Taught by Revelation...Not Man

[Tzaousios]

Generalize?

Excuse me ... you make broad sweeping generalized accusations ... without substantiating them ... and then accuse me of generalizing? What?

Sorry, Tzaousios ... I'm not getting a warm fuzzy that you're interested in a sincere, honest discourse ...

You keep repeating the "broad sweeping generalized accusations" number as if it will make it true in reality. I have been very specific in my criticisms on the levels of methodology and epistemology. That one internet prophet might think Obama is the Antichrist, or that Vladimir Putin is, was not my original focus and is not now.

Are you sure that you aren't getting that feeling because I do not subscribe to your politics?

Uhh ... I'm sorry ... could ya mebbe lower the intellectual level of that statement so I could mebbe grasp some of the implicit message implied in the greater context of the philosophical content therein ... or something like that ... I'm pretty literal, if ya know what I mean.

Why do you feign ignorance? It is not a convincing defense mechanism. I made no presumptions on your intelligence and education.

If you were interested in what I was saying, all you had to do was look up the philosopher Hegel with the terms I used. It is not just lofty esotericism. Leftist intellectuals employ Hegelian concepts and language all the time. I am just saying, whether consciously or unconsciously, you would not want to use the same language about someone you admire.

Ever consider that maybe God likes Mormons, too?

Sure, insofar as they are His creations and He wishes them to come to a salvific knowledge of Him. Wilfully denying the humanity of Christ and the consubstantiality of the Trinity is not the way Christians have done this througout the ages, though.

 

[NightHawkeye]

In other words, because I bring criticism ...

Nope ... because you haven't substantiated your allegations ... still haven't, LOL.

I have already described the elements with which I disagree. So far you have taken issue with the fact that I don't buy Beck's politics rather than anything theological.

Sorry to disappoint ya ... but, I responded to those points I thought important.

That's fine; you have the freedom to do so. However, I disagree when professed orthodox Christians allow the theological and religious sentiments (even when clothed in political rhetoric) of a Christological heretic to inform their worldview.

Wow ... ya really don't like Mormons, do ya?

Just because he criticizes Obama and stands against anti-Semitism does not mean Christians have any business taking in what he says.

Seems like a good start to me ... ya left off the part about him characterizing Obama as a Marxist though ...

See, this is where you are taken in by the rhetoric of the presentation. It is not cold, hard, unvarnished "information." It is definitely not "truth."

LOL ... we've been through this before here ... just post what Beck has presented which is incorrect ... shouldn't be that difficult ... it's not like news is ever 100% accurate all the time. There really should be a big pile of stuff that's demonstrably WRONG, right?

You choose to take it in as merely "information" because you already agree with a certain number of Beck's political presuppositions. That has secured you trust in the source.

Well ... I'm listening to you too, Tzaousios ... does that mean I trust you?

Seriously, though, I am getting the impression that because I have brought criticism of internet prophesying and the Neoconservative, Evangelical Protestant political darling Glenn Beck, my conservative credentials are being doubted. As I told 1whirlwind, I am not an NWO liberal secular humanist who is trying to infiltrate the discussion.

Wow, you have credentials, Tzaousios? I'm impressed. How would I get some ... not that I want the same credentials you have, or anything.

To answer your question, I do read the news. If I have to watch it, it does tend to be Fox News more often than not (gasp!). I cannot stand the alphabet networks or cable news outlets.

Good ... not a Luddite ...

 

[NightHawkeye]

Are you sure that you aren't getting that feeling because I do not subscribe to your politics?

So long as you keep it honest and real, it's all good, Tzaousios.

Why do you feign ignorance? It is not a convincing defense mechanism. I made no presumptions on your intelligence and education.

I'm simple, Tzaousios. Keep it real.

If you were interested in what I was saying, all you had to do was look up the philosopher Hegel with the terms I used. It is not just lofty esotericism. Leftist intellectuals employ Hegelian concepts and language all the time. I am just saying, whether consciously or unconsciously, you would not want to use the same language about someone you admire.

LOL ... it is esoteric ... looking up Hegel wouldn't have clarified things for me. Thanks for the clarification.

Sure, insofar as they are His creations and He wishes them to come to a salvific knowledge of Him. Wilfully denying the humanity of Christ and the consubstantiality of the Trinity is not the way Christians have done this througout the ages, though.

As regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ... I offer this ...

1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
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[Tzaousios]

Nope ... because you haven't substantiated your allegations ... still haven't, LOL.

As I said, repeating the this will not make it come true in reality. Why would you admit that Beck was wrong, to say nothing of me possibly being right, when it would go against all you have defended thus far? I do not expect you to admit it. One can pay lip service all they want to the lofty notion of "fact checking" and "not taking someone's word for it."

Wow ... ya really don't like Mormons, do ya?

Before you pigeonhole me, I disagree very much with their theology. Would I give a Mormon the shirt off my back or a cup of cold water? Sure, no problem.

Seems like a good start to me ... ya left off the part about him characterizing Obama as a Marxist though ...

OH NO! I better prove that I am not a closet Marxist. We all know that those people who disagree with and criticize Beck are Marxists and Socialists.

Fine, you can agree with Beck's stance against Marxism, Socialism, anti-Semitism, and Obama's job running the country. Where do you draw the line though? Is Beck's blubbery doomsday-prophesying acceptable, despite the religious overtones? Is his wishy-washy, theologically-shallow attempts at ecumenism acceptable, because "we all worship the same God"?

Wow, you have credentials, Tzaousios? I'm impressed. How would I get some ... not that I want the same credentials you have, or anything.

Hmm. And just why wouldn't you want the same credential that I have?

So long as you keep it honest and real, it's all good, Tzaousios.

I'm simple, Tzaousios. Keep it real.

Speaking of copouts...

LOL ... it is esoteric ... looking up Hegel wouldn't have clarified things for me. Thanks for the clarification.

Just keep on feigning. Why do you disparage this as "esoteric," yet place so much trust in the stuff that Beck digs up?

As regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ... I offer this ...

1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.​

I see. So the fact that the LDS church has "Jesus Christ" in its name magically makes them historically-verifiable, orthodox Christians?

They may confess a christ, but it is one without distinct natures and out of fellowship with the Trinity. I find it very troubling that Beck would have missed this important part of the history of the Christian church.

Concerning the insinuation that I am being unloving towards Mormons, I already told you that I have no problem clothing them, feeding them, and giving them a cup of water.
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[NightHawkeye]

Why would you admit that Beck was wrong, to say nothing of me possibly being right, when it would go against all you have defended thus far?

Give me a break, Tzaousios, I'm wrong all the time ... just the other day on this forum I had to correct a "fact" I'd presented. The challenge even came from an individual I often disagree with ... or maybe he disagrees with me, but I digress ...

I just did it. The exchange happened in just a few short minutes without argument. :o Yeah, I felt bad for a few seconds ... oops. Kinda like a stubbed toe, ya know.

Fact is I live and work within a FACT-driven environment. Doesn't matter whether I've introduced something or not. When anything is demonstrably wrong, then it's wrong. Period. End of discussion. Ya just live with it. I do the best I can before introducing discussion points, but don't always get it right. That's all anyone can do. I think that's what God expects ... that, along with a willingness to accept corrections when my own meager efforts haven't been good enough to begin with.

I also kinda like to think that each of us is here both to give and take. At least that's why I'm here. Hope you feel the same ... certainly doesn't mean you need to agree with my perspective on anything. You're entitled to your own opinions, just not to your own FACTS.

Truth is true, regardless of who presents it here.

Before you pigeonhole me, I disagree very much with their theology. Would I give a Mormon the shirt off my back or a cup of cold water? Sure, no problem.

Good.

Kinda the way I feel about some folks, too. Mis-guided ... but, I have no doubt the feeling is mutual, LOL.

Nevertheless, that doesn't change their facts one iota. Like I said, doesn't matter who presents the truth. God has had plenty of "unlikely" servants and messengers in the past ... happened a number of times, actually. Ya ever wonder why that is?

OH NO! I better prove that I am not a closet Marxist.

LOL ... if you're a closet Marxist, that'll be obvious soon enough in your blatant disregard for truth.

We all know that those people who disagree with and criticize Beck are Marxists and Socialists.

Whatever ...

Hmm. And just why wouldn't you want the same credential that I have?

[NHE chuckles merrily that his brazen insult hit home ... ]

Ummh ... not sure credentials matter much here ... truth does seem to make a difference though ...

Concerning the insinuation that I am being unloving towards Mormons, I already told you that I have no problem clothing them, feeding them, and giving them a cup of water.

Well, that's mighty obliging of ya, Tzaousios.

... sigh ... ever consider them as equals?


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[Tzaousios]

Nevertheless, that doesn't change their facts one iota. Like I said, doesn't matter who presents the truth. God has had plenty of "unlikely" servants and messengers in the past ... happened a number of times, actually. Ya ever wonder why that is?

What are you getting at, exactly? All of this appealing to "facts" in a vague, nebulous sense does not prop up whatever argument it is you are trying to make. What "facts" are you talking about? What do you think they prove?

LOL ... if you're a closet Marxist, that'll be obvious soon enough in your blatant disregard for truth.

Wow, okay. Where have I blatantly disregarded the truth? I hope it is not because I have not watched GBtv. No, I am not a closet Marxist, nor am I an open Marxist.

[NHE chuckles merrily that his brazen insult hit home ... ]

Ummh ... not sure credentials matter much here ... truth does seem to make a difference though ...

Well, I don't know about anything "hitting home" exactly, but I would still like to know why you would not want my credentials, in theory, at least.

... sigh ... ever consider them as equals?

Sure, God created them equal as men, just like the rest of mankind. Why should that entail me accepting or justifying their willful heresies?

 

[NightHawkeye]

What are you getting at, exactly? All of this appealing to "facts" in a vague, nebulous sense does not prop up whatever argument it is you are trying to make. What "facts" are you talking about? What do you think they prove?

LOL ... thought I was pretty direct, Tzaousios. I'll try to do better though ...

Here is the encapsulated version:

Truth is true, regardless of who presents it here.

Wow, okay. Where have I blatantly disregarded the truth? I hope it is not because I have not watched GBtv. No, I am not a closet Marxist, nor am I an open Marxist.

Didn't say you had disregarded the truth, Tzaousios ... as for whether or not you're a Marxist, you made that suggestion, not me ... LOL.

Well, I don't know about anything "hitting home" exactly, but I would still like to know why you would not want my credentials, in theory, at least.

Tzaousios, your credentials here are about as good as your next post, if you know what I mean.

Some days a hero ... some days a goat ...


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[Tzaousios]

LOL ... thought I was pretty direct, Tzaousios. I'll try to do better though ...

Here is the encapsulated version:
Truth is true, regardless of who presents it here.

No, you made a vague, nebulous statement about "truth" in the form of a Hallmark card sentiment. It might be nice to quote, but it does not remove the responsibility of others to distinguish between real facts and things made to appear as fact.

Didn't say you had disregarded the truth, Tzaousios ... as for whether or not you're a Marxist, you made that suggestion, not me ... LOL.

Well, I did not make the suggestion that I am a Marxist. You might have taken it and run with to see what happened, though.

As for your denial that you said that, what did you mean then:

LOL ... if you're a closet Marxist, that'll be obvious soon enough in your blatant disregard for truth.

Was that a typo? A Freudian slip?

Tzaousios, your credentials here are about as good as your next post, if you know what I mean.

Ah, okay. That still does not answer the question as to why you do not want whatever credentials I might have.

 

[NightHawkeye]

No, you made a vague, nebulous statement about "truth" ...

Well, I did not make the suggestion that I am a Marxist. You might have taken it and run ...

As for your denial that you said that, what did you mean ...

Was that a typo? A Freudian slip?

Ah, okay. That still does not answer the question as to why you do not want whatever credentials ...

LOL ... I'm sensing an argument in need of justification, Tzaousios.

Instead, let me offer this ...

Mark 9:33 And he came to Capernaum: and being in the house he asked them, What was it that ye disputed among yourselves by the way?
34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.
36 And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,
37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
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[Tzaousios]

LOL ... I'm sensing an argument in need of justification

Why do you sense that? Your posts keep truncating more and more from my words and replying with less and less. Also, you did say "your blatant disregard for truth."

 

[NightHawkeye]

Why do you sense that? Your posts keep truncating more and more from my words and replying with less and less. Also, you did say "your blatant disregard for truth."

That was a qualified statement ... presuming (under your hypothesis) that if you were a Marxist ... then we would soon know because you would display a blatant disregard for truth.

Hope that clarifies.


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[1whirlwind]

Tzaousios, your credentials here are about as good as your next post, if you know what I mean.

Some days a hero ... some days a goat ...


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Tears rolling down my face.....

That line sums up so many of us. Ain't life grand?


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[1whirlwind]

Why are you and Nighthawkeye trying to generalize my point out of existence? No, I am not talking about "many humans," but the individuals who come and go with their prophecies in General Theology, and feign righteous outrage when someone else would dare question them.

The individuals you are talking about are simply a microcosm of others. Criticism is criticism no matter what field it pertains to. Folks are outraged or take it well depending on the person and how the criticism is offered.

My thought is that the person, whether or not you agree with them, is out there writing and posting. Are the ones criticizing also writing or just there to criticize?

What about my screenname? I do not see why that should be an issue at all except contrarianism for the sake of being contrary.

It isn't an issue. As for the contrariness...is your mirror cracked?

As for what I am willing to do, I most certainly have demonstrated that I am willing to discuss things. So far I have answered every reply to my posts. If I did not think that my views were legitimate, and therefore copouts, I would not have posted them in the first place. My criticisms have been specific, but I have not resorted to tossing about "doctrines of demons/men" to score quick points and win sympathy.

Nor have I.

Okay, but I do not think it is particularly helpful to relativize my point out of existence. I will say that in general it usually comes off as arrogance, as the comments of others besides the followers have attested.

Arrogance is in the eye of the beholder and my eye does see arrogance in some but I also see confidence in others. If you find someone to be arrogant then tell the person.

That sounds like a reconfiguration of the Hegelian language of the World Historical Spirit and its Vessel, which the liberal intellectual elite uses constantly to fawn over President Obama, to prop up Glenn Beck's platform.

Tell me, why didn't our Father preserve Glenn Beck from error concerning the relationship of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father, as well as the person of Christ himself? Surely he would be more concerned with a person's sincere theological beliefs than the vagaries of Neoconservative political discourse...

I never get into discussions of the various religions and what each offer. I left them behind long ago.



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[Tzaousios]

I never get into discussions of the various religions and what each offer. I left them behind long ago.

I see. So you are one of those who offers up the ironclad argument that you "only believe what the Bible plainly/clearly says," while all of those "religions" are not spiritual and mired in their carnal ways.

 

[1whirlwind]

I see. So you are one of those who offers up the ironclad argument that you "only believe what the Bible plainly/clearly says," while all of those "religions" are not spiritual and mired in their carnal ways.

You really have an attitude for someone so young...that may be skipping school today...aren't you a history teacher? Do you teach through the net?


"One of those." One that believes the Bible? Well, yes I am. Would you prefer to discuss all the religions and their problems and virtues? It's a waste of time to me. I believe the Bible but not so much what it "plainly and clearly says."

As for me saying all religions are mired and carnal....I said I didn't discuss religions or...do you not have eyes to see what I wrote? Sorry, I just had to get that one in.



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[Tzaousios]

You really have an attitude for someone so young...that may be skipping school today...aren't you a history teacher? Do you teach through the net?

Attitude? No, I am not trying to disrespect you because of age differences, or to disrespect at all. I teach at an accredited state university. My class does not meet today.

"One of those." One that believes the Bible? Well, yes I am. Would you prefer to discuss all the religions and their problems and virtues? It's a waste of time to me. I believe the Bible but not so much what it "plainly and clearly says."

Why did you reconfigure my words? I said one of those who says they only believe what the Bible plainly/clearly says. One of those who rejects the organized church for the "just me n' my Bible" approach because they think it is carnal and not spiritual. I think both lines of thinking are faulty and are employed as coverups so that no one challenges one's particular intperpretation of Scripture.

As for me saying all religions are mired and carnal....I said I didn't discuss religions or...do you not have eyes to see what I wrote? Sorry, I just had to get that one in.

So? The implications are all there from the things I have read that you have written.

 

[MyImmanuel]

Ok, enough is enough. This thread is devolving.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit teaches us, personally and individually.

What we have been taught by the Holy Spirit will not contradict scripture.

Granted, we each have our own human flaws/failures in understanding but if we are each taught by the Spirit of God instead of commentaries of men and doctrines of demons, we would all be on the same page.

I don't know how Glenn Beck got into this conversation, but I don't see how he fits here other than to bash the OP.

Step 1 - hear and receive the Gospel
Step 2 - Ask for and receive the Holy Spirit
Step 3 - Read the Bible, study it, and let God teach you and show you all Truth.


Jhn 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.


1Jo 2:27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.


Isa 30:21 Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, "This is the way; walk in it."

 

[1whirlwind]

Attitude? No, I am not trying to disrespect you because of age differences, or to disrespect at all. I teach at an accredited state university. My class does not meet today.

I didn't feel any disrespect Tza. I'm rather enjoying this.

Why did you reconfigure my words? I said one of those who says they only believe what the Bible plainly/clearly says. One of those who rejects the organized church for the "just me n' my Bible" approach because they think it is carnal and not spiritual. I think both lines of thinking are faulty and are employed as coverups so that no one challenges one's particular intperpretation of Scripture.

I reject the organized church for many reasons and they are my own. Therefore I don't discuss religion. If you want to open a thread...please do.

As for "just me n' my Bible," no....it is me, my Bible and the Holy Spirit. and there are no coverups for what I write is out there for all to see so challenges abound.

So? The implications are all there from the things I have read that you have written.

Please be specific.



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[NightHawkeye]

Then why not merely take his advice rather than watch his GBtv, listen to his radio show, and buy his wares?

Hey, Tzaousios, Glenn Beck's second two hour GBTV program is now on ...

Yesterday's program was great ... www.gbtv.com


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