Taking Questions on the Creation Week

[Jazer]

For the sake of the new guys here (Welcome!), I'll reopen one of my favorite subjects and take questions on the Creation Week, and try to answer to the best of my ability and understanding.

So what does verse 2 mean "without form & void"? Isn't this the same as we see later on in the prophecy books when Isreal is "without form & void"?

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

 

[Incariol]

What day were viruses created?

 

[Jazer]

So, God is not alive?

God is not a part of creation. He existed before the universe began and will exist after the univese is gone.

 

[AV1611VET]

So what does verse 2 mean "without form & void"?

Technically, the earth would have been planoconvex in shape, since it was nothing more than seawater in the hollow of God's hand.

I would say 'without form and void' is an appropriate assessment.

 

[Tiberius]

You think seawater is a void?

 

[AV1611VET]

You think seawater is a void?

Void of light, void of life.

 

[Nostromo]

I'm more confused that a body with a planoconvex shape can be said to be without form.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm more confused that a body with a planoconvex shape can be said to be without form.

Oh, I'm sure you are.

But for those who do understand, planoconvex would be to the earth, in God's eyes, "without form".

And for the Arab record, I said earth, not "a body".

 

[Nostromo]

Oh, I'm sure you are.

But for those who do understand, planoconvex would be to the earth, in God's eyes, "without form".

Because I can't bring myself to accept a contradiction, I don't understand...? You're the one who came up with the planoconvex innovation, I don't recall seeing that in Genesis anywhere.

And for the Arab record, I said earth, not "a body".

And what does the word "body" mean AV? Is the phrase "a body of water" nonsensical?

If we're going to be pedantic about our Arabic, you should have written "Earth", not "earth".

 

[AV1611VET]

Has anyone counted the number of miracles God performed during creation week?

No, but this comes close: 1

 

[Tiberius]

Void of light, void of life.

Please show me Biblical support for the interpretation of "void" in this passage to mean without light or life. Please also show how void could NOT mean "without substance".

But for those who do understand, planoconvex would be to the earth, in God's eyes, "without form".

And now you are telling God how to look at things in order to maintain your worldview.

"I see what you did there," says Ceilingcat.

BTW, I can't help but notice that you failed to answer my early question. Show me one thing in reality that could only have happened if Creation Week had actually taken place. Please make sure that it is something that could not exist if creation week had not occured.

 

[AV1611VET]

What? you need to be a Rhodes scholar to figure this out?

Please show me Biblical support for the interpretation of "void" in this passage to mean without light or life. Please also show how void could NOT mean "without substance".

Q: Give me a scenario of what we have here, so far.
A: We have God, with seawater in the palm of His hand, calling it Earth; we have angels present and cheering, and that is all we have so far. No light, no life (other than God and the angels).
Q: How does God describe this, and why?
A: He calls this mass of seawater 'Earth'; and describes it as formless and void. It is formless, because its intended shape is spherical and, so far, it is planoconvex -- not quite complete. It is void, because it has no light, and contains no life whatsoever. No marine life, no arboreal life, no plant life, no animal life, no mankind.

I would say, in my opinion, that "without form and void" would be the perfect description from God's pov.

Had He not called it "without form", I would have assumed it was round, while it was in the hollow of His hand.

BTW, I can't help but notice that you failed to answer my early question. Show me one thing in reality that could only have happened if Creation Week had actually taken place. Please make sure that it is something that could not exist if creation week had not occured.

And I believe I was asked this about a year ago; and I'll answer with [hopefully] the same answer I did then: embedded age.

 

[Tiberius]

What? you need to be a Rhodes scholar to figure this out?

Nah, I just need a distorted view of reality to reach the same conclusions as you. Unfortunately, my view of reality is quite sound.

Q: Give me a scenario of what we have here, so far.
A: We have God, with seawater in the palm of His hand, calling it Earth; we have angels present and cheering, and that is all we have so far. No light, no life (other than God and the angels).
Q: How does God describe this, and why?
A: He calls this mass of seawater 'Earth'; and describes it as formless and void. It is formless, because its intended shape is spherical and, so far, it is planoconvex -- not quite complete. It is void, because it has no light, and contains no life whatsoever. No marine life, no arboreal life, no plant life, no animal life, no mankind.

I would say, in my opinion, that "without form and void" would be the perfect description from God's pov.

Had He not called it "without form", I would have assumed it was round, while it was in the hollow of His hand.

I asked for Biblical evidence, not your speculation. Quote Bible passages, as you are so fond of doing! I don't want your opinion, I want The Bible!!! Show me the passage where it says that God held the waters in his hand. Show me the passage that shows that God even had hands at that point. Show me the passage that shows there were angels.

And I believe I was asked this about a year ago; and I'll answer with [hopefully] the same answer I did then: embedded age.

Please show me embedded age in reality.

 

[MoonLancer]

God is not a part of creation. He existed before the universe began and will exist after the univese is gone.

Yeah that's logical.

You know what special pleading is right? If I require a creator, then so does the creator of my creator.

 

[AV1611VET]

I asked for Biblical evidence, not your speculation.

1

 

[Phred]

It's the usual. Creationists insist that science must list out every single bit of every single hypothesis in exasperating detail. I could have video of the first self-replication molecules and AVvet would ask for its social security number. But turn the tables and ask for the same detail that we're always hounded for and all we get is a plethora of comic images of "hands" and "shapes" and the like.

That's what happens when you try to take a fairy tale and pretend its real.

 

[Nathan Poe]

What? you need to be a Rhodes scholar to figure this out?

Apparantly not -- you're no scholar of any kind; Rhodes or otherwise.

Q: Give me a scenario of what we have here, so far.

Why would anyone turn to you for the scenario?

A: We have God, with seawater in the palm of His hand, calling it Earth; we have angels present and cheering, and that is all we have so far. No light, no life (other than God and the angels).

Do "we" have this, are are you adding your own details in your usual vain attempts to put yourself on the level of a god?

Q: How does God describe this, and why?
A: He calls this mass of seawater 'Earth'; and describes it as formless and void. It is formless, because its intended shape is spherical and, so far, it is planoconvex -- not quite complete. It is void, because it has no light, and contains no life whatsoever. No marine life, no arboreal life, no plant life, no animal life, no mankind.

I would say, in my opinion, that "without form and void" would be the perfect description from God's pov.

As long as it gives you the chance to play God, eh?

The Bible can take a hike once AV starts speculating.

 

[Tiberius]

1

I asked for Biblical evidence, AV, not real world evidence. Your apple challenge shows that (according to you) creation ex nihilo leaves no physical evidence, but you claim that the evidence you have for it is the Bible. So I am asking you to show me evidence FROM THE BIBLE for what I asked.

Do you understand the difference between reality and the Bible?

 

[AV1611VET]

I asked for Biblical evidence, AV, not real world evidence. Your apple challenge shows that (according to you) creation ex nihilo leaves no physical evidence, but you claim that the evidence you have for it is the Bible. So I am asking you to show me evidence FROM THE BIBLE for what I asked.

I asked for Biblical evidence, not your speculation. Quote Bible passages, as you are so fond of doing! I don't want your opinion, I want The Bible!!! Show me the passage where it says that God held the waters in his hand.

Isaiah 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

Show me the passage that shows that God even had hands at that point.

Isaiah 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

Show me the passage that shows there were angels.

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

[Tiberius]

Isaiah 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

You use this passage to show that God held the water in his hands and that he did indeed have hands to hold the water in.

However, I see nothing that says that this holding of the water in the hands occured at the same moment as Genesis 1:2. Indeed, since God had apparently created the Earth (which was at that time just water) in Genesis 1:1, hadn't God already done the bit where he needed to hold the water before Genesis 1:2? How do you know he was still holding the water at that point?

After all, whenever someone is making something (or created, use whatever word you want to there because you know perfectly well what I mean so don't try to bog it down in minutia), once they've measured it out, they generally don't keep it in the measuring cup!

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

So sons of God = angels? Are there no female angels? Why would angels even need to have gender?

In any case, this shows that they were in existence when God created the stars and that, which was on day 4. Did they exist on day 3, these sons of God?

BTW, you didn't show me embedded age in reality. You see, I asked you to show me something that could only happen if Creation was true. Something that we could not possibly see if creation was false. So, unless you can show me embedded age, it doesn't fit what I was asking for, okay?