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Talmud?? Torah??

Christy4Christ

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I have been hearing alot about how the translations I have of the OT are not quite the same as the original Hebrew. Is this where the Talmud comes in? Is this where the Torah comes in? Is there a good English version of either of these books that I should read? Further, as a gentile, am I obligated to know them? Would it be a good idea for me to know them? I'm a little confused lately. :(
 

simchat_torah

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The Talmud is a commentary on the Mishnah. The Mishnah is a commentary on the laws found in the Torah. The Torah is the first five books of the bible.

A good translation of the Torah is the JPS Tenach.
A good translation of the Mishnah is by Jacob Neusner.
I wouldn't reccomend actually picking up the Talmud as it is much larger than the Encyclopedia Brittanica! However, there are places that sell it on CD with a search engine, etc.

As far as study is concerned... I think it is a good thing for everyone to at least have a familiar knowledge of these texts. Y'shua often referred to them indirectly if not outright quoted many of these Judaic sources. Whether you base your theology upon these books is quite another thing. However, I believe it is a good thing that everyone has a familiarity with these texts.... Jew and Gentile.

Study can only do one good ;)

Shalom,
yafet
 
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Christy4Christ

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simchat_torah said:
The Talmud is a commentary on the Mishnah. The Mishnah is a commentary on the laws found in the Torah. The Torah is the first five books of the bible.

A good translation of the Torah is the JPS Tenach.
A good translation of the Mishnah is by Jacob Neusner.
I wouldn't reccomend actually picking up the Talmud as it is much larger than the Encyclopedia Brittanica! However, there are places that sell it on CD with a search engine, etc.

As far as study is concerned... I think it is a good thing for everyone to at least have a familiar knowledge of these texts. Y'shua often referred to them indirectly if not outright quoted many of these Judaic sources. Whether you base your theology upon these books is quite another thing. However, I believe it is a good thing that everyone has a familiarity with these texts.... Jew and Gentile.

Study can only do one good ;)

Shalom,
yafet
Thank you Yafet, I will look for these books.
 
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Flavius665

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When I used to be a christian I thought of the Talmud almost as a devil book but when I became Messianic I got the everymans Talmud by Cohen and studied it.Everyone should study anything that has to do with the history of Israel,The Talmud is a vital source of information that if we didnt have it there would be lots of gaps for instance.when it pertains to the feasts,there is alot of info there that can't be found elsewhere plus if somebody ever hopes to speak to a non believing jew he should try and learn what they know and believe.Lotsa cool things in the Talmud.
 
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iitb

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Flavius665 said:
When I used to be a christian I thought of the Talmud almost as a devil book but when I became Messianic I got the everymans Talmud by Cohen and studied it.
You know, I have that book in my apartment somewhere. Maybe I should find it...

As mentioned in our "Online Texts" thread, Sacred Texts has the Talmud available at http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm . Due to it's size, it can be a little overwhelming, so you might want to start with something like the previously mentioned Everyman's Talmud.
 
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simchat_torah

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Everyman's Talmud is a great book... I'd also reccomend The Essential Talmud. Everyman's Talmud is a bit more of an introductory level, but the Essential Talmud is a great reference handbook as well, dividing everything according to categories. It too is a small paperback book and a simple read.

Here is a review found at Amazon.com:
Rabbi Steinsaltz, one of the most respected Talmudists of his generation, has devoted significant effort to introducing the Talmud to a wider audience and encouraging people to actually read it rather than merely read about it. Starting to read the Talmud without some idea of what it is and what it is about would be a very frustrating project, however, and this book is intended to help bridge that gap.


"The Essential Talmud" is divided into three sections, covering history, content and method. The historical section gives a very traditional account of the origins of the Talmud in the oral Torah, and its compilation and editing in Palestine and Babylon. By "traditional" I mean that this is essentially the account that the Talmud gives of itself or that can be filled in from other rabbinic literature. Whether or not this history is completely accurate, it is a significant part of the Talmud's self-presentation and of its authority, and throws important light on both the Talmud's content (largely the teachings of prior masters) and its methods (the obsessive quest to identify the authors of and reconcile the various teachings). In short, it is very difficult to understand the Talmud if you do not understand where the Talmud believes it came from, and Rabbi Steinsaltz's chapters on history are very helpful in that regard. He then goes beyond the Talmud itself to offer a brief history of Talmudic exegesis, and some very interesting information on the printing and persecution of the Talmud.

The second section of the book covers the structure and content of the Talmud. Here Rabbi Steinsaltz offers a very concise summary of the topics touched on by the various tractates of the Talmud. These very brief chapters can do no more than give one a sense of the general subject matter covered, but they successfully provide a general overview. What I found lacking in this section was the complete absence of any citations to the Talmud itself, or any bibliography for further reading on the various subjects. It is easy enough to guess that most of the material on marriage will be found somewhere in Tractates Ketubot and Kiddushin, but it is less easy to determine the source for his comments on the status of women or on ethics and halakhah. Some citations here would have been nice, in case the reader is sufficiently intrigued to want to read more. For example, in the chapter on ethics, Rabbi Steinsaltz summarizes rabbinic thinking on the sometimes conflicting claims of justice ("truth") and compromise ("peace"). I would love to read more on this subject, but I don't know where in the Talmud (or in other commentaries) to look. (For a more detailed look at the subject matter of the Talmud, see Abraham Cohen's "Everyman's Talmud," which has chapters that cover most of the tractate subjects, and additionally pulls together material on other subjects (such as the nature of God, sin and repentance, and so on) that is scattered throughout the Talmud.)

The third section of the book is entitled "Method," and while it is in some ways the most intriguing part of the book, it is also in some ways the least successful. Here Rabbi Steinsaltz attempts to give the reader a sense of how the Talmud operates, what problems it studies, how it approaches those problems, and how it uses logic, midrash and aggadah to achieve its goals. There are many interesting insights here *if* you already have some experience with reading Talmud. The real difficulty is the almost complete lack of concrete examples or actual text from the Talmud to illustrate Rabbi Steinsaltz's points. Overall, I found this to be a good summary of basic points that someone new to Talmud study needs to know. The book is well written and easy to read. The failure to include any extended passages of text is a major flaw, however, and makes it impossible for this book to really capture the "essence" of the Talmud.
 
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Flavius665

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justinhulsey said:
You know, I have that book in my apartment somewhere. Maybe I should find it...

As mentioned in our "Online Texts" thread, Sacred Texts has the Talmud available at http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm . Due to it's size, it can be a little overwhelming, so you might want to start with something like the previously mentioned Everyman's Talmud.

I'll check that out,I wasn't aware there was a talmud out there I could read besides Cohen or I would have gotten it.I like big books, I think I read Josephus 30 times now hence my name,I carried that book around for about ba year till I borrowed it to sum1 and never got it back.anyway thanks
 
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