Tattoos

[TasManOfGod]

God is interested in our physical as well as our spiritual well being -that is why He doesn't want us to indulge in pagan practices or do unnecessary irreparable damage to our bodies. A particular tattoo may well fit into both categories.

 

[I'ddie4him]

As much as I have great respect and regard for Orthodox Jews, it seems to me that if they were so good at understanding their scriptures, they'd recognise their Messiah in them.

I think there's a great deal to learn from them but very often their interpretation of laws is overly complicated and more about Talmud than Torah. Jesus had this very issue with them when He walked among them. Compare His teaching on law to the Pharisees and you'll soon see that while they had much right, Jesus wasn't a fan of their extrabiblical burdens and legalistic interpretations. To my mind - their stance on tattoos is one such example.

Very true Splayd.

 

[I'ddie4him]

So then - it is still a no no to shave?

I'd like to know this too.
So far the applications of Levitical scripture has been inconsistent at best and cannot be adequately interpreted or adhered too in it's entirity so it seems.

 

[Inperfected]

QUOTE!!God is interested in our physical as well as our spiritual well being -that is why He doesn't want us to indulge in pagan practices or do unnecessary irreparable damage to our bodies. A particular tattoo may well fit into both categories.

 

[TheDag]

God is interested in our physical as well as our spiritual well being -that is why He doesn't want us to indulge in pagan practices or do unnecessary irreparable damage to our bodies. A particular tattoo may well fit into both categories.

I can't recall one single person here who has even slightly suggested that God would be happy for us to indulge in pagan practices. Nor has anyone suggested God isn't interested in our physical well being although an argument could be formed against that which could cause doubts imo. So really it doesn't need to be mentioned. Where people are disagreeing is your interpretation of the verse. I say your interpretation because not all versions actually mention tattoos specifically. Numerous don't so one needs to ask the question as to why some do. It is generally the literal translations that don't use tattoo. So why do other versions feel the need to put it in? That question needs to be answered.

You still have not by the way explained how you determine which category to put the Levitical instructions in yet. You have mentioned the categories but not how to determine which law fits in which category. You even mentioned that verse 27 has to do with pagan traditions in Egypt and therefore no longer needs to be observed yet you haven't explained why verse 28 does not fall in that category considering it was also a pagan ritual done in Egypt. Why is verse 28 applying to us today still yet verse 27 doesn't considering both are pagan traditions?

 

[anonymousAdviser]

How do yall fell about tatoos. I have a friend of mine who just got one, and is still trying to prove to him selve that thier aint nothing wrong with them. Please give me book chapter verse where it talks about body markings.

Why would you look for a verse... to justify your own judgement?

The Law asks the Hebrews not to get tattoos, however, we are not under the Law. If we try and live by the Law, we sin against the cross of faith.

You should judge based on Scripture, then you do not have to "look up" things or twist Scripture to your own opinion.

Scripture should be the guide.

Can tattoos be sinful? Absolutely. Usually, people get them to win the praise of their fellow men. This is sinful. It is vanity and it reveals that someone considers not the word of God, but the words of men. It shows weakness.

But, can tattoos be good? Absolutely. God says to make a sign on your head and your hand. I could see where someone might tattoo something godly as a personal reminder to themself.

But, I have almost never seen anyone do a tattoo for this reason... instead, they take the flesh, which is the House of God, the Temple, and they color meanly on it with these things. Beautiful? The flesh is ruined by these crude drawings... just as we ruin landscapes with our crude buildings. Compare man's work to God's work? There is no comparison. (Though, cities must be built...)

Regardless, if your friend did this to impress others... it is a very sad thing to do. Such people crave to get the admiration of others. The false prophets were guided by this inner desire of their ego.

Surely, none of us are so completely separated from society that we wish to never hear a kind word... but for many, if not most... they have no understanding of religiousness or virtue at all, unless it is by appearances.

We should know, as Christians, such sinfulness is at the very base of all sinfulness... it is a core and all important sin and direction to go in.

Who prays in publics? Who fasts openly so all may know? Whose religion is false? Those whom seek the praise of their fellows instead of the praise of God.

Such is the way of all flesh...

 

[Splayd]

You should judge based on Scripture, then you do not have to "look up" things or twist Scripture to your own opinion.

Scripture should be the guide.

Ummm... How can you judge based on scripture if you don't look up scripture? How can scripture be a guide if you determine not to follow what it says?

 

[herev]

I'd like to know this too.
So far the applications of Levitical scripture has been inconsistent at best and cannot be adequately interpreted or adhered too in it's entirity so it seems.

based on what I've read here in this thread, it seems easy to understand. Do this and you can see:

1. if you agree with a verse in leviticus, you follow it literally and insist other do
2. if you don't agree with a verse in the same chapter, you say it's obviously cultural or situated only in a specific time for a specific people, therefore not binding on us today

case closed.

 

[Inperfected]

Very well put.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Because getting yourself tattooed as a Christian is a decision that you will have to live with for the rest of your life (and perhaps beyond) it might be well to get wise council on the matter. Personally I could think of none wiser than what God told to the Children of Israel.

 

[Inperfected]

Because getting yourself tattooed as a Christian is a decision that you will have to live with for the rest of your life (and perhaps beyond) it might be well to get wise council on the matter.

Hi there

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with you last sentance, I think the above piece of advice is the best statement in this thread so far.

 

[TheDag]

Hey TasManOfGod
I'm still waiting for you to explain how to determine which of the laws fall into which categories. Not to mention how two pagan practices which took place in egypt fall into different categories one of which we need to follow and the other which we do need to follow. I will read it and will change my mind if need be. People have often noted that I am open to correction and seek others opinions not just my own. So please can you provide an answer.

 

[A4C]

..http://www.biblebelievers.com/watkins_tattoos/intro.html

 

[Splayd]

Pssst... TasMan

Your sock is showing

 

[Redneck Crow]

I am a Christian. I eat pork. I wear clothing of mixed fibers. I don't sacrifice bulls, doves, or goats. I even eat leavened bread during passover. And I don't eat the lamb of a sheep or of a goat upon said occasion because frankly I don't like the taste.

The Law had a couple of components. Part of it was civil--how to make restitution if you have harmed another or committed an offense against God. How you didn't steal your neighbor's wife.

The other was symbolic. Israel was to show herself as set aside by dressing in a prescribed manner, refraining from certain foods, circumcising their infant males, etc. The prohibition against tattoos was part of this.

The Law didn't make things wrong, it pointed them out as wrong. When Cain killed his brother Abel, it was wrong, and long before the Law was given.

Overall, the Law functioned as a tutor. Paul spelled this out for us. It's function was to show us that we needed Christ as savior because we could not be righteous of our own acts.

We as Christians are not bound by the Law. It's fulfilled it's purpose for us. We are under civil law, the law of our governments. We are furthur instructed to behave morally, love God, and love others and treat them as we would ourselves. We don't need the Law to spell these things out for us in every specific case. We have the Spirit, our Counsellor, to help us.

It saddens me that Christians not only try to put themselves and other Christians under the Law, but miss the overall purpose of the Law--tutorage. It was to instruct mankind in their need for Christ, from the Jews setting themselves aside as a separate people to ultimately showing humanity our need for Christ because we cannot be perfect of our own acts. If we have come to Christ, the Law has served it's purpose.

Tattoos don't mean squat. They don't harm our fellow man, our relationship with God, nor are they immoral in and of themselves.

I don't have them because I don't want them. I do have pierced ears because I like to wear earrings, and it doesn't affect my relationship with Him one way or another, and I don't give any worry to it. These are things that don't really matter. My relationships with Christ and with my fellow man do.

And on ending on that thought, I'm going to get up, make myself a ham and cheese sandwich, then sit here in my cotton/polyester clothing and read and maybe post a little more.

I'm a Christian, and dead to the Law. I'm going to enjoy the freedom that is ours in Jesus Christ.

 

[TasManOfGod]

pesky alternate users

Hey TasManOfGod
I'm still waiting for you to explain how to determine which of the laws fall into which categories. Not to mention how two pagan practices which took place in egypt fall into different categories one of which we need to follow and the other which we do need to follow. I will read it and will change my mind if need be. People have often noted that I am open to correction and seek others opinions not just my own. So please can you provide an answer.

I have answered your query throughout this thread and do not feel inclined to repeat myself continually. May God bless you as you seek
I do however remind you that this is perhaps the best site on the internet in respect to Christians considering tattoos as a marking for life:
http://www.biblebelievers.com/watkins_tattoos/intro.html

 

[BereanTodd]

Redneck Crow above said it best, but we are under grace, not the law. We are not bound by the law in any way. This is not even to mention the fact that the one pertinent OT passage is speaking of a pagan religious practice, and a Christian getting a tattoo is not seeking to follow a pagan practice.

The question of tattoos ultimately, in my mind at least, comes down to the question with anything else - what is our motivation? I am not tattooed, but there is one I have been wanting for some time, an when I graduate in April I'm going to get it. It's a design made for me by a friend, it is the crown of thorns done in a tribal fashion, with the three spikes going through it. I'm getting the tattoo as a symbol of my undying faith to Christ, and as a witnessing tool to the lost whom I minister to.

 

[TheDag]

I have answered your query throughout this thread and do not feel inclined to repeat myself continually. May God bless you as you seek
I do however remind you that this is perhaps the best site on the internet in respect to Christians considering tattoos as a marking for life:
http://www.biblebelievers.com/watkins_tattoos/intro.html

Sorry I should have made myself clearer. You have answered most of it. However you have not answered why one pagan practice is something that is ok today but another pagan practice is forbidden today. They are in consecutive verses. There must be a good reason why we can ignore one but must follow the other.


I have only read four pages from the link. There are however a number of questions asked by others in this thread which have not been answered and other questions that I have from those articles. If I was to observe you then I could easily find things you do that have connections to idol worship I'm sure. That of course raises the question is the origin of the practice important or not?

The article also stated

[FONT=Arial, helvetica]"Whenever missionaries encountered tattooing they eradicated it."
(Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 101)[/FONT]

Can you list other things that were amongst the things they tried to outlaw? Language was one of them and that was before they outlawed tattoos. Are you suggesting we forbid speaking in other languages? I could list numerous other things christians tried to outlaw. If your familiar with Australian history then you would be well aware of a number of them. Somehow the argument that this is what was done in the past so it must be right always falls flat with me. This is just one of many issues I have with the article.

I wonder if you also believe that Epilepsy means someone is demon possessed? After all that was the belief for ages. Only mid to late last century did thinking change on that. Yet the article uses arguments that would mean one MUST conclude epileptics are demon possessed.

 

[JoshuaM]

well if they believe epilepsy means demon-possessed, they have a problem. Epilepsy is generally caused by genetics or head trauma. I have Epilepsy and the Bible doesn't say anything about neurological conditions separating man from God.

Also, it doesn't matter if some Christians are prejudice against tattooed people, as the Bible specifically refers to markings and cuttings in honor of the dead. I have two tattoos, and one is specifically symbolic of Christ' sacrifice and God's love, which can be used for witnessing. The other is a cartoon. It isn't in honor of the dead, and though it would stay on this body in this life, it won't be when God changes us for heaven. Again, it isn't in honor of the dead, and also it isn't anti-Christian, and neither is it any demonic imagery. I don't put my tattoos before my relationship with God either. Neither have I ever felt convicted about it. If you try to say I am not a Christian because you believe all tattoos are evil, then read that verse in Leviticus again and look up how we receive salvation, because stretching markings and cuttings for the dead to all markings, and stretching the fact that somebody got a mark to not being Christian because of differances in opinion is utterly ridiculous.

 

[wayfaring man]

How do yall fell about tatoos. I have a friend of mine who just got one, and is still trying to prove to him selve that thier aint nothing wrong with them. Please give me book chapter verse where it talks about body markings.

Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. <-----> 1st Peter 3:3+4

adorning -

G2889
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kosmos
kos'-mos
Probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, that is, decoration; by implication the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]): - adorning, world.

Not outward adorning ... but inward .

Not of the skin / flesh ... but of the heart / spirit .

And May The Lord Be Pleased .

wm