Taliban attacks Facebook over freedom of speech concerns

[durangodawood]

Amazing how similiar the taliban sound compared with western conservatives, isn't it?

There's return to original-purity motive at the heart of conservatism generally. In its extreme forms its like the mirror image of radical left wing utopianism.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Question about freedom of speech ‘should be asked of those ... who do not allow publication of foreign information and news,’ Taliban spokesman says

Ouch! It must sting to get a lesson on free speech from the Taliban! And unlike Joe Biden, he is taking and answering questions from the media.

It's also interesting to note that the Taliban's official spokesman appears to have an active Twitter account, whereas the former president of the United States has been banned from Twitter.

I must have missed where Facebook is a government that guarantees the right of free speech. His whole answer is a deflection based on a straw man argument and y’all fell for it pretty easily.

 

[JustSomeBloke]

The Taliban suck, and if you think they have any kind of ground to stand on here, you should really, really rethink the implications of what you're arguing for.

I don't think anyone in the West likes the Taliban. However, as the saying goes, a stopped clock is right twice a day, and that is the case here. The Taliban may have many abhorrent values and behaviours, but they were absolutely right in criticising the hypocrisy of the West.

Opening a dialogue with North Korea was one of Donald Trump's biggest achievements. How many other US presidents succeeded in doing that? All the others just stuck to the standard playbook, and as a result achieved absolutely nothing.

I must have missed where Facebook is a government that guarantees the right of free speech. His whole answer is a deflection based on a straw man argument and y’all fell for it pretty easily.

I'm guessing you don't see how hilarious this situation is, that it takes a group that is well known for being oppressive, to point out the hypocrisy of the 'liberal' big-tech CEOs, who regulate social media in the West, and control what you're allowed to say. I'm sorry if you can't see it, because it really is some funny stuff!

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I'm guessing you don't see how hilarious this situation is, that it takes a group that is well known for being oppressive, to point out the hypocrisy of the 'liberal' big-tech CEOs, who regulate social media in the West, and control what you're allowed to say. I'm sorry if you can't see it, because it really is some funny stuff!

Not quite as hilarious as American conservatives falling for obvious taliban propaganda.

 

[JustSomeBloke]

Not quite as hilarious as American conservatives falling for obvious taliban propaganda.

Good grief! Nobody has fallen for 'obvious Taliban propaganda'. The reason it's all so funny is that one bunch of hypocrites is calling another bunch of people out for being hypocrites. Don't you see it?! If you still haven't worked it out then I give up!

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I agree, it's hardly surprising, seeing as it's usually the Left wing socialists and communists that trample all over freedom of speech.

* Soviet era Russia, and Communist China, are the most egregious examples from history.

If conservative stopped lying to it's viewers, then we would have no problems.

 

[durangodawood]

.....Opening a dialogue with North Korea was one of Donald Trump's biggest achievements. How many other US presidents succeeded in doing that? All the others just stuck to the standard playbook, and as a result achieved absolutely nothing.....

Sorry, what did Trump's "love letters" achieve exactly?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Good grief! Nobody has fallen for 'obvious Taliban propaganda'. The reason it's all so funny is that one bunch of hypocrites is calling another bunch of people out for being hypocrites. Don't you see it?! If you still haven't worked it out then I give up!

I see it just fine. I just don’t think the guy really knows that he’s talking about and neither do the people agreeing with him. He’s making a false equivalence between the policies of a private company (Facebook) and the ideals of western democracy (free speech). Our first amendment is a limit of what government can do about your speech but private companies aren’t governments and the terms you agree to follow to have an account with Facebook have clear limitations on what you can and cannot say and do on their platform. You don’t have free speech on Facebook. No one does. We never have and never will.

He’s playing on a division we have here and conservatives seem more than happy to amplify his point for him because they think it somehow implicates the left. It doesn’t. His entire point is predicated on a misunderstanding of constitutional law and private industry and is intended to shift the focus of the question away from himself.

And you’re falling for it.

 

[dzheremi]

I don't think anyone in the West likes the Taliban. However, as the saying goes, a stopped clock is right twice a day, and that is the case here.

I don't think that saying is meant to be high praise for the clock.

The Taliban may have many abhorrent values and behaviours, but they were absolutely right in criticising the hypocrisy of the West.

No they aren't. Again, this is just cynical authoritarianism. The fact that you appear to be falling for it is just sad. There is a political term for this that I don't know if I can use here because it could be taken to be mocking another member (though I obviously didn't come up with it myself), but nevertheless I can't think of a better application of it than a situation in which a westerner is siding with the Taliban on freedom of speech concerns, of all things. It's not like the Taliban is out there advocating for free lunches for school children or something. They're very clearly attempting to use the West's famous openness against it, and we can see by the very existence of this thread why they would do such a thing (because it works), despite how shameless it reveals them to be.

Opening a dialogue with North Korea was one of Donald Trump's biggest achievements. How many other US presidents succeeded in doing that? All the others just stuck to the standard playbook, and as a result achieved absolutely nothing.

You seem to have a knack for pointing out these situations where U.S. politics are exploited by dictatorial regimes. It is definitely debatable just what Trump actually achieved in his talks with Kim Jong Un, beyond perhaps getting the bragging rights that come with being the first U.S. president to meet with a North Korean leader face to face. It is clear that their talks did not stop North Korea from conducting further tests and missile launches, as shown by their confirmation in early October of 2019 that they were conducting new tests of missile launches from submarines. (Trump and Kim met in June of that year.)

I'm guessing you don't see how hilarious this situation is

Because it's not hilarious at all. It's just kind of sad and vaguely unsettling.

that it takes a group that is well known for being oppressive, to point out the hypocrisy of the 'liberal' big-tech CEOs, who regulate social media in the West, and control what you're allowed to say.

Since we're on a Christian website, do you ever wonder why Jesus told the unclean spirit to keep silent regarding His being the Christ (Mark 1:23-26; Luke 4:33-35)? It is because the truth can be made to appear as a dirty lie when it comes from an unclean source.

I would say something similar regarding any situation such as this: being right in the abstract is not good enough, particularly not in a situation such as the one you are describing wherein there are plenty other avenues by which to address free speech concerns on the internet that don't appear to give succor to those who would just as soon cut all our heads off for even having a Christian forum to begin with. There's certainly no such luxury in Afghanistan, and I definitely don't mean that in the sense that Afghanistan is a poor country, so probably a lot of its population outside of the main cities does not have much access to the internet in the first place.

I'm sorry if you can't see it, because it really is some funny stuff!

Again, it's really not funny.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

I guess the question should be what does allowing the Taliban to speak actually hurt?

If they lie. brainwash and recruit people. It's a problem. I'm not sure why we wouldn't think the Taliban aren't dangerous. They're scary, dangerous and sadly powerful. A 20 year war, they silently got stronger. And this is the best is left for the Afghanistan people. I see Taliban possibly taking the world.

 

[JustSomeBloke]

If conservative stopped lying to it's viewers, then we would have no problems.

That's the nature of politics. Two people from two different political parties make the same observation, and come to different conclusions. Politics is subjective. If you haven't worked that out yet, or think that one side mostly lies and the other side mostly tells the truth, then I'm not sure what more I can say to you.

Sorry, what did Trump's "love letters" achieve exactly?

A break from the usual routine. Unlike the usual career politicians that occupy the White House, Trump is a business man, so he understands how to interact with people in a positive manner. What do you think previous presidents achieved with respect to North Korea?

I see it just fine. I just don’t think the guy really knows that he’s talking about and neither do the people agreeing with him. He’s making a false equivalence between the policies of a private company (Facebook) and the ideals of western democracy (free speech). Our first amendment is a limit of what government can do about your speech but private companies aren’t governments and the terms you agree to follow to have an account with Facebook have clear limitations on what you can and cannot say and do on their platform. You don’t have free speech on Facebook. No one does. We never have and never will.

He’s playing on a division we have here and conservatives seem more than happy to amplify his point for him because they think it somehow implicates the left. It doesn’t. His entire point is predicated on a misunderstanding of constitutional law and private industry and is intended to shift the focus of the question away from himself.

And you’re falling for it.

No. It's you that has been well and truly duped here.

Judicial Watch: Documents Show CA State Officials Coordinated with Big Tech to Censor Americans’ Election Posts

How can you not be aware of what is happening in your own country with respect to free speech?

I don't think that saying is meant to be high praise for the clock.



No they aren't. Again, this is just cynical authoritarianism. The fact that you appear to be falling for it is just sad. There is a political term for this that I don't know if I can use here because it could be taken to be mocking another member (though I obviously didn't come up with it myself), but nevertheless I can't think of a better application of it than a situation in which a westerner is siding with the Taliban on freedom of speech concerns, of all things. It's not like the Taliban is out there advocating for free lunches for school children or something. They're very clearly attempting to use the West's famous openness against it, and we can see by the very existence of this thread why they would do such a thing (because it works), despite how shameless it reveals them to be.



You seem to have a knack for pointing out these situations where U.S. politics are exploited by dictatorial regimes. It is definitely debatable just what Trump actually achieved in his talks with Kim Jong Un, beyond perhaps getting the bragging rights that come with being the first U.S. president to meet with a North Korean leader face to face. It is clear that their talks did not stop North Korea from conducting further tests and missile launches, as shown by their confirmation in early October of 2019 that they were conducting new tests of missile launches from submarines. (Trump and Kim met in June of that year.)



Because it's not hilarious at all. It's just kind of sad and vaguely unsettling.



Since we're on a Christian website, do you ever wonder why Jesus told the unclean spirit to keep silent regarding His being the Christ (Mark 1:23-26; Luke 4:33-35)? It is because the truth can be made to appear as a dirty lie when it comes from an unclean source.

I would say something similar regarding any situation such as this: being right in the abstract is not good enough, particularly not in a situation such as the one you are describing wherein there are plenty other avenues by which to address free speech concerns on the internet that don't appear to give succor to those who would just as soon cut all our heads off for even having a Christian forum to begin with. There's certainly no such luxury in Afghanistan, and I definitely don't mean that in the sense that Afghanistan is a poor country, so probably a lot of its population outside of the main cities does not have much access to the internet in the first place.



Again, it's really not funny.

It's quite possible to see humour in a situation, while also acknowledging that there is also tragedy.

And yes, I'm well aware that oppressive regimes use the West's openness against it. But that openness isn't worth much anymore when you have the example I gave above, of big-tech colluding with government to censor political opponents.

 

[dzheremi]

And yes, I'm well aware that oppressive regimes use the West's openness against it. But that openness isn't worth much anymore when you have the example I gave above, of big-tech colluding with government to censor political opponents.

So free speech isn't worth anything anymore when your favored politician isn't allowed to continue to use a private company's services to attempt to destabilize American democracy in the name of not accepting duly certified election results?

Since when do Facebook or any other media platform owe it to Trump or anyone to be their personal microphone, particularly if they determine his usage of it to be in violation of their policies?

 

[durangodawood]

...A break from the usual routine. Unlike the usual career politicians that occupy the White House, Trump is a business man, so he understands how to interact with people in a positive manner. What do you think previous presidents achieved with respect to North Korea?.....

That's only an achievement to people who are dazzled by talk and imagery. Nothing of substance was achieved.

Still, when you say its one of Trumps "biggest achievements", Im inclined to agree.

 

[bèlla]

Brainwashing: a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship

Who can be brainwashed?

It is generally people that are vulnerable in some way and are, therefore, susceptible to a different way of thinking that are more likely to become brainwashed.

How can you be brainwashed?

The person who is trying to brainwash you will want to know everything about you in order to manipulate your beliefs. They will want to find out what your strengths are, your weaknesses, who you trust, who is important to you and who you listen to for advice.

They will then start the process of brainwashing you which typically take five steps:

1. Isolation
2. Attacks on self-esteem
3. Us vs. Them
4. Blind obedience
5. Testing

There are things you can do to stop yourself from being brainwashed:

• Don’t believe all that you read
• Don’t believe the hype
• Don’t buy into fear or scare tactics
• Watch for someone’s agenda
• Look out for subliminal messages
• Follow your own path
• Do your own research
• Listen to your own intuition
• Don’t follow the crowd
• Don’t be afraid to be different

~bella

 

[JustSomeBloke]

So free speech isn't worth anything anymore when your favored politician isn't allowed to continue to use a private company's services to attempt to destabilize American democracy in the name of not accepting duly certified election results?

Since when do Facebook or any other media platform owe it to Trump or anyone to be their personal microphone, particularly if they determine his usage of it to be in violation of their policies?

If you had read my response to GoldenBoy89 (quoted below), then you would know that it's much, much more than just a private company restricting access to their platform.

No. It's you that has been well and truly duped here.

Judicial Watch: Documents Show CA State Officials Coordinated with Big Tech to Censor Americans’ Election Posts

How can you not be aware of what is happening in your own country with respect to free speech?

What is happening here is that big-tech is working hand-in-glove with the US government to censor stuff the US government doesn't like.

Maybe you're not aware of history, but that's exactly what happened in Soviet era Russia. The Soviets had a state newspaper called Pravda (truth), and it was used for disseminating the official line (state propaganda) on everything.

Same happens right now in China. Anything the politburo doesn't approve of is censored. They even banned the Tang Ping (lying flat) movement! It's also worth noting that Western big-tech, such as Google, are so spineless and morally bankrupt, that they agreed to censor their search results in order to get a foothold in the Chinese market.

Anyway, I'm sure there's nothing to worry about here. And I hear that tractor production is up again this month. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

That's only an achievement to people who are dazzled by talk and imagery. Nothing of substance was achieved.

Still, when you say its one of Trumps "biggest achievements", Im inclined to agree.

Unlike most US presidents, Trump was a peacemaker and bridge builder. If I recall correctly, he did not start a single war. How many US presidents can claim that?

 

[durangodawood]

....Unlike most US presidents, Trump was a peacemaker and bridge builder. If I recall correctly, he did not start a single war. How many US presidents can claim that?

Whoa one thing at time. We were discussing your claim that Trump did anything meaningful re N. Korea, which seems to have evaporated under scrutiny.

 

[dzheremi]

If you had read my response to GoldenBoy89 (quoted below), then you would know that it's much, much more than just a private company restricting access to their platform.

Here's the thing about that: I took a look at your judicialwatch.org link (which is a partisan political website that doesn't have a great track record when it comes to reporting actual facts), went to the 540 page document that they claim to have received via a FOIA request, and it's a lot of screenshots from Twitter of tweets by some random nobodies claiming this or that, and then some e-mails from the communications directors and such of various CA representatives explaining the problems with posts that they claim are spreading misinformation. In other words, they actually explain why these are election-related misinformation. They don't just claim that it is and then get their way because Twitter or whoever is in cahoots with the Democratic Party. That is a fantasy maintained by those who really, really desperately want to believe that the 2020 election was beset with massive amounts of fraud, when it wasn't.

What is happening here is that big-tech is working hand-in-glove with the US government to censor stuff the US government doesn't like.

I don't know that it's that the US government doesn't like it, necessarily, but more so that it is false, and leaving it there to be spread around without any countermeasures being taken just leads to exactly the situation we've been in, where +/- half the country believes in an alternate reality full of paranoid conspiracy theories about stolen elections, Trump being 'reinstated', etc. That's an inherently bad situation to be in.

Besides, if Gov. Newsom of California really had all this power to change Californians' votes, you'd think he would've used such supervillainy to stop the recall election from happening. (It's still happening; I just got my voter information packet in the mail the other day.)

Maybe you're not aware of history, but that's exactly what happened in Soviet era Russia. The Soviets had a state newspaper called Pravda (truth), and it was used for disseminating the official line (state propaganda) on everything.

И вместо это Вы предпочу неправду? Если это против "налевой", это хорошо, и лжает невозможно.

(Free translation: Right-wing 'Pravda' is not better.)

Same happens right now in China. Anything the politburo doesn't approve of is censored. They even banned the Tang Ping (lying flat) movement! It's also worth noting that Western big-tech, such as Google, are so spineless and morally bankrupt, that they agreed to censor their search results in order to get a foothold in the Chinese market.

Yes, authoritarian governments the world over are remarkably similar. That's a point I tried to make in my first reply in this thread, so as to highlight why it's not good that the Taliban have criticized Facebook just because you or I would do the same.

Anyway, I'm sure there's nothing to worry about here. And I hear that tractor production is up again this month. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Oh, the comedy. My sides are splitting. Please. Stop it.

 

[Valletta]

The

A new friendship seems to be blossoming between the Taliban and western conservatives.

Hardly surprising. After all, these two groups have more in common than western conservatives and leftist.

The Taliban are closely tied to the Chinese, as is the Biden family and Biden administration.

 

[Pommer]

• Don’t believe all that you read
• Don’t believe the hype
• Don’t buy into fear or scare tactics
• Watch for someone’s agenda
• Look out for subliminal messages
• Follow your own path
• Do your own research
• Listen to your own intuition
• Don’t follow the crowd
• Don’t be afraid to be different

The Dunning-Kruger effect can get in the way of things as some people might over estimate their abilities to effectively do the things on this bullet list.

 

[bèlla]

The Dunning-Kruger effect can get in the way of things as some people might over estimate their abilities to effectively do the things on this bullet list.

You've got to start somewhere.