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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

"Teaching others a lesson"

Catherineanne

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Electric Sceptic said:
That's still how I FEEL, but not necessarily how I think, if you see the difference. I'm going to have to think on this some more.

There is a reason why the law is made by people who are not emotionally involved with a particular situation. Any one of us, when personally involved with an issue, will want more revenge, and more retribution, than society as a whole will think reasonable. The feelings described are understandable; those I do not condemn. But what was done as a result is appalling.

Yours is a civilised nation, and it does have a justice system and a police force. Therefore, this is not about feelings. It is about what is legal and what is not.

It is not legal to take the law into our hands and beat people up, particularly if the redress of the law has not even been tried.

This is not about evoking emotions to the point where we all bay for blood. That is not civilised behaviour, and it only serves to cloud the issue. The issue is, are we all subject to the law, or are some of us above it. The only view I can personally take is that nobody is above the law, however self righteous they may claim to feel about beating up an alleged (and yet, sorry to say, still legally innocent, because not yet convicted) 'rapist'.

This is not about beating someone up. This is about a premeditated act, taking the place of judge, jury and executioner, and then complaining because the legal system did not do the same. Without even giving it a chance. I can see no reason whatever for defending any part of this behaviour.
 
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Corey

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psychedelicist said:
Hopefully none of you will report this post to the police or anything, it was over a year ago as well so I figure it might be safe to talk about it.

While I empathize...and possibly might have done this myself...it is a violation of the law. You'd have been better off calling the cops...

But there is a damned good satisfaction of beating the stuffing out of someone like that...

Editted to add: also...Psych is probably free of prosecution. The guy would have to press charges. At which point, questions start getting asked. very uncomfortable questions that lead to certain admissions.

Again...this was a violation of the law. You have been better off tipping the cops off to this guy and his dealer.
 
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psychedelicist

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Do you think the beating will be enough of a dis-incentive to have a >40% chance of stopping him from doing it again ? (Since you estimated jail gave him 60% chance of re-offending). If you know someone who is friends with a cop, I would actually still try and get the guy put away. Some 'I heard' kind of stuff, and a female cop stings him.

We've kept an eye on him and so far as we can tell, he rarely even goes to clubs anymore, much less buys date rape drugs. That's because we also spread the word about him being a rapist to the club owner at the club we were at, and he says he's made sure the guy doesn't get in, but apparently he hasn't even gone back since (or the owner isn't keeping a good eye, I don't know). Maybe he took the point a little to well. But what can you do?

You are rationalising. I don't see how increasing the number of criminals on the streets by becoming one yourself makes the world a better place for anyone. Do you seriously for one moment think that is the way forward for the world; a descent into anarchy and lynch law? God help us all!

First of all serious anarchy would be nothing like this situation. It's not 'screw da rules, do whatever you want'. But that's off topic. Yes as a matter of fact I think that me and my friend have managed to get the point not to rape through to him. It's too bad we had to go as far as we did, but there's 1 less rapist in the world, and it's not as if I'd go around beating the hell out of anyone who disagrees with me, so as far as I'm concerned, it's one less dangerous rapist in the world. You can call me a criminal but a one-time assault is different from serial raping. One crime has (as far as we can see) prevented more, possibly many more, future rapes. If that's worth commiting one lesser criminal act so be it.


You are not interested in the legal system, or in justice. You are only interested in revenge.

Don't claim to know my motives. I did want revenge, yes, but we would have left it at a voice message on his cell phone if we thought it would have dissuaded him from raping again. It was only when we realized he was not stopping and would likely try to rape again that we did what we did. Perhaps not justice, but prevention, and as far as I'm concerned that's enough for me.

Any better suggestions? Yes, if you were truly interested in justice, take a law degree, and change the system for the better from the inside. And if that doesn't work, stand as a political candidate and make it happen that way.

Well see, some of us have this a record of our own that's gonna make it a bit hard for us to do that. I don't want to attempt to bring justice to every criminal, just the ones I know I can deal with effectively. Getting myself involved in politics would, IMO, be a waste of my time and theirs.

I don't know what things are like where you live, but here, like I have said, it's futile to try and do things by way of the legal system. I have talked to numerous cops, lawyers, etc. to know this. It is not just my speculation, but the firsthand experience of countless others. Not only would getting myself involved be of extremely little help, but trying to reform something would be a waste of time altogether. It's not about justice anymore even in the legal system.

Like I said I don't want to go on a 'justice spree' against all rapists, as I have already explained my motives were purely my own and not driven by the concept of true justice or something as silly as that. Only by what I thought was the most effective and necessary thing to do.
 
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benjdm

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psychedelicist said:
We've kept an eye on him and so far as we can tell, he rarely even goes to clubs anymore, much less buys date rape drugs. That's because we also spread the word about him being a rapist to the club owner at the club we were at, and he says he's made sure the guy doesn't get in, but apparently he hasn't even gone back since (or the owner isn't keeping a good eye, I don't know). Maybe he took the point a little to well. But what can you do?
In that case, all I can say is 'Well done.' You seem to have found a pretty good response to an ugly situation.

:thumbsup:
 
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