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Swingers - Swapping Partners

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chingchang

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I don't see why people would take the marriage vows to be faithful unto only each other if they wanted to be "swingers"? Why get married at all then?

"Faithful" to one another may mean all kinds of things. "Faithful" does not equal "sexual exclusivity". I can be faithful to my wife in all kinds of things...only one of those being sexual. Most of us make that vow...which we all agree implies sexual exclusivity...but that is not what it means. "Why get married at all...?" People get married for all kinds of reasons.

I see this swinger lifestyle as partly due to that thing called a "mid life crisis" which is a realization that one really is mortal and going to die or that their youth is over.

That doesn't explain the 20 and 30-something swingers. "Mid-life-crisis" is something that happens after 40.


Huge difference between "cheating" and "swinging". Cheating involves betrayal.

I'd also say that very few couples find this experience of swapping a happy one. People are jealous creatures, even secular ones.

The jealous ones don't swing...and if they do they don't for long. The divorce rate is higher among non-swinging married couples.

The grass is always greener on the other side... or is it? People are not only basically jealous creatures but they are also selfish creatures and many also want to constantly test God by going outside of certain boundaries.

You do?


Surely this has happened to swingers...but generally does not.

People shouldn't live their lives only by what the Bible says or doesn't say. We do have common sense too.

Absolutely! But...common sense is relative. It may be "common sense" to you not to swing...but to someone else it swinging may be an awesome thing.

Hugs,
CC
 
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Floatingaxe

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Hey chingy...

Do you swing?

Do you know Jesus Christ as your Saviour?

Because Christians know that such immoral behaviour separates them from the Lord they love and are supposed to obey. It's a no-brainer.

So, why do you argue for such sinful ideas?

 
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HuntingMan

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oh for pities sake.
PLEASE tell me that professing christians ARENT claiming that we are allowed to swap wives.
Im hanging on a thread here with this forum anyway, desiring to just write it off entirely and move on....this will just be one more nail in the coffin.
 
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wkonwtrtom

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So then I take it that you follow all the dietary laws of the OT? Do you also forbid yourself from doing anything that would be "unhealthy" or even dangerous? Do you drive? 50k people a year die in accidents in just the US every year. I would say that is a pretty dangerous or "unhealthy" thing to do. It is unhealthy to go to a hospital. It is unhealthy to shake someone's hand or to be near anyone that sneezes. Do you hold up in a sterile room and avoid people? I doubt it.

If you hold to one OT law and believe that God requires you to do so, you are then subject to them all. You can not pick and choose which ones you want to follow. Even Paul said that. And if you choose to hold to the law as your guide then the grace of salvation is null and void to you. Is that what you choose? Not me.

God has shown us the way to His freedom - grace and salvation. Paul was also clear that some things are sin only to those that belive it is sin but not to those who walk in a greater freedom. Some walk in a greater freedom because they do not believe that Augustine had it right concerning sex. And they believe that the church settled in on his ideas about sex since then rather than what the scripture say or do not say about sex. Unfortunately, too many Christians are complacent and just will not look at the history of where some of these dogmatic doctrines have come from, like the church tradition of restrictions on sex and their toxic effects.

It is easy to continue to argue using the standard church line and fear about what "could" happen and how "unhealthy" or "unsafe" sex is without using the same logic on anything else in file. The church has been anti-sex for so long that no one wants to even open their eyes to the possibility that what they are taught may just be wrong. I challenge anyone that really wants to understand this issue to read Divine Sex and to seriously do the research into sex throughout church history. Unless you are afraid of finding out that what you think is Biblical may only be biblianity.
 
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HuntingMan

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OH brother...not that silly argument again.
We gentiles DO NOT FOLLOW THE WHOLE LAW.
ACts 15 shows us what the gentile church was to follow concerning the law and DIETARY laws WERENT included...not to mention that Christ declared ALL foods CLEAN when He said NOTHING we take into our bodies defiles it.

 
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wkonwtrtom

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Hunting,

Acts 15 was Paul telling a specific group, harrassed by the "judiazers", to do a few things to get them off their backs about keeping the whole law. LAter in Romans 14 and 1Cor8 he goes on to say something comepletely different. So either Acts 15 is for a specific instance and not the whole body of believers or God and Paul changed their minds. Many see the Acts 15 as a compromise needed to help believers crack the wall of separation between the Jewish believers and the Gentile believers and make them one body rather than dividing the church over non-issues.
 
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Nadiine

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ANd hunting, as I have posted previously, the word "fornication" has to do with sexual idol worship with temple prostitutes.
The word holds several meanings, not JUST this one wkon.

& in the contexts, it's VERY clear that it means ALL conduct
outside the marital bed.

Let's NOT forget the other many verses that spell out that
MERE LUST for another other than one's spouse is adultery.
Do you think that just maybe taking it to the final stages of
fulfilling that lust thru sex might not be considered adultery too?


Then lets not for get the verse:
Hebrews 13:4
Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled;
but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

ANY SEXUAL CONTACT outside the marriage is sexual sin -
whether fornication or adultery. And this law was carried out
in Israel very strictly!
Remember how Jesus was accused by the Pharisees of being
illegitimate, becuz Mary wasn't married when she gave birth
to Jesus.

Further proof of the expected virginity of the unmarried


Then we have these:
1 Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality,
let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

1 Corinthians 7:9
But if they do not have self-control, let them marry;
for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Again, context of ALL scripture spells out the sexual sins.
If lust, sensuality, lasciviousness are condemned, then
certainly taking the lustful desire to their final fruition
of having sex is sinful - outside the marital bed which
is the only lawful place within the covenant of marriage.

Two become one.

So that's a lovely misinformed statement, but it's not true.

Which is very alarming since your member title reads "Pastor".
 
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holo

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OH brother...not that silly argument again.
We gentiles DO NOT FOLLOW THE WHOLE LAW.
Well, that's the contradiction right there...

The only thing Jesus said about the jots and tittles of the law that you so conveniently don't think you're bound to follow, was that they should never pass. Either you're under the law, or you're not. If you're under the law you're under the entire law, as Paul said. If you yourself are being picky about certain commandments from the law, how can you judge others who do the same?
 
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one11

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I thought Paul was saying "if you live by the law you will be judged by the law". I'm not really sure if there is a difference here. If there is or isn't a difference, could someone explain this to me better so I understand.
 
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Nadiine

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And the unsaved ARE under the full measure of the law becuz
they do not have Christ's sacrifice to cover their sin.
We're either under the "Law of Christ", or "the Law & the prophets".
Nothing passed from the law; Christ fulfilled the penalty of the law
(thru His obedience as a man on earth) in man's place.
So ONLY those accepting His fulfillment of the law & penalty (2nd
death) to cover over them (His righteousness over us)
are under Christ rather than law.

But people mistake that to mean, the OT is obsolete & gone.
False. ALL the moral laws continue on today; they are love
towards others.
IF we love others, we won't rape, steal, lie, cheat, extort,
kidnap, fornicate, adulterate, covet, abuse, etc. etc.

If the law were gone, we could live in all the immorality we wanted.

Sadly, people just don't choose to get the truth about how the
law operates; what changed & what remains.
They'de rather make easy blanket claims in ignorance that
"we aren't under law" without understanding that we ARE under
the moral code of that law & the lost ARE under the law becuz
Christ hasn't covered their sin....

but... oh well
 
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HuntingMan

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ANd hunting, as I have posted previously, the word "fornication" has to do with sexual idol worship with temple prostitutes.
No, friend, it is NOT about temple prostitutes as some fallaciously claim to keep from accepting the truth.
In SOME cases in scripture fornication exists alongside and as part of idol worship....in SOME cases there is NO MENTION of idolatry but the word fornciation STILL is used.

So Im afraid you are wrong.
Forniation/porneia/ILLICIT SEX can be partaken of as part of an idolatrous ritual....or Forniation/porneia/ILLICIT SEX can be simply a man taking his FATHERS WIFE as his own.....or it can be ANY number of other ILLICIT sexual acts outside the lawful union of a MAN and a WOMAN who are covenanted as husband and wife for a lifetime.

 
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HuntingMan

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Well, thats an admission that you dont understand Christs words right there....

I GAVE the scriptures that PROVE that we dont follow the whole law, friend.
Christ never said that we gentiles would follow the letter of the law and *IF* He had His purpose here to begin a NEW covenant would have been nullified, now wouldnt it.

The law EXISTS, it has not disappeared from view, that does not mean we are UNDER it.

And Holo...its not ME you are faulting, Im afraid...it is GODS WORD and our LORD Jesus that you have to be faulting here in what you are claiming about His words.


If you yourself are being picky about certain commandments from the law, how can you judge others who do the same?
Pick up a bible.
Read Acts 15.
If, when you are done, you still need to ask this again, then there is nothing more I can do for you.
YOure argument is with Christ and Paul, Im afraid.
 
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HuntingMan

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It doesnt matter that they were being harassed.
Are you claiming that if *I* were being harassed in the same way that the rules would be different ?
Preposterous.
Acts 15 was given in response TO something specific...as MOST instruction and law typically is...that doesnt nullify that it is for the GENTILES who come to God...just as the text shows.
Unless you can PROVE that it does not apply blanketly then you are wasting our time, quite frankly.
What you will HAVE to provide is something AFTERWARD in the NT showing that we ARE to obey the whole law.
Can you provide anything because I just provided a list that shows that we ARENT under law....

Im not interested in how some 'see' Acts 15. I have eyes and a mind...I can read it myself and SEE what it says.
Where the Mosaic Law is concerned, there is little we gentiles need to concern ourselves with....fornication...ILLICIT sex....being one of those things we DO have to obey as proven by 1 Cor 5. And that isnt because we are UNDER law. It is because Gods will is not, even under THIS covenant, that men and woman should be having sex with anyone other than their lawful spouse...as proven by 1 Cor 7:1-2.
 
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HuntingMan

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..
 
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chingchang

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Hey chingy...

Hey floaty...I'm going "bold" too.

Do you swing?

No.

Do you know Jesus Christ as your Saviour?

Yes.

Because Christians know that such immoral behaviour separates them from the Lord they love and are supposed to obey. It's a no-brainer.

I agree that sin separates us from God. I also agree that if we love him we will obey him. I disagree with your assessment that this behavior is...in all cases...sinful. I can...and have to some degree in this thread...build a relatively strong Biblical case for this behavior not being sinful in all cases. To you...I am most confident...it would be sinful behavior. You would have to violate your own conscious to engage is "disgusting" swinging sex.
So, why do you argue for such sinful ideas?

I'm not advocating swinging...as some of my other posts have stated. I'm just not going to point at it and call it sin because I'm not convinced it is in all cases. I truly believe that it is possible for Christians to engage in this activity without sinning. Possible is the key word. I'm 100% sure I can't convince you of that at this point in your spiritual life...and I'm 95% sure I'll never be able to convince you of this. I think most believers get puffed-up with the little wisdom of God that they aquire...and they stop seeking. I used to believe what you believe...but I continued to seek and I have grown spiritually. I'll call certain things sin that are very obvious. But...otherwise those "sinful behaviors" have to fail the "royal law"-test before I'll call them sin. Because I believe strongly that swinging is not adultery...it falls under the less-obvious potentially sinful behaviors category. I do think it is possible for swinging to pass the "royal law"-test and that is why I've arrived at where I am on this topic.

Hugs Sister!
CC
 
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Nadiine

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You haven't built ANY case whatsoever.

Denial isn't a case, it's rejection of what the bible teaches
clearly. & it's adultery.

Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her
hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
 
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chingchang

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You haven't built ANY case whatsoever.

Denial isn't a case, it's rejection of what the bible teaches
clearly. & it's adultery.

If you keep repeating that...people will actually start to believe it. Repeat after me "The Bible I hold in my hand is the inerrant Word of God".

CC
 
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