Swingers - Swapping Partners

[LightHorseman]

God gave the moral law. It is even written on our hearts. Rejecting it and overriding it sears one's conscience.

A seared conscience does what it likes and not what God likes...all the time.

You are completely wrong, in that moral choices, while ours to make, if one belongs to Christ, he obeys God despite how his FLESH is craving sin.

I don't think I am wrong.

If one belongs to Christ, one acts in accordance with Christ's commands. It is my contention that it is possible (although, I suspect, rare) for one to "swing" and be in full observance of Christ's commandments.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Jesus commandment to us to treat our neighbour's as our self (which I interpret as the mutual adult informed consent makes something moral) trumps the commandments.

the commandments are intended as a GUIDE, and are not intended as the be all and end all arbiter of all human interaction.

God will be judging the sinner by the 10 Commandments. It's not a mere GUIDE. It's the STANDARD HE'LL BE USING.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Answer me this... if everyone involved consents, whats wrong with it?

God says it is sin. That's good enough. Questioning something that is plainly given is like Satan asking Eve the question, "Did God really say...?"

And God was right. Lawbreaking is cause for death.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Ah, so you support the idea of arbitrary, meaningless rules for no better reason than "but the Bible SAYS!" . Got it.

No, we love God and respect His Word and authority. Nothing God has ordered is arbitrary or meaningless. People who don't know Him are arbitrary and meaningless.

 

[Floatingaxe]

What is informed consent?

I doubt any swinger has it. It's a fallacy.

They obviously are uninformed of the condemnation that is on their heads for undulging in adultery.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I don't think I am wrong.

You are extremely wrong.

If one belongs to Christ, one acts in accordance with Christ's commands.

Do they, now? How can swingers sneak by them?

It is my contention that it is possible (although, I suspect, rare) for one to "swing" and be in full observance of Christ's commandments.

It is IMPOSSIBLE. For one to join one's body to a harlot (male or female), is disrespecting his/her own body, and not loving oneself. Therefore it follows that he/she is not loving others as well.

It is self-hating behaviour. Broken commandment of Jesus Himself.

 

[LightHorseman]

No, we love God and respect His Word and authority. Nothing God has ordered is arbitrary or meaningless. People who don't know Him are arbitrary and meaningless.

Really? So, What did God mean in Eph 5:22-24, and what are you doing presuming to tell me anything?

 

[LightHorseman]

What is informed consent?

I doubt any swinger has it. It's a fallacy.

They obviously are uninformed of the condemnation that is on their heads for undulging in adultery.

Why? Concrete example of harm caused by the activity?

 

[Floatingaxe]

Why? Concrete example of harm caused by the activity?

Self-respect is eroded. They keep secrets for fear their children would see it for the inane and sick behaviour that it is.

The worst harm is done to their souls, Marred with sin as long as they thumb their noses at God and His call for holiness in living, they turn off their consciences and ignore the inner call for repentance and therefore miss the one thing they need to remain in the body of Christ: FORGIVENESS.

God calls such people REPROBATES. They forfeit their salvation for judgment instead.

I think brimstone causes harm, don't you? Even worse than the "concrete" you requested!

 

[Zecryphon]

Jesus commandment to us to treat our neighbour's as our self (which I interpret as the mutual adult informed consent makes something moral) trumps the commandments.

the commandments are intended as a GUIDE, and are not intended as the be all and end all arbiter of all human interaction.

So your desires trump the commandments? Interesting. The commandments as a guide is only one of their functions. They are also God's absolute statements regarding how people are to behave in relation to Him and in relation to each other. If you think Jesus telling you to treat others as you'd like to be treated is a license for engaging in amoral sexual conduct, then you have no idea what Jesus was talking about. Nowhere did Jesus say that you are to engage in sex with someone you are not married to, but since that is your position, why don't you back it up with scripture?

 

[Zecryphon]

Ah, so you support the idea of arbitrary, meaningless rules for no better reason than "but the Bible SAYS!" . Got it.

How is that any worse than your reasoning which is, "it's okay because I say so?"

 

[Zecryphon]

Answer me this... if everyone involved consents, whats wrong with it?

What's wrong with it is that it violates God's rules for how you are to behave as a follower of His. You're only looking at this situation from the standpoint of how it affects you, you're not looking at it from how your behaviors affect God. Sin hurts God. But why should that matter to someone like you who obviously only lives his life according to what YOU consider good and morally right? It shouldn't and as we've all seen, it doesn't matter.

 

[Zecryphon]

What God does not consent to are acts that hurt people against their will.

Hence "Love thy neighbour as yourself" is the greatest commandment.

Look, you're welcome to follow the Bible blindly without giving an ounce of rational thought to what it REALLY means, I won't try to stop you. But be aware that one of the things it tells you is to not be haughty and arogant, which is how you sound when you tell other people that they are wrong without considering their point of view.

You are wrong. Love thy neighbor is not the greatest commandment. Jesus said it Himself:

Mat 22:37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Loving thy neighbor is second, loving God is first. Still think you're honoring God by loving your neighbor in a way God never intended?

 

[Floatingaxe]

It's not even love. It's lust. Love doesn't look like that...

 

[Zecryphon]

Really? So, What did God mean in Eph 5:22-24, and what are you doing presuming to tell me anything?

Why don't you tell us, since you're the one who clearly understands the scriptures and we don't? Are you really going to use those verses to support swinging? If so I can't wait to hear the "logic" behind this one.

 

[Zecryphon]

It's not even love. It's lust. Love doesn't look like that...

Oh I know that. But we're not dealing with what God has revealed love to be, we're dealing with LH's declaration of what love is, and as we've all seen that trumps anything God could possibly come up with.

 

[david_x]

I don't think I am wrong.

If one belongs to Christ, one acts in accordance with Christ's commands. It is my contention that it is possible (although, I suspect, rare) for one to "swing" and be in full observance of Christ's commandments.

I must strongly disagree, Light. If one belongs to Christ, he has not/ will not always act in accordance with Christ's commands. I would point to David to prove this. He was a 'man after God's own heart' yet he did trip up late in life.

 

[LightHorseman]

How is that any worse than your reasoning which is, "it's okay because I say so?"

No, Jesus said it. Its OK if everyone involved consents.

 

[LightHorseman]

Why don't you tell us, since you're the one who clearly understands the scriptures and we don't? Are you really going to use those verses to support swinging? If so I can't wait to hear the "logic" behind this one.

Oops. I meant 1 Timothy 2:12

 

[LightHorseman]

I must strongly disagree, Light. If one belongs to Christ, he has not/ will not always act in accordance with Christ's commands. I would point to David to prove this. He was a 'man after God's own heart' yet he did trip up late in life.

Perhpas this time I spoke in haste. Yes, it certainly is possible for even the most committed Christian to make mistakes and not act in accordance with Christ's commands... but if I may clarify, I meant it is impossible to act in accordance with Christ's commands (i.e. love thy neighbour as thyself) and do anything immoral or wrong.