Teacher Resigns After Parent Complains Pride Flag Is "Personal Agenda"

[muichimotsu]

Missouri teacher resigns after school district ordered him to remove Pride flag from classroom

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/education/article254077203.html

No joke, teacher in Missouri resigned after they were threatened with firing if they continued to hang a rainbow flag in their classroom and voiced a message of support to the students. Public school, mind you, and the teacher didn't mention sexuality or gender in the class (because it was speech/debate, theater and world mythology that the teacher was involved with) and wasn't making claims in class or to the students in terms of whether being LGBTQ was right or wrong. The threat was made through parental complaints that the teacher was going to make their child gay.

Not sure why there has to be such an unreasonable reaction to the mere presence of a flag that is not making some polarizing statement, but advocating inclusion and in the classroom, where students are learning not only more about the world, but how to be a better person, to be kind to each other. It's not just the parents' duty, they permit the teachers to be stewards of their children.

Was the district justified in threatening to fire him when they never said it was not prohibited in the classroom to begin with and only reacted as such when one parent complained about something that was demonstrably ridiculous to even suggest?

 

[pitabread]

The threat was made through parental complaints that the teacher was going to make their child gay.

Sounds like the parent(s) need to be sent to grade school instead of the children.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Missouri teacher resigns after school district ordered him to remove Pride flag from classroom

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/education/article254077203.html

No joke, teacher in Missouri resigned after they were threatened with firing if they continued to hang a rainbow flag in their classroom and voiced a message of support to the students. Public school, mind you, and the teacher didn't mention sexuality or gender in the class (because it was speech/debate, theater and world mythology that the teacher was involved with) and wasn't making claims in class or to the students in terms of whether being LGBTQ was right or wrong. The threat was made through parental complaints that the teacher was going to make their child gay.

Not sure why there has to be such an unreasonable reaction to the mere presence of a flag that is not making some polarizing statement, but advocating inclusion and in the classroom, where students are learning not only more about the world, but how to be a better person, to be kind to each other. It's not just the parents' duty, they permit the teachers to be stewards of their children.

Was the district justified in threatening to fire him when they never said it was not prohibited in the classroom to begin with and only reacted as such when one parent complained about something that was demonstrably ridiculous to even suggest?

Wondering who would complain about a swastika as support for students (some are skinheads after all) if the teacher never mentioned the Nazis or even hinted at anything else that might be for or against any agendas? There might be parental complaints. There might even be an uproar. There might even be threats of discipline from the school board. And many might even say 'good riddance' if the teacher resigned.

 

[muichimotsu]

Wondering who would complain about a swastika as support for students (some are skinheads after all) if the teacher never mentioned the Nazis or even hinted at anything else that might be for or against any agendas? There might be parental complaints. There might even be an uproar. There might even be threats of discipline from the school board. And many might even say 'good riddance' if the teacher resigned.

Wow, the whataboutism is palpable and still fallacious.

Skinheads /=/ Nazis, first off, they existed as a punk movement before that, so point missed already and inaccurate to boot

A swastika, especially in terms of Western associations, is pretty much primarily understood as a Nazi symbol and not how it can be interpreted in Eastern cultures

A pride flag doesn't even come in the same country as a swastika would and to even compare them betrays your own dangerous prejudices that I'm not commenting on further.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I suspect that eventually displaying it will be mandatory.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

Missouri teacher resigns after school district ordered him to remove Pride flag from classroom

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/education/article254077203.html

No joke, teacher in Missouri resigned after they were threatened with firing if they continued to hang a rainbow flag in their classroom and voiced a message of support to the students. Public school, mind you, and the teacher didn't mention sexuality or gender in the class (because it was speech/debate, theater and world mythology that the teacher was involved with) and wasn't making claims in class or to the students in terms of whether being LGBTQ was right or wrong. The threat was made through parental complaints that the teacher was going to make their child gay.

Not sure why there has to be such an unreasonable reaction to the mere presence of a flag that is not making some polarizing statement, but advocating inclusion and in the classroom, where students are learning not only more about the world, but how to be a better person, to be kind to each other. It's not just the parents' duty, they permit the teachers to be stewards of their children.

Was the district justified in threatening to fire him when they never said it was not prohibited in the classroom to begin with and only reacted as such when one parent complained about something that was demonstrably ridiculous to even suggest?

I wonder if it relates to the concept of those who claim to be persecuted are really the ones doing the persecuting?
I don’t know, I could be off.
But the teacher chose not to do battle. Probably the wise thing.
I’ve been learning that you can’t win against stupid.
She probably already knows that.

 

[muichimotsu]

I wonder if it relates to the concept of those who claim to be persecuted are really the ones doing the persecuting?
I don’t know, I could be off.
But the teacher chose not to do battle. Probably the wise thing.
I’ve been learning that you can’t win against stupid.
She probably already knows that.

Reaction formation could be the case, trying to claim others are manifesting the trait that you subconsciously are manifesting and acting the opposite to rationalize it

 

[chevyontheriver]

Wow, the whataboutism is palpable and still fallacious.

Skinheads /=/ Nazis, first off, they existed as a punk movement before that, so point missed already and inaccurate to boot

A swastika, especially in terms of Western associations, is pretty much primarily understood as a Nazi symbol and not how it can be interpreted in Eastern cultures

A pride flag doesn't even come in the same country as a swastika would and to even compare them betrays your own dangerous prejudices that I'm not commenting on further.

I hit a sensitive nerve.

 

[pitabread]

Wondering who would complain about a swastika as support for students (some are skinheads after all) if the teacher never mentioned the Nazis or even hinted at anything else that might be for or against any agendas?

Are you actually comparing a Nazi swastika with a gay pride flag?

Are those *really* equivalent in your mind?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Missouri teacher resigns after school district ordered him to remove Pride flag from classroom

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/education/article254077203.html

No joke, teacher in Missouri resigned after they were threatened with firing if they continued to hang a rainbow flag in their classroom and voiced a message of support to the students. Public school, mind you, and the teacher didn't mention sexuality or gender in the class (because it was speech/debate, theater and world mythology that the teacher was involved with) and wasn't making claims in class or to the students in terms of whether being LGBTQ was right or wrong. The threat was made through parental complaints that the teacher was going to make their child gay.

Not sure why there has to be such an unreasonable reaction to the mere presence of a flag that is not making some polarizing statement, but advocating inclusion and in the classroom, where students are learning not only more about the world, but how to be a better person, to be kind to each other. It's not just the parents' duty, they permit the teachers to be stewards of their children.

Was the district justified in threatening to fire him when they never said it was not prohibited in the classroom to begin with and only reacted as such when one parent complained about something that was demonstrably ridiculous to even suggest?

Why does this kind of thing always feel like whoever prints the story wants to produce a reaction, rather than to get across the whole story?

 

[muichimotsu]

Why does this kind of thing always feel like whoever prints the story wants to produce a reaction, rather than to get across the whole story?

So what do you think is missing in the story? I posted the source I got it from AND the original source, pretty sure it was made clear and they got a solid amount of information in regards to the situation.

 

[muichimotsu]

I hit a sensitive nerve.

Not a skinhead, not a Jew, homosexual, Romani or other group persecuted and oppressed by the 3rd Reich, though I know people in some of those groups. If that's a "sensitive" nerve for me to object to 1) an equivocation in two fundamentally distinct symbols as both somehow "evil" rather than both being something a person might disagree with for distinct reasons. and 2) that you're downplaying a representation of one of the worst political regimes in human history, tying into Christianity in a certain occult manner and the white supremacist elements that still pop up in groups that mainline Christians avoid as much as the Westboro Baptist Church?

No, I can't imagine WHY that'd make me a bit upset at your tone deaf insensitivity...

 

[Mark Quayle]

So what do you think is missing in the story? I posted the source I got it from AND the original source, pretty sure it was made clear and they got a solid amount of information in regards to the situation.

I don't know. I wasn't there, I didn't interview the parties involved. I do know that the media keeps getting things wrong.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Wondering who would complain about a swastika as support for students (some are skinheads after all) if the teacher never mentioned the Nazis or even hinted at anything else that might be for or against any agendas? There might be parental complaints. There might even be an uproar. There might even be threats of discipline from the school board. And many might even say 'good riddance' if the teacher resigned.

That example is a little over the top, but I think having some pro NRA stuff in the classroom might fit the bill. I imagine a lot of lefty parents really hating that, and yeah I don't see that rainbow flags should get any special treatment over "Make America Great Again" hats and signs which were routinely rejected at schools), NRA posters etc. which I'm sure would be complained against etc. seeing how some folks don't even want their neighbors to display such things in their own front yard let alone a school room.

 

[mark46]

I'm confused. The teacher worked in a place with rules that prohibited certain signs. At work, there is NO inherent right to display your personal views through flags on the wall or desk or anywhere else.

It is on point to ask which flags should be allowed. If this is a free speech issue, then Republican Party, Democratic Party, Proud Boy, Trump, Nazi, Taliban and other flags must be allowed. This is clearly NOT a free speech issue.

We are left with the question of whether the school is within its rights to ban any flag it wishes. Or perhaps, there should be a standard, or perhaps certain flags should be allowed. Personally, I favor the position that the workplace rules shouldn't allow any flags or other signage.
================
I understand the folks that want the school to allow any flag that the poster deems appropriate. Perhaps, the school board should discuss this at an open meeting. For me, the issue is clear: no flags.

 

[muichimotsu]

I don't know. I wasn't there, I didn't interview the parties involved. I do know that the media keeps getting things wrong.

Slippery slope fallacy, sounds like. You assume that you can't trust the media because they keep getting things wrong, which might also be more your confirmation bias that ignores when they get things right instead of a pattern that reinforces your mistrust of anything that isn't already confirming something you believe

Do you absolutely trust anything? In which case, you're doing the very thing you insinuate others are, just in a particular way that suits you and the cognitive dissonance would kill you otherwise

 

[muichimotsu]

I'm confused. The teacher worked in a place with rules that prohibited certain signs. At work, there is NO inherent right to display your personal views through flags on the wall or desk or anywhere else.

It is on point to ask which flags should be allowed. If this is a free speech issue, then Republican Party, Democratic Party, Proud Boy, Trump, Nazi, Taliban and other flags must be allowed. This is clearly NOT a free speech issue.

We are left with the question of whether the school is within its rights to ban any flag it wishes. Or perhaps, there should be a standard, or perhaps certain flags should be allowed. Personally, I favor the position that the workplace rules shouldn't allow any flags or other signage.
================
I understand the folks that want the school to allow any flag that the poster deems appropriate. Perhaps, the school board should discuss this at an open meeting. For me, the issue is clear: no flags.

Did you read the story? They only advised her against it, they didn't prohibit it remotely, which is a basic application of a general versus a specific rule

So they shouldn't have even had the accompanying message that everyone is welcome? Seems like that would go too far in repressing anything that would seem like a personal view rather than something that is common and humanitarian.

It is not a partisan flag, the others you mention explicitly are, linked to a specific ideology and not often one that is remotely positive in nature (who's going to advocate for freaking ISIS, a paramilitary terrorist organization and think that's a free speech thing in school?)

Not all flags are equal, that's where you're oversimplifying, because politics is not innately partisan. This would be like acting as if BLM is just all Marxist because a particular group (not the only BLM group) said as much in their ideals or such. Advocating against racism or saying that LGBTQ people are valid is not controversial in a civil society that supposedly is about human dignity and liberty. Repressing that is tantamount to an antithetical hypocrisy that goes the "Do as I say, not as I do," route.

It's not my preferential notion here, it's applying a standard where not all flags fit into the aspect you want to shoehorn them into. And a sign that the teacher also put up is also not in the vein of putting up a partisan flag of a political group that affects policy explicitly versus one that is functioning far more as a non profit and non partisan group. Or is the idea that all are welcome something controversial and divisive?

 

[muichimotsu]

That example is a little over the top, but I think having some pro NRA stuff in the classroom might fit the bill. I imagine a lot of lefty parents really hating that, and yeah I don't see that rainbow flags should get any special treatment over "Make America Great Again" hats and signs which were routinely rejected at schools), NRA posters etc. which I'm sure would be complained against etc. seeing how some folks don't even want their neighbors to display such things in their own front yard let alone a school room.

MAGA hats and signs are not in the same vein as "All are welcome" or a rainbow flag, because we can easily demonstrate the link to white supremacy and other damaging aspects, while LGBTQ positivity is not something negative in terms of basic acknowledgement that they should be given respect

Also, NRA is explicitly trying to influence policy, a rainbow flag is not necessarily linked in the same way, because it doesn't have to be about policy, but principle.

And a front yard is decidedly a different context versus a school, because that's private property and the only major limitation would be civil statutes or HOA code versus anything in regards to a school having a captive audience of students and seeking education, not indoctrination.

A mere rainbow flag or such is not exclusionary at all, same as a BLM flag, because it is not saying white lives suck, it's saying they already matter and that systemic racism should be addressed, neither of which are controversial in the 21st century except in an absurdly white supremacist country like America where white fragility rules.

 

[RDKirk]

This has been through the courts.

Teachers are agents and authorities of the government. As such, they are limited by the Bill of Rights like any government agent that deals with citizens under their control.

It is exactly the same as a superior officer in the military displaying any political symbol other than a government-authorized flag over his command. No pride flags, no MAGA flags, no BLM flags, no confederate flags, no religious flags. It is considered coercive upon those under his authority.

It's the same with a school teacher. This is not new. The teacher does not have unfettered free speech in the classroom anymore than the squadron commander in his squadron or the postmaster in the post office.

 

[tstor]

I take no issue with the LGBT flag being displayed in classrooms. However, I do find it entirely reasonable for a teacher to remove it if some students and their parents find it problematic.