Teachers

[Steezie]

I had to go pick up my niece today (Again) from school. She got in trouble (Again).

She mouthed off to one of her teachers. Normally I would encourage her to atleast keep a semi low profile in class.

But in this case I had a different opinion, the teacher in question is a woman I had in high school. English. In short, shes insane. Shes a seriously whacked out human being.

We were reading Ender's Game and for those of you who havent read it, it involves the training of boys in a future society. The boys are trained in a special military school and some of the book involves them running around in a barracks style setting and mentions nudity once or twice. Nothing graphic. She brought it up and said "I dont know why he mentions young boys so much, its probably because he's Mormon." We all kinda looked at each other like "What the hell is she talking about?"

Shes got a LOT wrong with her and is in general a horrible teacher. My niece mouthed off by protesting when she recieved a failing grade on an assignment for an arbitrary reason. She got mad because my niece stood up to her.

My question is this. Do you think that a student (or group thereof) should stand up to a teacher who has delusions of thier own teaching ability or who mis-uses thier authority?

 

[katautumn]

There are great teachers out there and there are some not-so-great teachers out there. I had an art teacher in junior high who came right out and told us that she hated us and hated teaching, and how she was only doing it because she couldn't get a job as a college art professor. Suffice it to say, we didn't receive the level of education we deserved nor did she make the classroom a very pleasant environment.

When a teacher says or does something unfair or appears to single a student out and pick on them in front of the class, I think it is most prudent for the child to tell their parents first. I'm not one for blatant disrespect of elders, even if the elder is in the wrong. If a parent/teacher conference doesn't settle the problem, then the student along with parents should approach the school principal, vice-principal or guidance counselor to address the situation. If the situation persists after that, then a request should be made to have the student transferred to another class. I don't condone a student "raising up" in the classroom. I'm not saying it's a horrible thing, if the student is being mistreated, but it's not the most effective course of action either. Face it, school administrators view students as just a bunch of hot-headed, foul mouthed, bad tempered, disrespectful kids anyway. Why prove them right by pitching a fit and defying the teacher in the classroom? Sitting down with the parents is much more mature and provides a better chance that the higher-ups at the school will hear out the concerns and address them.

 

[quatona]

I had to go pick up my niece today (Again) from school. She got in trouble (Again).

She mouthed off to one of her teachers. Normally I would encourage her to atleast keep a semi low profile in class.

But in this case I had a different opinion, the teacher in question is a woman I had in high school. English. In short, shes insane. Shes a seriously whacked out human being.

We were reading Ender's Game and for those of you who havent read it, it involves the training of boys in a future society. The boys are trained in a special military school and some of the book involves them running around in a barracks style setting and mentions nudity once or twice. Nothing graphic. She brought it up and said "I dont know why he mentions young boys so much, its probably because he's Mormon." We all kinda looked at each other like "What the hell is she talking about?"

Shes got a LOT wrong with her and is in general a horrible teacher. My niece mouthed off by protesting when she recieved a failing grade on an assignment for an arbitrary reason. She got mad because my niece stood up to her.

My question is this. Do you think that a student (or group thereof) should stand up to a teacher who has delusions of thier own teaching ability or who mis-uses thier authority?

I think that it´s a good idea to critically examine what a teacher says in any case.
I do not, however, think that terminology like "seriously whacked out human being", "insane", "got a lot wrong with her, "horrible teacher" exactly are the products I would expect from the sort of critical examination I am thinking of.
If I were you I would encourage my niece to word her criticism in a substantiated and objective manner, instead of "mouthing off".
The chances that a person considers criticism of her methods are pretty low if this criticism comes as questioning and accusing the entire person.

Whilst if you indeed have evidence for this teacher to be "insane", I would recommend you to notify the authorities.

 

[Lynden1000]

If you think there are genuine problems with this teacher, then the appropriate course of action is to talk with the principal and the school board.

 

[UntakenName]

There is nothing wrong with standing up to a bad teacher.

 

[Robinsegg]

Well, I was taught to respect my elders. So, I would have waited until after class, explained my confusion and asked for an answer. If I'd gotten none (or an unsatisfactory one), I'd have spoken to my parents, who would have tried speaking with her for me. My parents were pretty good with teachers (were well known in the PTA, etc) and it never went farther than that.

All that said, there were times I kept my mouth shut (not even telling my parents), and I was well-liked by the teachers since I was well-behaved and respectful towards them.

Does your neice live with you (do you have guardianship)? If so, you have the option of meeting with the teacher yourself to have a rational conversation (though you seem pretty emotionally charged about this woman, and might not be able to do that). If you do, let her know that "mouthing off", esp. in front of the class, isn't acceptable and you're dealing with that issue at home. Then, you could ask why neice got the grade she did, and what could be done to
1. improve her grade and
2. improve the relationship between teacher and student.

Rachel

 

[Mskedi]

As others have said, there's nothing wrong with standing up to a teacher, but there is definitely something wrong with mouthing off to a teacher, regardless of who is at fault. For one thing, the student will be the one in trouble at that point, and that defeats the purpose. Second, it will not accomplish the goal (finding out what the student's real grade should be).

All she has to do is go to her counselor (and the counselor, in most schools, is a better person to turn to than the administrators since they work as student-advocates whereas administrators largely work as teacher support) and explain her concern. She would say, for example, "I have done all of my work, and as you can see in my notebook, I've earned good marks on them. I'm not sure why I have a D."

Then the counselor would ask the teacher for proof of the student's grade. If the teacher can provide proof, then the mystery is gone. If the teacher can't, an investigation into the issue will ensue and the student won't be in any trouble at all.

I've had good and bad teachers, and what I've found is that they all react better to calm discussions than outbursts.

 

[Allister]

Tangent: I remember my tutorial teacher in secondary school. she was a demon, very authoritarian and sometimes spiteful. my personality naturally rebels against authortarian constraints... the problem though was she could lip read. i didnt stand a chance!!!

 

[amused]

hahahaha Allister that was fuuuuuuuny!

Anyway yeah mouthing off to a teacher regardless of who they are and what they are like is not a wise thing. But standing up to a teacher respectfully when something is that blatantly wrong should be done.

I use the scriptures about how to deal with a brother who has wronged you. If they dont listen go to the leaders etc. I have done that in the school my boys go to. If I think the kids have been wronged I go to the source first and suss it out with them, if they dont listen I take it to the principle.

If ever my kids get an unfair grade on a assignment (which hasnt happened yet) I would take it to the teacher and ask them to explain and if I am not happy with it I would take it to the principle and ask them to remark it in front of me and explain too. I would also discuss what went on and try and get it sorted.

Definatley no teacher who is like that should get away with horribleness. Even after saying that I have been in some nightmare classes which have sent teachers away crying. There is only so much a teacher can take before they snap. Its a very stressful job, it takes a very special person to be able to teach well and reach kids where they are at.

cheers

 

[RavenPoe]

Always question authority, but do not challenge authority unless it is wrong or refusing to answer.

Was your neice truly mouthing off or did this teacher merely construe any questioning of their authority as "mouthing off"? I do not think she should truly challenge the teacher directly, but by all means has the right to question her.

I empathize - I had a teacher with Alzheimer's when I was in school. She announced it to the class - and it was so hard to learn anything from her as her brain just flitted about all the time. One's grade was mostly based on just doing the assignments.

Needless to say I didn't pass that class - and the school wasn't much help to me even though I was pulling in decent grades in all my other classes.

 

[Mjonller]

Yes it is ok to do so when the teacher is doing something bad. I am currently a high school junior, and my speech teacher is insulting atheism, and over exerting her authority all the time. When individual teachers try to inforce thier policies or morals, who is there to support you besides yourself? The other students who do not realise what the teacher is doing. So I say, Speak out! You have a right to do so!

 

[rowena]

The school system I graduated from was known for its massive amounts of bad teachers, and I had to stand up for myself against the staff several times. I don't have any idea what your neice did, but while I would have never been "You bleep bleep bleep!", I had no problem and see nothing wrong with something along the lines of "I think your wrong and this is why (fill in reason here). Now if something isn't done about this situation, I will take it to whoever I need to take it too in order to get something done, even if that means calling the ACLU or some other outside body." (And yes, I had to threaten my school with a lawsuit several times.)

Either the student or their parents/guardians going to some higher up staff member often times actually won't accomplish anything. Once a teacher has tenure its amazingly hard to not only fire them but warn them about their behavior as there are stringent guidelines that must be met. If they aren't then the teachers union can bring action against the school district. Often times the school district just doesn't care enough to do anything about one of their staff. If the teacher is as bad as it sounds, and the school won't do anything, then take it up with a lawyer. Its amazing what happens when a school district thinks that they might have some negative publicity.

 

[Isis-Astoroth]

If a child has a problem with a teacher then they should a senior teacher about it, not mouth off the teacher because generally it will make it a hell of a lot worse for them. Otherwise, they should get a parent to phone the school and ask to talk to the teacher. One year I was at school we had to do musical performances that would be graded out of 10. The music teacher gave anybody who used a backing track (even without words...generally used by those who sang) a 5, regardless that he had never done so in a previous year, and ignoring the actual performance itself. Half my class confronted him, and instead of anything getting done about the grades, the teacher complained to a senior teacher and everyone who confronted him got a telling off from their head of year and a detention. Confrontation by the student doesn't work with many teachers, I really wouldn't suggest it.