Teachableness

[dms1972]

I want to ask about this, as I find it a bit of a barrier in my settling in a church (i am also not keen on "house groups" which some churches operate - basically a midweek fellowship / teaching session in some members house) In my experience with some churches these are often pushed and I get asked "Are you in a house group"?, and I feel like if I refuse to get involved, people regard me as not serious in my christian walk (well its possible I am not a christian anymore, but when I was going to these churches I was seeking get back. Not saying there is anything wrong with churches having these groups for those who want to go to them, but I don't like being constantly asked "Have you joined a house group?" when have started going to some churches. I am sure for many people they are good, but I seem to wreck the togetherness or sense of community in the group or something when I join (I was a told that once by one group member "I'd upset the group's sense of community", after i had ceased to attend the group) - not sure if I'd upset it by ceasing to attend, or when i was attending. But to me if you run one of these groups you got to be prepared for people joining and leaving. The leader was nice and tried to make me feel part of the group, but the others already knew each other and didn't often didn't speak to me when I attended social events the group was having. One in the group tended to keep posing the question What would Jesus do? WWJD? Well if he'd just have asked himself that in the quiet of his heart, and then gone and done it, he could have modeled what it meant to be a disciple of Christ? I wasn't at the stage of walking over to groups of people on the street and witnessing, I was to an extent postmodern and post-christian in my mindset, though going to church to see if might help me return to the Faith I'd grown up in.

Its quite likely that I am somewhat unteachable even unbelieving at the moment. Part of this is probably I have read widely on my own in various subjects christian and otherwise, so I have acquired a bit of knowledge. I believe some christians as well as being informed doctrinally also hold political and economic views of various stripes. When I was much younger and at school, I leaned somewhat left politically I think, and I couldn't abide direction from some older christians I who i believed supported certain political and economic policies at the time, that I wasn't sure i agreed with. I couldn't put myself in submission to them at the time. It might of course have been as much a teenage rebellion thing, but I also had been influenced by Kierrkegarrd's writting to some extent.

I am much older now. What exactly does teachableness entail / require in church context. How much is one allowed to debate, question, disagree, without becoming unteachable? And how teachable should teachers still be themselves?

Spiritually speaking I am not sure where i am at currently. I don't attend any church regularly.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

That's a good question and a hard topic - I recognise some of your observations.

We're not called to be stubborn, self-opinionated, arrogant, prideful, or unwilling to learn. But the more one knows, the more one has studied and has learned to trust on certain interpretations or convictions, the less likely it is you may feel at ease in learning circles among believers with very different backgrounds or needs. You're simply not getting out of the experience what others may get, and may end up with frustration.

I appreciate meeting different-minded people or viewpoints - because that's an opportunity to learn; yet learning does not mean switching off your brain. So it given all new + old information you have you still can't be convinced, that's OK in my opinion.

Ecclesiastes 1:18

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief."​

​

Having lots of life experience, knowing a lot means it's more of a challenge to learn in an environment geared towards novice believers, or people with different levels of desire to get to the bottom of issues.

 

[dms1972]

"We're not called to be stubborn, self-opinionated, arrogant, prideful, or unwilling to learn. But the more one knows, the more one has studied and has learned to trust on certain interpretations or convictions, the less likely it is you may feel at ease in learning circles among believers with very different backgrounds or needs. You're simply not getting out of the experience what others may get, and may end up with frustration."

Thanks, that exactly my experience. I have been to classes in churches on certain things, and I hear people say "Oh. This is helping me so much. I am getting so much out of this." And I honestly I don't feel that at times. But at the same time i still feel spiritually adrift, dis-related and not really rooted anywhere.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I want to ask about this, as I find it a bit of a barrier in my settling in a church (i am also not keen on "house groups" which some churches operate - basically a midweek fellowship / teaching session in some members house) In my experience with some churches these are often pushed and I get asked "Are you in a house group"?, and I feel like if I refuse to get involved, people regard me as not serious in my christian walk (well its possible I am not a christian anymore, but when I was going to these churches I was seeking get back. Not saying there is anything wrong with churches having these groups for those who want to go to them, but I don't like being constantly asked "Have you joined a house group?" when have started going to some churches. I am sure for many people they are good, but I seem to wreck the togetherness or sense of community in the group or something when I join (I was a told that once by one group member "I'd upset the group's sense of community", after i had ceased to attend the group) - not sure if I'd upset it by ceasing to attend, or when i was attending. But to me if you run one of these groups you got to be prepared for people joining and leaving. The leader was nice and tried to make me feel part of the group, but the others already knew each other and didn't often didn't speak to me when I attended social events the group was having. One in the group tended to keep posing the question What would Jesus do? WWJD? Well if he'd just have asked himself that in the quiet of his heart, and then gone and done it, he could have modeled what it meant to be a disciple of Christ? I wasn't at the stage of walking over to groups of people on the street and witnessing, I was to an extent postmodern and post-christian in my mindset, though going to church to see if might help me return to the Faith I'd grown up in.

Its quite likely that I am somewhat unteachable even unbelieving at the moment. Part of this is probably I have read widely on my own in various subjects christian and otherwise, so I have acquired a bit of knowledge. I believe some christians as well as being informed doctrinally also hold political and economic views of various stripes. When I was much younger and at school, I leaned somewhat left politically I think, and I couldn't abide direction from some older christians I who i believed supported certain political and economic policies at the time, that I wasn't sure i agreed with. I couldn't put myself in submission to them at the time. It might of course have been as much a teenage rebellion thing, but I also had been influenced by Kierrkegarrd's writting to some extent.

I am much older now. What exactly does teachableness entail / require in church context. How much is one allowed to debate, question, disagree, without becoming unteachable? And how teachable should teachers still be themselves?

Spiritually speaking I am not sure where i am at currently. I don't attend any church regularly.

Do you Love Jesus Christ of Nazareth?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I want to ask about this, as I find it a bit of a barrier in my settling in a church (i am also not keen on "house groups" which some churches operate - basically a midweek fellowship / teaching session in some members house) In my experience with some churches these are often pushed and I get asked "Are you in a house group"?, and I feel like if I refuse to get involved, people regard me as not serious in my christian walk (well its possible I am not a christian anymore, but when I was going to these churches I was seeking get back. Not saying there is anything wrong with churches having these groups for those who want to go to them, but I don't like being constantly asked "Have you joined a house group?" when have started going to some churches. I am sure for many people they are good, but I seem to wreck the togetherness or sense of community in the group or something when I join (I was a told that once by one group member "I'd upset the group's sense of community", after i had ceased to attend the group) - not sure if I'd upset it by ceasing to attend, or when i was attending. But to me if you run one of these groups you got to be prepared for people joining and leaving. The leader was nice and tried to make me feel part of the group, but the others already knew each other and didn't often didn't speak to me when I attended social events the group was having. One in the group tended to keep posing the question What would Jesus do? WWJD? Well if he'd just have asked himself that in the quiet of his heart, and then gone and done it, he could have modeled what it meant to be a disciple of Christ? I wasn't at the stage of walking over to groups of people on the street and witnessing, I was to an extent postmodern and post-christian in my mindset, though going to church to see if might help me return to the Faith I'd grown up in.

Its quite likely that I am somewhat unteachable even unbelieving at the moment. Part of this is probably I have read widely on my own in various subjects christian and otherwise, so I have acquired a bit of knowledge. I believe some christians as well as being informed doctrinally also hold political and economic views of various stripes. When I was much younger and at school, I leaned somewhat left politically I think, and I couldn't abide direction from some older christians I who i believed supported certain political and economic policies at the time, that I wasn't sure i agreed with. I couldn't put myself in submission to them at the time. It might of course have been as much a teenage rebellion thing, but I also had been influenced by Kierrkegarrd's writting to some extent.

I am much older now. What exactly does teachableness entail / require in church context. How much is one allowed to debate, question, disagree, without becoming unteachable? And how teachable should teachers still be themselves?

Spiritually speaking I am not sure where i am at currently. I don't attend any church regularly.

You're not the only one who has had some of these sorts of experiences. I have had them too, and usually the ideological 'clash' will be had within churches that are very, very firm and fundamentalistic on their doctrinal praxis.

On a practical scale, the only thing you can do is find a church or group that sees the Christian Faith more as a journey within the diversities of the overall Christian Tradition. Unfortunately, not every city or town in the U.S. has churches or groups who are more epistemically oriented to a faith journey, so it may be difficult going in that case (as it is for me-------------because I will not attend ultra-liberal churches nor ultra-conservative ones, either way.)

 

[dms1972]

Thanks 2Philo, like yourself (I think?) I have explored some of the existentialist writers - such as Kierrkegarrd, and some of the theology that has been influenced by existentialism. These writers are not easy to understand, and not everyone needs to read them. The more intellectual and historical context on them I get it I find it sometimes helps me. The real problem intellectually and spiritually for me has been the various dualisms. But basically i can see the problem at least intellectually, in a lot of this thought theres a retreat from the external world as it were, this is why I value Francis Scaheffer and some others as something of a corrective for me. I got into difficulties with his books though and I am not sure why. I think now the wider ministry of the Scaheffer's was what helped people, not merely the books. Many seekers visited L'Abri and met the Schaeffers took part in discussions and asked questions, and so I think the self-performed as it were work i tried to do on myself by reading his books didn't necessarily penetrate a deeper layer in my belief system. From point of view of reformed theology you cannot perform a DIY conversion, and that was my experience even with good apologetic resources.

So anyway forced myself some years ago without any interest or desire to go back to a church. But its hard to explain to folks there were I am at really. That church was trying to figure out what it should be doing. They eventually drew up a 5 year vision paper. The pastor had had two severe bouts of depression which had incapacitated him. One of the worship leaders would sing in such an emotional way (like it was just about him and the Lord) at times that I felt there was something wrong, but kept wondering was it me. Don't get me wrong, I have heard soloists sing very movingly, but that wasn't what was happening here, there was something too subjective about it. The problem was very few seemed to be equipped / knowledgeable or articulate enough to address some of those problems in that church. I got an inside view of some of it cause sometimes some folks were kind enough to invite me out for coffee with them, but then way they talked about others in the church - there was clearly issues (mainly with them) not necessarily real issues but they had issues. The congregation was I reckoned at least 50% made up of break aways from two or three other churchs in the denomination.

I was dispointed when I passed a short booklet to the Pastor which I thought was very important and he said it was over his head. It was quite a difficult read - and took me busy myself grasping it. But you see what I meet with sometimes is basically christian relativism "Oh you think its important do you? but could it just be you that thinks this is important" Sure ok, but maybe they could read it and pray and see if it was something that they should understand, or even if they should pass it on to someone else in the congregation.