way to breach the gap, to tear down the wall of partition that the early ( not earliest) church put into place.

 

[Shamash Of Yeshua]

I didn't hear of Messianic Judaism from JFJ. I heard it from a Messianic Believer. I would say from their practices they have also put up a New Wall, which to me gives what I now believe in a bad name. That is my opinion what I am seeing from all the reading I have been doing.

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[Ruhama]

Here is the Septuagint version of verse 17:

hoti ekuklosan me kunes polloi
sunagoge ponereuomenon perieschon me,
oruxan cheiras mou kai podas.

"For many dogs have encircled me,
an evil assembly (synagogue) has surrounded me,
has dug through (orusso = dig, quarry, bury, burrow) my hands and feet."

Septuagint as you know was written couple centuries before Christianity. So I think that's a hollow argument they're using.