Talk about ironic.

[Mankin]

While googling about the Beast I came across this article regarding several myths about the pope. One of them dealt with the 666 agenda. This part of the article stood out.

Using the same math exercise we did above, point out that the name of the woman who started the Seventh-Day Adventist church, Ellen Gould White, also adds up to 666 in Latin. (L + L + V + D + V + V + I = 666). Then ask if this proves that she is the Beast. I can assure you the answer won't be "yes." If the answer is "no," ask how this numbers game could possibly prove the pope or anyone else is the Beast. If you're answered with silence, it's a good bet that you've made some progress with the person

Wow, talk about pointing four fingers back at yourself eh? The orginal article. http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/POPEAPOL.HTM#5

I haven't ready all of it yet but it interesting.

 

[k4c]

There are many people who have names that match 666 but this is not the only grounds for the Pope being the head of the antichrist beast kingdom. If you take the totality of verses that identify the antichrist beast kingdom and match them up with Papal Rome it will leave no doubt in your mind as to who God is referring to.

 

[mva1985]

There are many people who have names that match 666 but this is not the only grounds for the Pope being the head of the antichrist beast kingdom. If you take the totality of verses that identify the antichrist beast kingdom and match them up with Papal Rome it will leave no doubt in your mind as to who God is referring to.

+1

 

[Mankin]

It describes the antichrist as a military power. The pope of today might be powerful socially but he has absolutely no military power. Also, like the article said the pope has never been identified as a king. Do I believe the pope could be the beast of play some part in the last days, possibly.

 

[guibox]

k4c is correct. The other characteristics of the anti-christ/little horn power, must be taken into consideration too.

However, I think the problem with identifying the number 666 with numerology is two fold:

1) Latin didn't exist as a language in the NT church..Greek was the common tongue. We have to take into consideration that John was also writing this for the 1st century church. If he expected God's church to do any numerological calculations, we should be looking at the Greek, not the Latin.

2) The 'number of the man' is literally, 'a human number' or a 'number of mankind'. Not a 'number of a literal head of church or kingdom'

Many of our scholars today such as Bacchiocchi, Angel Rodriguez and Jon Paulien are correct in saying that 666 should be considered a symbolic number of an imperfect power.

Once we start pigeon hole-ing ourselves into a corner with dates and calculations, we have no where to go when things are shown to be incorrect.

 

[mva1985]

It describes the antichrist as a military power. The pope of today might be powerful socially but he has absolutely no military power. Also, like the article said the pope has never been identified as a king. Do I believe the pope could be the beast of play some part in the last days, possibly.

The anti-christ gets its power from the lamb like beast with two horns aka USA.

 

[StormyOne]

The anti-christ gets its power from the lamb like beast with two horns aka USA.

ummm not quite..... but I suppose it works for some...

 

[mva1985]

The anti-christ gets its power from the lamb like beast with two horns aka USA.

ummm not quite..... but I suppose it works for some...

Rev. 13:11 & 12

 

[Mankin]

One of the reasons people were loath to elect JFK was because of his Catholic connections and their fear of him being a pawn of the pope. Of course with the President we've got now, we would probably be better off if he took orders from the pope!

 

[StormyOne]

Rev. 13:11 & 12

no consensus on who that passage is referring to.. however given the background and proof-texting that was done to arrive at said identity its not surprising..... hint the first identifier is wrong.... The beast comes up in a sparsely populated area... that was NOT North America.... neither was the U.S. founded on civil and religious liberty..... but as I said, the explanation works for some....

 

[Windmill]

While I do understand your point Mankin, the reason as to why the traditional adventist belief is that the Catholic Church is the little horn, is for reasons that far exceed 666.

The number is but one sign.

Not that I'm arguing for it either way, I do not wish to do that

 

[moicherie]

Rev. 13:11 & 12

Is this based on the racist interpretation that America is the beast cos it came from the wilderness meaning it was uninhabited? I guess someone forgot to tell the Native Americans that...

 

[moicherie]

no consensus on who that passage is referring to.. however given the background and proof-texting that was done to arrive at said identity its not surprising..... hint the first identifier is wrong.... The beast comes up in a sparsely populated area... that was NOT North America.... neither was the U.S. founded on civil and religious liberty..... but as I said, the explanation works for some....

Our Adventist pioneers were not immune from an Anglo Eurocentric world view - bless their ignorant little hearts....

 

[mva1985]

Is this based on the racist interpretation that America is the beast cos it came from the wilderness meaning it was uninhabited? I guess someone forgot to tell the Native Americans that...

what does "racist" have to do with any of this?

 

[mva1985]

Compared to the Eastern world the Western world was sparsely populated.

 

[StormyOne]

Compared to the Eastern world the Western world was sparsely populated.

Not even..... how many Native Americans were killed in the "sparsely populated" North America? Racist in the sense that the interpretation of the "prophecy" hinges on a european view of what/who is important and who is not.... There were a significant number of native americans living in North America before the "settlers" arrived with their vision of Manifest Destiny. So only a ethnocentrist would suggest that an area populated by people is sparsely populated... likewise an ethnocentrist would suggest that America was "discovered" and other such foolishness...

 

[moicherie]

Compared to the Eastern world the Western world was sparsely populated.

I see some of our Adventist 21st century members still have an Anglo eurocentric world view.... bless their still ignorant little hearts......

 

[mva1985]

That is the second time I have been called ethnocentric, now its Anglo. Maybe I should toss around some pejoratives.

 

[moicherie]

That is the second time I have been called ethnocentric, now its Anglo. Maybe I should toss around some pejoratives.

Well if I write a response that suggests the only biblical interpretation of Revelation that matters should be based on an Afro Carribbean with an English twist world view then go ahead.
After all Australia was sparsely populated and discovered by English Captain Cooke never mind the Aborgines who were living there so maybe Australia is the beast of Revelation..mmmmmm

 

[StormyOne]

That is the second time I have been called ethnocentric, now its Anglo. Maybe I should toss around some pejoratives.

toss them around.... no one is calling you anything except an MVA alum... the fact remains, there was a significant number of Native Americans here prior to the settlers arriving... the interpretation of Rev 13 is based on ignoring this central fact... it is based on a european worldview in which Native Americans were not viewed as significant....

Likewise this nation was founded on taking whatever they wanted, which consisted of land from those who were already living here.... so let's not perpetuate the myths, call it was it was... systematic genocide.... the civil and religious liberty idea is a myth, or it didn't apply to those already living here..... that is my point....