Taught by Revelation...Not Man

[1whirlwind]

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Galatians 1:6-7 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Paul marveled that believers, those called by Christ, could so easily discard the true gospel and accept another that in actuality...."is not another." There is only one.

The words written long ago are also spoken to us today. There are those that "trouble" us trying to get us to accept the words of man, which pervert the gospel.
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1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The warning was twice repeated...for emphasis. No matter who, either Christians or...an angel from heaven, that preach another gospel then he may be accursed.
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1:10-12 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul knew Scripture very well but what he preached at this point in his life, after his conversion....was not taught by man. He preached the spirit of the Word as it was revealed to him by Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

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1:13-16 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by His grace, To reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Paul was called to preach Christ and was able to do this once it was revealed that His Son was IN him. That understanding enabled Paul to know, to see, to hear the spirit of the Word...not hear man, not hear the teaching of flesh and blood.
As he was given this knowledge he didn't return to Jerusalem to have the apostles teach him. He had Jesus Christ.
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1:17-19 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

If we too are servants of Jesus and He is revealed in us, then...we too receive the spirit of the Word. As Paul did not return to Jerusalem to be taught by the apostles....we who are watchmen on the housetop...do not return to our house (church) to take anything (the teaching of man).

Luke 17:30-32 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife.



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[Yekcidmij]

And your opinions are exempt from being the "teachings of man"?

 

[1whirlwind]

And your opinions are exempt from being the "teachings of man"?

We are to test the waters as we listen to others. We are to question....do they speak the Words of the Lord or the words of man. How do we know?


Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

We are trees in His garden...all of us. Some are olive, some palm, some figs but...we are His trees, planted just where He wants us to be in order to accomplish certain duties. We produce fruit and by that..."ye shall know them." We are not only to produce but we are to judge the fruit of others.
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7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.

That is a parallel lesson with the ten virgins....five of whom were foolish and to them He said....

Matthew 25:11-12 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But He answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
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We know, for it is written, that the Holy Spirit teaches us the spirit of the Word. We are not to keep that bottled inside but rather...we take those gifts/fruits and share them with others....knowing that false prophets are also out sharing their fruits. As we are to test the fruits we are to.....

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
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Do those that teach us teach from the Scriptures? Do we receive the word, both from the Holy Spirit and others filled with His Spirit and then....test the scriptures to see if it is true?

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


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So, in reply to your question, "And your opinions are exempt from being the "teachings of man" I would answer.....test the fruits, search the Scriptures.

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[Biblewriter]

These observations are true and apply to us.

But they are largely ignored by both sides in most of the debates.

The reason for this is very simple. All too many are relying on their own interpretations of the meanings of various terms used in the Bible.

To get past the opinions, we need to concentrate on expressly stated prophecies given in clear words. There are a great many more of these than most realize.

But there are very few studies available that concentrate on these explicitly stated prophecies. Most would rather push their own interpretations instead of relying on the explicit statements of the word of God.

 

[NightHawkeye]

And your opinions are exempt from being the "teachings of man"?

So, in reply to your question, "And your opinions are exempt from being the "teachings of man" I would answer.....test the fruits, search the Scriptures.

To which I would add ... post the results of your testing ... that all may benefit.


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[NightHawkeye]

To get past the opinions, we need to concentrate on expressly stated prophecies given in clear words. There are a great many more of these than most realize.

Biblewriter, do you have an expressly stated prophesy which relates in some fashion to current discussions?

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[Tzaousios]

So, in reply to your question, "And your opinions are exempt from being the "teachings of man" I would answer.....test the fruits, search the Scriptures.

So, in other words, you are in fact unwilling to consider what you say to be "teachings of men." What am I thinking, though, since if you were actually to admit this in public, your daily enterprise in the Eschatology forum would be viewed with all the more suspicion.

At least, it will not appear to others to be such if it is dressed up in the language of prophecy and highlighted in pretty colors.

 

[1whirlwind]

So, in other words, you are in fact unwilling to consider what you say to be "teachings of men." What am I thinking, though, since if you were actually to admit this in public, your daily enterprise in the Eschatology forum would be viewed with all the more suspicion.

"With all the more suspicion?" Oh my. I didn't realize others were suspicious at all. They need only discuss and the matter may be resolved....or, maybe not.

You will find that in my "daily enterprise" I am not at all unwilling to discuss topics. What did you have in mind? What are you or others suspicious about? What has caused the tone of your post?

At least, it will not appear to others to be such if it is dressed up in the language of prophecy and highlighted in pretty colors.

Well...the language of prophecy is what this forum is all about. And, what do you have against pretty colors?



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[Tzaousios]

"With all the more suspicion?" Oh my. I didn't realize others were suspicious at all.

Should that be surprising to myself or any other uninitiated person who wonders into Eschatology and reads some of the lines of thinking expressed?

They need only discuss and the matter may be resolved....or, maybe not.

No, I would think that they would say it is not worth their time since they would be slapped with the rhetorical epithets of "spiritually blind," "not having ears to hear," and "believing doctrines of men/demons" merely for challenging the pronouncements of all the self-appointed prophets and doomsayers.

You will find that in my "daily enterprise" I am not at all unwilling to discuss topics.

Although I think these are largely rhetorical questions, it would not suprise me that you might remain oblivious to or ignore the criticisms that are brought by people outside the circle of resident prophets against what goes on in Eschatology.

What did you have in mind? What are you or others suspicious about? What has caused the tone of your post

Well, for one, I find it very ironic that a vast majority of the material in here is framed in values, concepts, and vocabulary of the most embarrassing, shallow Neoconservative political discourse out there. That is coming from someone who considers himself extremely conservative, by the way. What is more, it becomes a truly noxious concoction when the elements of wild-eyed conspiracy theory and Illuminati/NWO paranoia are added.

Seriously, what orthodox, historically-, and Biblically-grounded Christian would think that quotes and citations from Glenn Beck would actually help their cause? For goodness' sake, he is an unrepentant Monophysite, Arian heretic!

Well...the language of prophecy is what this forum is all about.

That might be its stated purpose. However, I see something else dressed up in the language of prophecy.

 

[Biblewriter]

Biblewriter, do you have an expressly stated prophesy which relates in some fashion to current discussions?

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The reason I have not been very active in this forum lately is because very few of the current discussions have any bearing on explicitly stated prophecies.

 

[1whirlwind]

Should that be surprising to myself or any other uninitiated person who wonders into Eschatology and reads some of the lines of thinking expressed?

Perhaps we could benefit from your ideas so....express your lines of thinking.

No, I would think that they would say it is not worth their time since they would be slapped with the rhetorical epithets of "spiritually blind," "not having ears to hear," and "believing doctrines of men/demons" merely for challenging the pronouncements of all the self-appointed prophets and doomsayers.

It sounds as if you speak from experience??? You must realize that there are the spiritually blind and deaf and there are doctrines of men/demons. A way to help amend the problem is discussion on forums. Among the self-appointed prophets you will also find the God appointed and even among them there are still many truths to be learned.

Although I think these are largely rhetorical questions, it would not suprise me that you might remain oblivious to or ignore the criticisms that are brought by people outside the circle of resident prophets against what goes on in Eschatology.

"Ignore the criticisms" is the correct choice. I know who I am, why I am here and others "outside" don't influence what I do anymore than I influence them.

Well, for one, I find it very ironic that a vast majority of the material in here is framed in values, concepts, and vocabulary of the most embarrassing, shallow Neoconservative political discourse out there. That is coming from someone who considers himself extremely conservative, by the way. What is more, it becomes a truly noxious concoction when the elements of wild-eyed conspiracy theory and Illuminati/NWO paranoia are added.

Ah, so that is the rub. That is what put the bee in your bonnet. Exactly what comment caused your reaction? Before putting labels on others you should say why you see someone that way.

Seriously, what orthodox, historically-, and Biblically-grounded Christian would think that quotes and citations from Glenn Beck would actually help their cause? For goodness' sake, he is an unrepentant Monophysite, Arian heretic!

Our opinions of Glenn Beck vary greatly. I think he has been a tremendous source of information....information NO ONE else ever put before the American public. I will always be grateful.

That might be its stated purpose. However, I see something else dressed up in the language of prophecy.

Then by all means....state your purpose...your ideas....your understanding.



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[Tzaousios]

Perhaps we could benefit from your ideas so....express your lines of thinking.

Really? I have seen that the resident prophets do not appear to take criticism very well. It kind of puts a crimp in their style.

It sounds as if you speak from experience??? You must realize that there are the spiritually blind and deaf and there are doctrines of men/demons.

What do you mean to suggest? I know there are such things. However, nine times out of ten at CF they are employed as rhetorical tropes to demonize "the other side" in a particular discussion rather than deal with the substance of arguments. In other words, they become copouts.

Among the self-appointed prophets you will also find the God appointed and even among them there are still many truths to be learned.

Yes, and there is a good deal of arrogant presumption involved in their "revelations," along with the tendency to conflate self-appointment with divine-appointment.

I know who I am, why I am here and others "outside" don't influence what I do anymore than I influence them.

Ha! Okay.

Well, for one, I find it very ironic that a vast majority of the material in here is framed in values, concepts, and vocabulary of the most embarrassing, shallowNeoconservative political discourse out there. That is coming from someone who considers himself extremely conservative, by the way. What is more, it becomes a truly noxious concoction when the elements of wild-eyed conspiracy theory and Illuminati/NWO paranoia are added.

Ah, so that is the rub. That is what put the bee in your bonnet. Exactly what comment caused your reaction? Before putting labels on others you should say why you see someone that way.

What "rub" or "bee in my bonnet?" This was an honest observation. It is also quite embarrassing to see. By the way, I am the one that I described as extremely conservative. There is no NWO liberal secular humanist trying to infiltrate this discussion.

Our opinions of Glenn Beck vary greatly. I think he has been a tremendous source of information....information NO ONE else ever put before the American public. I will always be grateful.

Oh, please! You must be joking. As a history teacher (conservative, non-union) I find this very unfortunate. A trip to the library with a critical eye and a skeptical mind is far more effective and rewarding.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Really? I have seen that the resident prophets do not appear to take criticism very well. It kind of puts a crimp in their style.

What a broad generalization. It's a human failing ...

Of more interest to me though ... who here is a prophet? Names, please. Out 'em ... just so we can condemn 'em when their prophecies fail ... or exalt 'em should they prove to be accurate ...

Oh, please! You must be joking. As a history teacher (conservative, non-union) I find this very unfortunate. A trip to the library with a critical eye and a skeptical mind is far more effective and rewarding.

Exactly as Glenn Beck would encourage ...

For example: "... I did not realize that I had called all progressives Nazis. That is weird. I have said Nazis have used progressive tactics. You should read Bernays. If you don’t believe me, read Goebbels,” Glenn explained."
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For the record, Glenn has been steadfastly adamant about not taking his word on any matter ...

From Glenn Beck's final episode: Glenn Beck Bows Out at FOX News – His Show Broke Every Single Record at 5 PM Timeslot | The Gateway Pundit

His run on FOX was epic. His ratings rivaled the FOX nightly lineup and dwarfed the liberal competition.
The leftist mob learned to hate him with a passion. The tea party conservatives loved him. He was a teacher, an entertainer and a storyteller.
...
Glenn leaves his viewers with this: “Never give up. Believe in yourself… You have to find out for yourself what is true.”
​

 

[1whirlwind]

Really? I have seen that the resident prophets do not appear to take criticism very well. It kind of puts a crimp in their style.

There are not many humans that take criticism kindly. However, it often depends on the way the criticism is offered. Attitude...both of the giver and the receiver is key.

What do you mean to suggest? I know there are such things. However, nine times out of ten at CF they are employed as rhetorical tropes to demonize "the other side" in a particular discussion rather than deal with the substance of arguments. In other words, they become copouts.

It's the nature of the beast. For instance, you yourself (with the very difficult name) don't appear willing to discuss....rather are you yourself not demonizing others as copouts? Not all are ya' know.

WW - Among the self-appointed prophets you will also find the God appointed and even among them there are still many truths to be learned.

TZA - Yes, and there is a good deal of arrogant presumption involved in their "revelations," along with the tendency to conflate self-appointment with divine-appointment.

And....you are the revelation police? All need to go through you to see if their revelations are really, really from God? Perhaps what you see as arrogance is assurance, confidence....as well as true arrogance. It's a mixed bag but...that's life.

Ha! Okay.



What "rub" or "bee in my bonnet?" This was an honest observation. It is also quite embarrassing to see. By the way, I am the one that I described as extremely conservative. There is no NWO liberal secular humanist trying to infiltrate this discussion.

Yes, I heard your self-description.

Oh, please! You must be joking. As a history teacher (conservative, non-union) I find this very unfortunate. A trip to the library with a critical eye and a skeptical mind is far more effective and rewarding.

Nope...not joking at all. I feel Beck did what he did, was placed where he was, at a specific time for a purpose....and it is our Father that guided him.


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[NightHawkeye]

Nope...not joking at all. I feel Beck did what he did, was placed where he was, at a specific time for a purpose....and it is our Father that guided him.

First episode of GBTV at 4 pm ET today: www.GBTV.com

... just minutes away.


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[Tzaousios]

What a broad generalization. It's a human failing ...

Of more interest to me though ... who here is a prophet? Names, please. Out 'em ... just so we can condemn 'em when their prophecies fail ... or exalt 'em should they prove to be accurate ...

Something tells me by this statement that you are going to say there are no prophets here or that they cannot be called that because none of their predictions are slated to occur yet.

I do not think that you need me systematically to go through the pages of the forum and provide a list.

Exactly as Glenn Beck would encourage ...

Then why not merely take his advice rather than watch his GBtv, listen to his radio show, and buy his wares? It is those things which cloud people's minds and prevent them from coming from an informed perspective on their own. By the way, please do not take this to mean that I am anti-Capitalist or anti-business. I am not.

For example: "... I did not realize that I had called all progressives Nazis. That is weird. I have said Nazis have used progressive tactics. You should read Bernays. If you don’t believe me, read Goebbels,” Glenn explained."
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For the record, Glenn has been steadfastly adamant about not taking his word on any matter ...

From Glenn Beck's final episode: Glenn Beck Bows Out at FOX News – His Show Broke Every Single Record at 5 PM Timeslot | The Gateway Pundit

His run on FOX was epic. His ratings rivaled the FOX nightly lineup and dwarfed the liberal competition.
The leftist mob learned to hate him with a passion. The tea party conservatives loved him. He was a teacher, an entertainer and a storyteller.
...
Glenn leaves his viewers with this: “Never give up. Believe in yourself… You have to find out for yourself what is true.”
​

I am sure Glenn Beck is appreciative of you providing an advertisement space for him.

As for critically reading history, I do not need him or anyone else to feather the bed of knowledge for me with his particular concoction of shallow, Neoconservative politicking. I definitely do not need him to tell me how to sell my soul in the name of an emotionalized, wishy-washy Christian ecumenism.

I guess Beck and the professed orthodox Christians who follow him forgot to read the history of the Church where Arianism and Monophysitism were condemned as rank heresies at Nicaea and Chalcedon?​

 

[NightHawkeye]

Something tells me by this statement that you are going to say there are no prophets here or that they cannot be called that because none of their predictions are slated to occur yet.

LOL ... nope ...

What I think is that you don't know what you're talking about. If you did, you could provide specifics.

... know what I mean?

Then why not merely take his advice rather than watch his GBtv, listen to his radio show, and buy his wares?

Because I find him to be entertaining and informative.

It is those things which cloud people's minds ...

I find Glenn to be an honest broker of information ...

I am sure Glenn Beck is appreciative of you providing an advertisement space for him.

I did not bring the subject up, Tzaousios. I merely responded to your trashing him with a broad sweeping generality ...

Point-counter-point. That's what we do here ... isn't it great?

As for critically reading history, I do not need him or anyone else to feather the bed of knowledge for me with his particular concoction of shallow ...

I'm guessing that you don't watch news programs on ABC, NBC, CBS or Fox News either then, do you? I'm sure you wouldn't want to pollute your mind with news collected by their network news departments.​

Now that I think about it, how do you get your news, Tzaousias? Are you a Luddite? No offense, just curious ...​

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[Tzaousios]

There are not many humans that take criticism kindly. However, it often depends on the way the criticism is offered. Attitude...both of the giver and the receiver is key.

Why are you and Nighthawkeye trying to generalize my point out of existence? No, I am not talking about "many humans," but the individuals who come and go with their prophecies in General Theology, and feign righteous outrage when someone else would dare question them.

It's the nature of the beast. For instance, you yourself (with the very difficult name) don't appear willing to discuss....rather are you yourself not demonizing others as copouts? Not all are ya' know.

What about my screenname? I do not see why that should be an issue at all except contrarianism for the sake of being contrary.

As for what I am willing to do, I most certainly have demonstrated that I am willing to discuss things. So far I have answered every reply to my posts. If I did not think that my views were legitimate, and therefore copouts, I would not have posted them in the first place. My criticisms have been specific, but I have not resorted to tossing about "doctrines of demons/men" to score quick points and win sympathy.

Perhaps what you see as arrogance is assurance, confidence....as well as true arrogance. It's a mixed bag but...that's life.

Okay, but I do not think it is particularly helpful to relativize my point out of existence. I will say that in general it usually comes off as arrogance, as the comments of others besides the followers have attested.

Nope...not joking at all. I feel Beck did what he did, was placed where he was, at a specific time for a purpose....and it is our Father that guided him.

That sounds like a reconfiguration of the Hegelian language of the World Historical Spirit and its Vessel, which the liberal intellectual elite uses constantly to fawn over President Obama, to prop up Glenn Beck's platform.

Tell me, why didn't our Father preserve Glenn Beck from error concerning the relationship of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father, as well as the person of Christ himself? Surely he would be more concerned with a person's sincere theological beliefs than the vagaries of Neoconservative political discourse...

 

[NightHawkeye]

Why are you and Nighthawkeye trying to generalize my point out of existence? No, I am not talking about "many humans," but the individuals who come and go with their prophecies in General Theology, and feign righteous outrage when someone else would dare question them.

Generalize?

Excuse me ... you make broad sweeping generalized accusations ... without substantiating them ... and then accuse me of generalizing? What?

Sorry, Tzaousios ... I'm not getting a warm fuzzy that you're interested in a sincere, honest discourse ...

That sounds like a reconfiguration of the Hegelian language of the World Historical Spirit and its Vessel, which the liberal intellectual elite uses constantly to fawn over President Obama, to prop up Glenn Beck's platform.

Uhh ... I'm sorry ... could ya mebbe lower the intellectual level of that statement so I could mebbe grasp some of the implicit message implied in the greater context of the philosophical content therein ... or something like that ... I'm pretty literal, if ya know what I mean.

Tell me, why didn't our Father preserve Glenn Beck from error concerning the relationship of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father, as well as the person of Christ himself? Surely he would be more concerned with a person's sincere theological beliefs than the vagaries of Neoconservative political discourse...

Ever consider that maybe God likes Mormons, too?

... just sayin'.


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[Tzaousios]

What I think is that you don't know what you're talking about. If you did, you could provide specifics.

... know what I mean?

In other words, because I bring criticism of something held dear, I am guilty of falling prey to "doctrines of men/demons," "am spiritually blind," and "do not have ears to hear?"

I have already described the elements with which I disagree. So far you have taken issue with the fact that I don't buy Beck's politics rather than anything theological.

Because I find him to be entertaining and informative.

That's fine; you have the freedom to do so. However, I disagree when professed orthodox Christians allow the theological and religious sentiments (even when clothed in political rhetoric) of a Christological heretic to inform their worldview. Just because he criticizes Obama and stands against anti-Semitism does not mean Christians have any business taking in what he says.

I find Glenn to be an honest broker of information ...

See, this is where you are taken in by the rhetoric of the presentation. It is not cold, hard, unvarnished "information." It is definitely not "truth." You choose to take it in as merely "information" because you already agree with a certain number of Beck's political presuppositions. That has secured you trust in the source.

I merely responded to your trashing him with a broad sweeping generality ...

Which I did nothing of the sort, but stated specifically why I disagree with Beck and that Christians place their trust in him.

I'm guessing that you don't watch news programs on ABC, NBC, CBS or Fox News either then, do you? I'm sure you wouldn't want to pollute your mind with news collected by their network news departments.

Now that I think about it, how do you get your news, Tzaousias? Are you a Luddite? No offense, just curious ...​

Ha!, yeah, no offense taken. Why would I be offended?

Seriously, though, I am getting the impression that because I have brought criticism of internet prophesying and the Neoconservative, Evangelical Protestant political darling Glenn Beck, my conservative credentials are being doubted. As I told 1whirlwind, I am not an NWO liberal secular humanist who is trying to infiltrate the discussion.

To answer your question, I do read the news. If I have to watch it, it does tend to be Fox News more often than not (gasp!). I cannot stand the alphabet networks or cable news outlets.​