Switching churches

Incariol · Mar 24, 2012

I must say, one thing at least Protestantism in the U.S. does well is avoids being home-country ethnicky. Except for the Jesus Camp bizarre ones that confuse God with 'merica.

But yeah. I don't get the whole convert-to-orthodoxy and become a Russian Studies major and brainwash yourself into thinking you like eastern European food. I'd do soooooo much to have Pad Thai or fried rice or hotdogs or lasagna or something like that at coffee hour instead of paste of unidentifiable and the pickled vegetables that makes the line "...who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the first" really easy to believe because I don't like the food all the grannies have been slaving over to serve to everyone and that probably makes me a bad person.

I'm sorry. I just don't like most of these foods.

Knee V · Mar 24, 2012

Incariol said:
I must say, one thing at least Protestantism in the U.S. does well is avoids being home-country ethnicky. Except for the Jesus Camp bizarre ones that confuse God with 'merica.

But yeah. I don't get the whole convert-to-orthodoxy and become a Russian Studies major and brainwash yourself into thinking you like eastern European food. I'd do soooooo much to have Pad Thai or fried rice or hotdogs or lasagna or something like that at coffee hour instead of paste of unidentifiable and the pickled vegetables that makes the line "...who came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the first" really easy to believe because I don't like the food all the grannies have been slaving over to serve to everyone and that probably makes me a bad person.

I'm sorry. I just don't like most of these foods.

I loathe Eastern European food. I find very little of it that is palatable. Pickled watermelon? Seriously? I absolutely love a lot of food from a lot of different parts of the world. But Eastern Europe? Heck to the no.

Fotina · Mar 24, 2012

With all our suffering/persecuted Orthodox Christian brethren in the world, do we really have anything to complain about? If the parish is not Orthodox in the services, prayers, sacraments served, those are the things to be concerned about, not personal comfort/preference, non-liturgical issues, etc. And even if parish is more cultural than spiritual (who can judge?), one can still be truly Orthodox and teach/lead others by example despite difficulty and challenge. Countless martyrs for the faith down to the present day gave their very lives.

This is my own general opinion and not specific to op whose circumstances I don't know.

E.C. · Mar 24, 2012

Dorothea said:
This is also true of the GOC's in the West, especially the ones that I've attended. They are much more mixed and less ethnic. It appears the more ethnic OC's are on the east coast and specifically in the Northeast area of the country. This was confirmed by two priests I talk to...one being my own spiritual father who is of Albanian descent who is also our priest at our parish.

Incidentally, here's Fr. Ted (who's Greek descent) talking about the need to stop this ethnic, jurisdictional dissension and such because it's actually considered heretical, apparently. Here's the short just under 8 min. homily on this subject:

Ethnophyletism - iSermon - Ancient Faith Radio

Its because of this heresy that 1) the Bulgarians were out of Communion with the Orthodox world from 1870-1945 and 2) the Romanians and Jerusalem Patriarchate are not getting along (any updates of that?)

When I went to Spokane for Christmas I attended a GOC church at the recommendation of my parish priest whose OCA. The two were classmates in seminary. That GOC parish had so many Ukrainians in it that while the Liturgy was about 70% English and the rest was more Slavonic than Greek. In fact, the presvytera gave me the ethnic breakdown of the parish: 40% Ukrainian, 10% Russian, 10% Greek, and the rest were mostly converts with an Arab family or two. There was more Slavonic at this GOC parish than my own OCA parish!

I'll just put it very bluntly: putting the future of one's ethnic clan over Orthodoxy is heresy. Whether that clan is Greek, Russian, American, Zulu, or anything in between does not matter. The East Coast mentality also needs to realize that the Orthodox presence in North America goes beyond New England and the Rust Belt.

knee-v said:
I loathe Eastern European food. I find very little of it that is palatable. Pickled watermelon? Seriously? I absolutely love a lot of food from a lot of different parts of the world. But Eastern Europe? Heck to the no.

In the words of one Arab Orthodox from a few hundred years ago about Eastern European food, "Their feasting food is worse than our fasting food!"

Joshua G. · Mar 24, 2012

Fotina said:
With all our suffering/persecuted Orthodox Christian brethren in the world, do we really have anything to complain about? If the parish is not Orthodox in the services, prayers, sacraments served, those are the things to be concerned about, not personal comfort/preference, non-liturgical issues, etc. And even if parish is more cultural than spiritual (who can judge?), one can still be truly Orthodox and teach/lead others by example despite difficulty and challenge. Countless martyrs for the faith down to the present day gave their very lives.

This is my own general opinion and not specific to op whose circumstances I don't know.

I'm sure the poster would agree with you.... if she didn't have a spiritually healthier option down the road.

Joshua G. · Mar 24, 2012

Yeah, I can't say I like Eastern European food all that much... except for their sausages and I say that reservation because I am sure that there are bizarre versions of sausage... they probably pickle it. (pickled watermelon... that's a new one). Well, to each his own!

Fotina · Mar 24, 2012

Joshua G. said:
I'm sure the poster would agree with you.... if she didn't have a spiritually healthier option down the road.

Are the services and sacraments/mysteries at the parish down the road more Orthodox? What makes it spiritually healthier? Many Saints, Martyrs, Ascetics thrived spiritually in deserts, caves, prisons, torture and seeming abandonment, but did not lose sight that God is "in all places and filling all things".

Personal preference does not shape or determine Holy Orthodoxy which is Life-Giving spiritual health. I just think that unfriendly people at a parish is not the same as and should not be confused with Holy Orthodoxy. Of course, one may choose a different Orthodox parish for whatever reason, but the Faith is the same spiritually sound, Life-Giving Holy Orthodox Church available at the first parish.

Dorothea · Mar 24, 2012

knee-v said:
At my son's baptism, three priestmonks had their hands on him while he was being dunked, so... I guess time will tell.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo, yes, indeed....time will tell that he'll be wearing much black in his future.

Dorothea · Mar 24, 2012

knee-v said:
I loathe Eastern European food. I find very little of it that is palatable. Pickled watermelon? Seriously? I absolutely love a lot of food from a lot of different parts of the world. But Eastern Europe? Heck to the no.

I love Greek and Italian food, but it turns out I like Romanian food too without knowing it until a family made their usual yummy food when they would do coffee hour at the time of year they were doing the kolyva for a memorial of their loved one. YUM, YUM, YUM.

Dorothea · Mar 24, 2012

E.C. said:
Its because of this heresy that 1) the Bulgarians were out of Communion with the Orthodox world from 1870-1945 and 2) the Romanians and Jerusalem Patriarchate are not getting along (any updates of that?)

When I went to Spokane for Christmas I attended a GOC church at the recommendation of my parish priest whose OCA. The two were classmates in seminary. That GOC parish had so many Ukrainians in it that while the Liturgy was about 70% English and the rest was more Slavonic than Greek. In fact, the presvytera gave me the ethnic breakdown of the parish: 40% Ukrainian, 10% Russian, 10% Greek, and the rest were mostly converts with an Arab family or two. There was more Slavonic at this GOC parish than my own OCA parish!

OOO!! Was the GOC Holy Trinity?!! That was the church we attended when we lived in Spokane. Fr. Stephen is wonderful, and yes, it was quite mixed, and not many Greeks. Lovely parish.

gracefullamb · Mar 24, 2012

Fotina said:
Are the services and sacraments/mysteries at the parish down the road more Orthodox? What makes it spiritually healthier? Many Saints, Martyrs, Ascetics thrived spiritually in deserts, caves, prisons, torture and seeming abandonment, but did not lose sight that God is "in all places and filling all things".

Personal preference does not shape or determine Holy Orthodoxy which is Life-Giving spiritual health. I just think that unfriendly people at a parish is not the same as and should not be confused with Holy Orthodoxy. Of course, one may choose a different Orthodox parish for whatever reason, but the Faith is the same.

How is going to a church where the members make it clear she is an outsider, she is not one of them and they even call her by a derogatory name instead of her given name when she has tried to be part of the church, spiritually healthy? You lost me on your reasoning here. Such an environment will eventually cause a person to fall away from the faith especially if they have a place just done the road where brethren will treat her with respect.

One can tell their self as much as they like how much worse others had it but that doesn't mean we should actually seeking such an environment, especially if we are not spiritually strong enough to face it. The end will only cause us to fall away from the faith if we are not strong enough to face such trials.

Fotina · Mar 24, 2012

gracefullamb said:
How is going to a church where the members make it clear she is an outsider, she is not one of them and they even call her by a derogatory name instead of her given name when she has tried to be part of the church, spiritually healthy? You lost me on your reasoning here. Such an environment will eventually cause a person to fall away from the faith especially if they have a place just done the road where brethren will treat her with respect.

One can tell their self as much as they like how much worse others had it but that doesn't mean we should actually seeking such an environment, especially if we are not spiritually strong enough to face it. The end will only cause us to fall away from the faith if we are not strong enough to face such trials.

The Life-Giving Mysteries of the Holy Orthodox Church is not diminished or destroyed by human weakness, and sins, personal or corporate. Indeed, it heals them. "Convert-friendly" is not a requirement of Holy Orthodoxy. Orthodox liturgical practice and under a canonical bishop is.

As I said before, one is free to choose a parish for whatever reason, but don't confuse spiritual soundness/health of Holy Orthodoxy with one's preference.

ArmyMatt · Mar 24, 2012

I loathe Eastern European food. I find very little of it that is palatable. Pickled watermelon? Seriously? I absolutely love a lot of food from a lot of different parts of the world. But Eastern Europe? Heck to the no.

some Eastern food is pretty good, although I gotta say I prefer Greek and Arab food to their Slavonic counterparts. and borscht is just nasty.

Anhelyna · Mar 24, 2012

Borscht - mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

ArmyMatt · Mar 24, 2012

Borscht - mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

icky

Incariol · Mar 24, 2012

In summary we need to resolve jurisdictional chaos and have a true United States Orthodox Church so we can have cheeseburgers and onion rings at coffee hour.

Pickled WATERMELON???? Really?!

gurneyhalleck1 · Mar 24, 2012

I like the stuff!

ArmyMatt said:
icky

Joshua G. · Mar 24, 2012

Fotina said:
Are the services and sacraments/mysteries at the parish down the road more Orthodox? What makes it spiritually healthier? Many Saints, Martyrs, Ascetics thrived spiritually in deserts, caves, prisons, torture and seeming abandonment, but did not lose sight that God is "in all places and filling all things".

Personal preference does not shape or determine Holy Orthodoxy which is Life-Giving spiritual health. I just think that unfriendly people at a parish is not the same as and should not be confused with Holy Orthodoxy. Of course, one may choose a different Orthodox parish for whatever reason, but the Faith is the same spiritually sound, Life-Giving Holy Orthodox Church available at the first parish.

I don't know her parish... but if it is as she ays it is where the community never really accepts you and everyone is more concerned with worldly success and such then, yes, it is very possible that the Orthodox Church down the road is a more spiritually healthy place to be. The point IS that the sacraments are the same. But spiritual health depends on a lot of aspects: Sacraments, prayer, community in Christ, filling the mind with Holy things, Holy education. That all matters and contributes to holiness.

Joshua G. · Mar 24, 2012

Fotina said:
The Life-Giving Mysteries of the Holy Orthodox Church is not diminished or destroyed by human weakness, and sins, personal or corporate.

No one said or even implied otherwise.

Indeed, it heals them.

It contributes to healing. It is an essntial part of theosis... but it is not the only part.

"Convert-friendly" is not a requirement of Holy Orthodoxy.

No, but friendly and loving is.

Orthodox liturgical practice and under a canonical bishop is.

That too. I am quite sure the Church down the road has that. The poster never mentioned or implied that she would just not be Orthodox if thre weren't another parish. No one is even hinting at that.

As I said before, one is free to choose a parish for whatever reason, but don't confuse spiritual soundness/health of Holy Orthodoxy with one's preference.

Again, no one but the OP knows exactly what the parish is like. But if it is as she says, then it is not as healthy for her family as it could be. This is not a conversation about personal preference but about personal (if not community) obstacles.

Ortho_Cat · Mar 24, 2012

i am an experimenter...i will try almost everything once. I'm not too picky either...will eat most things, unless it kicks my gagger (makes me feel like i want to throw up)...lol

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