Taking Questions on Embedded Age Creation

[chilehed]

Do you believe that?* if not, mind if I don't either?

You're the one who opened the door to this; if God did the embedded age thing then you need to have a coherent explanation for how you know that it didn't happen five seconds ago. So far you're just relying on memories that were placed in your own embedded age, and ignoring the fact that to God a day is as a thousand years.

Given your history, a coherent explanation is not what I expect.

 

[AV1611VET]

You're the one who opened the door to this; if God did the embedded age thing then you need to have a coherent explanation for how you know that it didn't happen five seconds ago. So far you're just relying on memories that were placed in your own embedded age, and ignoring the fact that to God a day is as a thousand years.

Given your history, a coherent explanation is not what I expect.

Speaking of open doors, I'll ask you a second time, since you asked me:

Do you believe God did it five seconds ago? if not, okay with you if I don't either?

 

[dlamberth]

Are you aware that I now prefer saying the earth is as old as God willed it?

Filling the gaps with supposed "miracles". Sheesh!!

 

[AV1611VET]

Filling the gaps with supposed "miracles". Sheesh!!

What gaps?

Gaps come between points A and B.

The miracles came at Point A: the very beginning.

 

[Larniavc]

No embedded age, and Adam couldn't have been given the responsibilities he was given.

Why not? I think God could have done that. Why do you think he couldn’t have?

 

[Larniavc]

That means Adam & Eve had no belly buttons.

But if they had embedded age they would have had navels, surely.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

My main question is... why?

Why is it not possible that what we see in God's creation is what He did and what the Bible says is simply the word of ancient men who did not have a full grasp of the world around them?
Why force God to adhere to the word of men?

 

[driewerf]

Is there an empirical way to distinguish embedded age from real age?

NO

You have just made it much more difficult for anyone to accept Embedded Age Creatonism as true.
Is there any other form of evidence or way to distinguish Embedded Age from real age?

 

[driewerf]

That means Adam & Eve had no belly buttons.

But some rocks have scratching tracers from ancient glaciers.
Some dinosaur bones have teeth traces from ancient fights.
Some parts of the ocean floor have magnetic crystals that align with ancient magnetic field reversals.
Astronomers see remnants of ancient supernovae. And so and so on.
Did god embed all these fake events as age too?
And how would you distinguish embedded events from real events?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

But some rocks have scratching tracers from ancient glaciers.
Some dinosaur bones have teeth traces from ancient fights.
Some parts of the ocean floor have magnetic crystals that align with ancient magnetic field reversals.
Astronomers see remnants of ancient supernovae. And so and so on.
Did god embed all these fake events as age too?
And how would you distinguish embedded events from real events?

I think that's the main nub of it really.
If everything was near clean and pristine, it might be easier for other people to accept his idea.
But when you get examples of what you said, then it starts going into outright deception territory.

 

[chilehed]

Do you believe God did it five seconds ago? if not, okay with you if I don't either?

You're the one who believes he did it, so you're the one who needs to make it make sense.

 

[doubtingmerle]

What gaps?

Gaps come between points A and B.

The miracles came at Point A: the very beginning.

As near as I can tell, the miracle you claim is that God made the world about 6030 years ago and miraculously declared it to be physically x years old, where x is some number much larger than 6030. You won't tell us what you think x is, but hint that it might be close to 4.5 billion. (See My Canoe Challenge)

Sorry, no God can possibly make 6030 equal 4.5 billion, 2 billion or even 10,000. That is impossible, even for God. The basic rules of mathematics are fixed, and cannot possibly be changed.

In no possible world does 6030 = 1,234,567,890. In no possible universe does a planet created 6030 years ago have an age of 1,234,567,890 years.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why not? I think God could have done that. Why do you think he couldn’t have?

Then people would complain that God put two children in a garden, next to a tree that they weren't supposed to eat from, and expected them to obey Him.

They would say it's like putting a child in the kitchen with a cookie jar and saying, "Don't touch."

Incidentally, did you catch the order that Adam was to follow?

First a job, then a wife, then children.

What happened to our morals today?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Suit yourself, Merle.

You won't take my advice and use "fossil layers," so I'm just going to have to pray for you and let it go at that.

I use "fossil record" instead of "fossil layers" because that is the term scientists use. Why should I not be allowed to use the same term that others use? Why do you get to dictate which words I get to use?

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the fossil record refers to:

[The] history of life as documented by fossils, the remains or imprints of organisms from earlier geological periods preserved in sedimentary rock...​

​

In some places, such as the Grand Canyon in Arizona, it is possible to recognize a great thickness of nearly horizontal strata representing the deposition of sediment on the seafloor over many hundreds of millions of years. It is often observed that each layer in such a sequence contains fossils that are distinct from those of the layers that are above and below it. In such sequences of layers in different places, the same, or similar, fossil floras or faunas occur in the identical order. By comparison of overlapping sequences, it is possible to build up a continuous record of faunas or floras that have progressively more in common with present-day life-forms as the top of the sequence is approached. [source: Fossil record | Definition & Facts]​

That is what I mean when I refer to the "fossil record". When you refer to "fossil layers", do you refer to the same thing that the Encyclopedia Britannica refers to when it refers to the "fossil record"? If so, why will you not let me use the same terminology they use for the same thing?

 

[AV1611VET]

But if they had embedded age they would have had navels, surely.

Negative.

A belly button is a scar; and God didn't create the universe with scars.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why is it not possible that what we see in God's creation is what He did ...

Because what you see in God's creation is not the way it was back then.

You're seeing God's creation PLUS six thousand years of death, destruction, and decay.

... and what the Bible says is simply the word of ancient men who did not have a full grasp of the world around them?

Nope.

Then you could project their ignorance into cosmology and come up with all sorts of weird interpretations.

Like the sky being a solid dome, the earth being held up on pill...

... oh, wait!

Why force God to adhere to the word of men?

1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Your "these are the words of men" would then spill over into the New Testament, and you guys would be claiming Paul didn't know what he was talking about.

Any way you look at it, people are good at taking God out of the equation, then the Bible, then our morals, then they get replaced with science, and look at the mess we're in now.

 

[AV1611VET]

You're the one who believes he did it, so you're the one who needs to make it make sense.

Okay.

Have fun skiing.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Because what you see in God's creation is not the way it was back then.

You're seeing God's creation PLUS six thousand years of death, destruction, and decay.



Nope.

Then you could project their ignorance into cosmology and come up with all sorts of weird interpretations.

Like the sky being a solid dome, the earth being held up on pill...

... oh, wait!



1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Your "these are the words of men" would then spill over into the New Testament, and you guys would be claiming Paul didn't know what he was talking about.

Any way you look at it, people are good at taking God out of the equation, then the Bible, then our morals, then they get replaced with science, and look at the mess we're in now.

Except that every time you bring up embedded age or maturity without history, it's only you saying it, not God. The word of a man, versus God.

All of the above is just your own claim, not God's. God's evidence shows over billions of years of stuff, myriad and various and wonderous to look at. You take that and try and force fit it with the Bible.

So you are, in effect, forcing God to adhere to the word of man. Yourself.

 

[AV1611VET]

As near as I can tell, the miracle you claim is that God made the world about 6030 years ago and miraculously declared it to be physically x years old,

Okay.

Have a nice day.

 

[chilehed]

Okay.

Have fun skiing.

Concession noted.

I always have fun skiing, it's the second most fun thing I know how to do!!